Roe v Wade is on deck

[Jimmy Higgins]

You didn't show me evidence they lied. You said the candidates said Roe was settled law. Yes, it was. And now it's overturned. There is no lie.

If they consider it settled law they shouldn't be changing it.

Metaphor is pretty much pulling a 'definition of is' maneuver here.

 

[Toni]

Speaking of fuck, where the fuck were we? Oh, TomC will like this one, the Texas AG says he'll defend any new anti-sodomy law in front of SCOTUS. Man, the elimination of legal abortion was supposed to the tragedy, but it seems like this SCOTUS wants to make it the tip of the iceberg.

And most sodomy is committed by heterosexual couples.

Then we have this... Das Internetz interwebbingz could betray women online.

An investigation by Lockdown Privacy, the maker of an app that blocks online tracking, found that Planned Parenthood’s web scheduler can share information with a variety of third parties, including Google, Facebook, TikTok and Hotjar, a tracking tool that says it helps companies understand how customers behave. These outside companies receive data including IP addresses, approximate Zip codes and service selections, which privacy experts worry could be valuable to state governments looking to prosecute abortions.

So, now a decision on abortion is pulling third party tech companies into the web.

It doesn't surprise me--good website design these days means websites that can schedule things will provide a means of exporting the schedule to the common calendars. It's also common to have buttons to share various content with social media platforms. Thus the mere existence of such links does not prove anything evil is afoot.

Sure and mostly it’s innocuous. But now it’s definitely no longer so innocuous. Women will be followed, tracked to try to discern whether they might be pregnant and what type of care they might be seeking.

We know that the software is already tracking our purchase, what we like on social media. Once a coworker asked me what my favorite book was, over the company only email server. The next day, lots of ads for that same, unfortunately obscure book in my email, on my Amazon acct, on my Facebook acct. I wasn’t using any of those accts —didn’t use them at work, except on break maybe my personal email acct. I had no internet browsers open.

If you think that there are not malevolents who will track a woman’s purchase of period products —and home pregnancy test purchases—and her medical appointments—you’re very naive. They can and will access period trackers, which some use to help them plan around this ongoing event. In fact, Missouri has already accessed and tracked Planned Parenthood patient’s periods. https://www.salon.com/2019/11/02/mi...-periods-during-governors-anti-abortion-push/

Somehow I don’t think any man would feel very sanguine about his personal purchases or medical appointments or information being tracked by any state.

Ironically, conservatives oppose expansion of public payer medical care because they fear the state’s intrusion into private medical care and information. They know themselves so well.

 

[TomC]

Interesting that you see yourself as a lot less judgmental than you used to be. When you had skin in the game, you were enthusiastically looking for an abortion fir the girl. After she miscarried (if a pregnancy had existed), it was easy to change your mind about abortion.

It’s a nice touch that while you both were ‘enthusiastic’ it was ‘mostly her’ since you are gay, although closeted at the time.

This is the kind of dishonest post I've come to expect from you.

And feminist Wokesters in general.
Tom

What's dishonest about it? She's calling you out on hypocrisy, that's all.

Every single sentence in her post was b.s.

About things I have actually discussed on this forum.
Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

Inconsistency is part of every ideological position, and should be. OTOH, one should modify one's position if supporting it causes one to be compelled to support untenable ideological stances. One can always deny having changed positions. In the present environment, one can even hold an untenable position and claim that one is being misunderstood, et al.

'Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds', Emerson said. Wilde seconded him. Both claimed that stance, but were misunderstood.

I disagree. Consistency is the holy grail of the seeker of truth.

Inconsistency is a weed in the garden, or perhaps a creeping vine strangling the flowers, and it's sources and roots are to be regularly rid from the space with doubt and the understanding that consistency is attainable even if it may never actually be attained.

Real inconsistency is either contradiction, and mere apparent inconsistency belies poor understanding of the subject, the former necessarily implying the ability to falsify any truth or prove as true any falsehood.

Inconsistency allows any system of thought in which it is tolerated on the long term to descend into proving any statement of the system.

And even the apparent inconsistency makes for a failure of understanding that, in a similar way, will allow a bug to exist in the semantic structure that yields much the same result.

Such should, as a result, never sit well.

This is not to say that inconsistency must always be immediately addressed. Indeed usually it cannot, else it would have been earlier. It is foolish to uproot some thing in one's worldview because it is a little weedy if by in large the landscape is healthier for it than without it at the moment.

Often, one can focus on the contradictions, cognitive dissonances, that spin out of the inconsistency first, to accept that the obvious and problematic contradiction is an artifact of the former, but eventually one must address the underlying failure of understanding.

Then, I am biased. Inconsistency for me means the system will not function, the sensor will not read, the circuit will not tell the truth I wish to find out about. You can write a book where things are inconsistent, sure, but if you make a functional universe with an inconsistency, you better watch out what happens when that "inconsistency" gets dereferenced, and the system starts executing out of the BSS section.

Inconsistency is perhaps a hobgoblin of the small minded writer, it is equally the very real lich standing in the path of the higher mind, as well, the mind which would not contemplate gods but rather BE a god.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It doesn't need to be evil, it is interconnected. That is the point. What a person thought was just one data point on one website, is actually spanning several sites, with the weakest link being any company that gives up the pipeline to authorities.

The existence of the links doesn't make people use them. The links are only problematic if the data is exported without the person asking for it.

When I schedule something and click the export to Google Calendar that is a deliberate, knowing action on my part and I wouldn't do it if there was some reason I didn't want the information exported. Now, if they are silently sharing data that's quite another matter. The mere existence of the link doesn't say which case it is.

 

[Toni]

Interesting that you see yourself as a lot less judgmental than you used to be. When you had skin in the game, you were enthusiastically looking for an abortion fir the girl. After she miscarried (if a pregnancy had existed), it was easy to change your mind about abortion.

It’s a nice touch that while you both were ‘enthusiastic’ it was ‘mostly her’ since you are gay, although closeted at the time.

This is the kind of dishonest post I've come to expect from you.

And feminist Wokesters in general.
Tom

What's dishonest about it? She's calling you out on hypocrisy, that's all.

Every single sentence in her post was b.s.

About things I have actually discussed on this forum.
Tom

It was insensitive of me to bring up what was a painful experience in an attempt to question your claim about being less judgmental now compared to the past.

Miscarriages are painful in ways that last for many years. Speaking from experience here.
And as a witness to the pain of friends and family who have lost a pregnancy.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

A thought on the "justices" and lying:

I get the strong impression that they carefully said things to make people believe they would let Roe v Wade stand, but avoided actually saying so because they didn't intend to. Truth but far from the whole truth.

 

[Toni]

It doesn't need to be evil, it is interconnected. That is the point. What a person thought was just one data point on one website, is actually spanning several sites, with the weakest link being any company that gives up the pipeline to authorities.

The existence of the links doesn't make people use them. The links are only problematic if the data is exported without the person asking for it.

When I schedule something and click the export to Google Calendar that is a deliberate, knowing action on my part and I wouldn't do it if there was some reason I didn't want the information exported. Now, if they are silently sharing data that's quite another matter. The mere existence of the link doesn't say which case it is.

Of course your information is being silently shared! You MAY be computer savvy enough and careful enough that it doesn’t happen to you but I would not risk a visit from the reproduction police over anyone’s success at stopping their private information from being shared.

 

[Toni]

A thought on the "justices" and lying:

I get the strong impression that they carefully said things to make people believe they would let Roe v Wade stand, but avoided actually saying so because they didn't intend to. Truth but far from the whole truth.

They are lawyers and chose their words carefully. I don’t think they fooled anyone but they did provide plausible deniability to senators who wanted that cover.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We know that the software is already tracking our purchase, what we like on social media. Once a coworker asked me what my favorite book was, over the company only email server. The next day, lots of ads for that same, unfortunately obscure book in my email, on my Amazon acct, on my Facebook acct. I wasn’t using any of those accts —didn’t use them at work, except on break maybe my personal email acct. I had no internet browsers open.

That's strange--I would expect that sort of thing if you had used something like Gmail or Hotmail to read the e-mail but it sounds like you were using an e-mail client.

If you think that there are not malevolents who will track a woman’s purchase of period products —and home pregnancy test purchases—and her medical appointments—you’re very naive. They can and will access period trackers, which some use to help them plan around this ongoing event. In fact, Missouri has already accessed and tracked Planned Parenthood patient’s periods. https://www.salon.com/2019/11/02/mi...-periods-during-governors-anti-abortion-push/

I'm not denying there can be malicious tracking. Note, however, that your example isn't web based at all--that's an investigator with access to their medical records.

 

[Toni]

We know that the software is already tracking our purchase, what we like on social media. Once a coworker asked me what my favorite book was, over the company only email server. The next day, lots of ads for that same, unfortunately obscure book in my email, on my Amazon acct, on my Facebook acct. I wasn’t using any of those accts —didn’t use them at work, except on break maybe my personal email acct. I had no internet browsers open.

That's strange--I would expect that sort of thing if you had used something like Gmail or Hotmail to read the e-mail but it sounds like you were using an e-mail client.

If you think that there are not malevolents who will track a woman’s purchase of period products —and home pregnancy test purchases—and her medical appointments—you’re very naive. They can and will access period trackers, which some use to help them plan around this ongoing event. In fact, Missouri has already accessed and tracked Planned Parenthood patient’s periods. https://www.salon.com/2019/11/02/mi...-periods-during-governors-anti-abortion-push/

I'm not denying there can be malicious tracking. Note, however, that your example isn't web based at all--that's an investigator with access to their medical records.

If the state can gain access to physical records, it is infinitely easier to access information from medical records stored in line.

 

[TomC]

Interesting that you see yourself as a lot less judgmental than you used to be. When you had skin in the game, you were enthusiastically looking for an abortion fir the girl. After she miscarried (if a pregnancy had existed), it was easy to change your mind about abortion.

It’s a nice touch that while you both were ‘enthusiastic’ it was ‘mostly her’ since you are gay, although closeted at the time.

This is the kind of dishonest post I've come to expect from you.

And feminist Wokesters in general.
Tom

What's dishonest about it? She's calling you out on hypocrisy, that's all.

Every single sentence in her post was b.s.

About things I have actually discussed on this forum.
Tom

It was insensitive of me to bring up what was a painful experience in an attempt to question your claim about being less judgmental now compared to the past.

Miscarriages are painful in ways that last for many years. Speaking from experience here.
And as a witness to the pain of friends and family who have lost a pregnancy.

I appreciate that very much.

Part of what makes me so hot under the collar here is this. We're both from big Catholic families. We know a pregnancy when we see one.

Part of what made our situation difficult was that s/he was our parents first grandchild. That's a BFD! That was a problem itself. We were both from the kind of family that adopts kids in, not out.

She and I stayed close friends up until her death a year or so ago. This problem, losing babies, was a lifelong issue for her. Years later, when she and her husband wanted to start a family, it kept happening. Over and over. Get pregnant, Yay!
Lose baby, get depressed.

At one point she mentioned that she might get her tubes tied. She and Duke wanted a child. But the regular pattern of pregnancy and miscarriage was horrible.

There's a ton of back story to my rather emotional responses on issues like sex and reproduction. I realize that I'm just a man, and a faggot to boot. Ex-Catholic. I'm an easy target for bullshit.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Interesting that you see yourself as a lot less judgmental than you used to be. When you had skin in the game, you were enthusiastically looking for an abortion fir the girl. After she miscarried (if a pregnancy had existed), it was easy to change your mind about abortion.

It’s a nice touch that while you both were ‘enthusiastic’ it was ‘mostly her’ since you are gay, although closeted at the time.

This is the kind of dishonest post I've come to expect from you.

And feminist Wokesters in general.
Tom

What's dishonest about it? She's calling you out on hypocrisy, that's all.

Every single sentence in her post was b.s.

About things I have actually discussed on this forum.
Tom

It was insensitive of me to bring up what was a painful experience in an attempt to question your claim about being less judgmental now compared to the past.

Miscarriages are painful in ways that last for many years. Speaking from experience here.
And as a witness to the pain of friends and family who have lost a pregnancy.

I appreciate that very much.

Part of what makes me so hot under the collar here is this. We're both from big Catholic families. We know a pregnancy when we see one.

Part of what made our situation difficult was that s/he was our parents first grandchild. That's a BFD! That was a problem itself. We were both from the kind of family that adopts kids in, not out.

She and I stayed close friends up until her death a year or so ago. This problem, losing babies, was a lifelong issue for her. Years later, when she and her husband wanted to start a family, it kept happening. Over and over. Get pregnant, Yay!
Lose baby, get depressed.

At one point she mentioned that she might get her tubes tied. She and Duke wanted a child. But the regular pattern of pregnancy and miscarriage was horrible.

There's a ton of back story to my rather emotional responses on issues like sex and reproduction. I realize that I'm just a man, and a faggot to boot. Ex-Catholic. I'm an easy target for bullshit.
Tom

Neither your religious views nor your sexual orientation make you a target, at least not here.

I'm not entirely certain who the 'we're both from big Catholic families' is but in case you mean me, I'm not Catholic or ex-Catholic.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

A thought on the "justices" and lying:

I get the strong impression that they carefully said things to make people believe they would let Roe v Wade stand, but avoided actually saying so because they didn't intend to. Truth but far from the whole truth.

Except Kavanaugh flat out said Roe was Stare Decisis. Nothing in the US changed in the past few years to put that into jeopardy. So when he signs off on the decision that says the case isn't Stare Decisis, that is a fucking lie.

Gorsuch pulls up a little comparatively, but ultimately, he said he stood with the law of the land. His statement that he viewed it as the law simply as a statement that Roe was in effect would be the dumbest fucking statement to make.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Interesting that you see yourself as a lot less judgmental than you used to be. When you had skin in the game, you were enthusiastically looking for an abortion fir the girl. After she miscarried (if a pregnancy had existed), it was easy to change your mind about abortion.

It’s a nice touch that while you both were ‘enthusiastic’ it was ‘mostly her’ since you are gay, although closeted at the time.

This is the kind of dishonest post I've come to expect from you.

And feminist Wokesters in general.
Tom

What's dishonest about it? She's calling you out on hypocrisy, that's all.

Every single sentence in her post was b.s.

About things I have actually discussed on this forum.
Tom

It was insensitive of me to bring up what was a painful experience in an attempt to question your claim about being less judgmental now compared to the past.

Miscarriages are painful in ways that last for many years. Speaking from experience here.
And as a witness to the pain of friends and family who have lost a pregnancy.

I appreciate that very much.

Part of what makes me so hot under the collar here is this. We're both from big Catholic families. We know a pregnancy when we see one.

Part of what made our situation difficult was that s/he was our parents first grandchild. That's a BFD! That was a problem itself. We were both from the kind of family that adopts kids in, not out.

She and I stayed close friends up until her death a year or so ago. This problem, losing babies, was a lifelong issue for her. Years later, when she and her husband wanted to start a family, it kept happening. Over and over. Get pregnant, Yay!
Lose baby, get depressed.

At one point she mentioned that she might get her tubes tied. She and Duke wanted a child. But the regular pattern of pregnancy and miscarriage was horrible.

That sounds very personal and another reason why the State should have no say in the private reproductive lives of women.

 

[TomC]

Neither your religious views nor your sexual orientation make you a target, at least not here.

I know.
It's religious views falsely attributed to me, despite all my posts, that makes me a target. But my orientation doesn't help. I'm not just male, I'm a gay male. Easy to dismiss my opinions, whether you're an Evangelical Christian or a Wokester.

I'm not entirely certain who the 'we're both from big Catholic families' is but in case you mean me, I'm not Catholic or ex-Catholic.

No.
I was talking about Judy and me.
I didn't realize that you'd find that hard to understand.
But, obviously you do.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Neither your religious views nor your sexual orientation make you a target, at least not here.

I know.
It's religious views falsely attributed to me, despite all my posts, that makes me a target. But my orientation doesn't help. I'm not just male, I'm a gay male. Easy to dismiss my opinions, whether you're an Evangelical Christian or a Wokester.

I'm not entirely certain who the 'we're both from big Catholic families' is but in case you mean me, I'm not Catholic or ex-Catholic.

No.
I was talking about Judy and me.
I didn't realize that you'd find that hard to understand.
But, obviously you do.
Tom

Gee, and you wonder why you feel like people are always targeting you for being needlessly snippy.

 

[Toni]

Neither your religious views nor your sexual orientation make you a target, at least not here.

I know.
It's religious views falsely attributed to me, despite all my posts, that makes me a target. But my orientation doesn't help. I'm not just male, I'm a gay male. Easy to dismiss my opinions, whether you're an Evangelical Christian or a Wokester.

I'm not entirely certain who the 'we're both from big Catholic families' is but in case you mean me, I'm not Catholic or ex-Catholic.

No.
I was talking about Judy and me.
I didn't realize that you'd find that hard to understand.
But, obviously you do.
Tom

I'm not certain why you don't recognize that what you write is sometimes ambiguous--and maybe do some editing.

 

[prideandfall]

Neither your religious views nor your sexual orientation make you a target, at least not here.

I know.
It's religious views falsely attributed to me, despite all my posts, that makes me a target. But my orientation doesn't help. I'm not just male, I'm a gay male. Easy to dismiss my opinions, whether you're an Evangelical Christian or a Wokester.

I'm not entirely certain who the 'we're both from big Catholic families' is but in case you mean me, I'm not Catholic or ex-Catholic.

No.
I was talking about Judy and me.
I didn't realize that you'd find that hard to understand.
But, obviously you do.
Tom

I'm not certain why you don't recognize that what you write is sometimes ambiguous--and maybe do some editing.

if regressive conservatives don't make their arguments ambiguous and poorly worded, how else are they supposed to backtrack and act all offended that you just didn't understand them after their position is thoroughly destroyed by even the barest glimmer of intellectual scrutiny?

it's not an accident. it's a tactic.

 

[TomC]

I'm not certain why you don't recognize that what you write is sometimes ambiguous--and maybe do some editing.

While discussing my girlfriend and my pregnancy, around 1980, I used the word "we".

You thought that was ambiguous. Maybe I meant you in that "we". Perhaps I meant you and me, not Judy and me?

Seriously?

Dayum!

Tom