RussiaGate

[barbos]

The significance of "Russian made" was that the phone is rare in the US and obviously came from Russia, where Yotaphones were designed and customized.

What do you mean come from Russia? I believe they were officially sold in US, hence they had never spent a day in Russia. Same as iPhones, they don't come from US.

The "fucker" in the Trump Organization who used that phone was almost certainly using it quite a bit for communications with Russia,

Why? because he had a russion phone? What about chinese made phones? Have you looked into that conspiracy?
Do you understand that russian phone BS follows the same script they used in DNS log? Find some link to word russian and shout "Russians!!!!"

so it would naturally be of interest to investigators in the US. Whether the Mueller report mentioned the Russian made phone is irrelevant to this story,

Really? Are you saying Mueller is an idiot?

which never ended up being used as proof of collaboration between the Russian government and Trump. The evidence for "Russiagate" is massive and well-documented. Alfa Bank was just a historical footnote that keeps being only a footnote.

Nope, it's not even a footnote. Mueller does not mention Alfa bank DNS logs at all.
What really happened is that Mueller did look into it by asking IT experts and they told him what I told you - whole story is utter BS, that's why it's not in a report.
And the point I have been making is not about whether or not DNS log shit is true, it's not. The point is, democratic operatives lied to the public and to the FBI about this. They created this conspiracy from really nothing on order to hurt Trump and they got away with it (nobody is in jail)
In case of republican lies there are investigations and subpoenas, not to mention some lawyers losing licences. Democrats are supposed to be good guys.

 

[Copernicus]

What do you mean come from Russia? I believe they were officially sold in US, hence they had never spent a day in Russia. Same as iPhones, they don't come from US.

Yota once planned to sell them in the US, but they cancelled those plans. There is no apparent reason why anyone working in the Trump Organization or the Whitehouse would want to own one of their phones and use them so much to communicate with an Alfa Bank server. Why would someone working for Trump spend so much time with one of these phones? Sorry, but a team charged with investigating the Trump campaign and White House for potential backchannel collaboration with the Russian government would find that extremely suspicious. Had they used iPhones, nobody would think it out of the ordinary.

The "fucker" in the Trump Organization who used that phone was almost certainly using it quite a bit for communications with Russia,

Why? because he had a russion phone? What about chinese made phones? Have you looked into that conspiracy?
Do you understand that russian phone BS follows the same script they used in DNS log? Find some link to word russian and shout "Russians!!!!"

That's right. Russian phone that isn't sold in the US. If they found Russian Cyrillic text associated with it and not Pinyin, then it is reasonable that they didn't pursue a Chinese connection.

so it would naturally be of interest to investigators in the US. Whether the Mueller report mentioned the Russian made phone is irrelevant to this story,

Really? Are you saying Mueller is an idiot?

No, not Mueller. He's not the one trying so hard to find some reason not to consider the Alfa Bank activities on a rarely seen Russian-manufactured phone to be nothing worth investigating.

which never ended up being used as proof of collaboration between the Russian government and Trump. The evidence for "Russiagate" is massive and well-documented. Alfa Bank was just a historical footnote that keeps being only a footnote.

Nope, it's not even a footnote. Mueller does not mention Alfa bank DNS logs at all.
What really happened is that Mueller did look into it by asking IT experts and they told him what I told you - whole story is utter BS, that's why it's not in a report.

Well, this discussion hasn't been about the Mueller report, which documented in great detail all kinds of connections between Trump and Russia. Most of that was supposed to be the subject of Mueller's investigation as a counterintelligence investigation, but Mueller decided (perhaps under pressure from the Trump administration) to hand that off to other investigators, and it simply disappeared. Nobody knows whether such an investigation took place or, if it did, what conclusions it came to. It simply disappeared during Trump's oversight of the investigation. Mueller concentrated on whether Trump's campaign and White House engaged in activities that could be indicted under US laws. He found quite a few and achieved a number of convictions. Some of the convictions were commuted or pardoned by Trump later on, because he had that power under the US Constitution. The counterintelligence investigation was apparently "deep-sixed" to use Watergate terminology.

And the point I have been making is not about whether or not DNS log shit is true, it's not. The point is, democratic operatives lied to the public and to the FBI about this. They created this conspiracy from really nothing on order to hurt Trump and they got away with it (nobody is in jail)
In case of republican lies there are investigations and subpoenas, not to mention some lawyers losing licences. Democrats are supposed to be good guys.

You are simply dead wrong. Durham was appointed to investigate this matter, and he has brought an indictment against one lawyer for allegedly lying to the FBI. I discussed that above and cited news stories reporting on it. They either went over your head, or you didn't bother reading them. The indictment against Sussman for allegedly lying rests on the fact that he did not inform the FBI that the Clinton campaign had hired him for legal representation. However, since the information he passed to the FBI came from a different client, he did not cite them as an involved party. Sussman was not acting as a representative of the Democratic campaign when he talked to the FBI. He may have also passed the Alfa Bank information on to the Clinton campaign as well, and I expect the court case to get to the bottom of that. Possibly, the charge will result in a conviction, but most legal experts seem to think that it is too weak. They are calling this indictment a  speaking indictment, since it seems to have been put forward merely to get the issue aired in public rather than to achieve an actual conviction.

 

[barbos]

You are simply dead wrong

No, you are dead wrong about everything.
This russian phone crap is nothing but a distraction from DNS log fiasco.

I understand you are not an IT expert to say the least. So it's hard for me to explain how ridiculous that theory was.

Yotaphone had unique features and it's conceivable that someone imported it to the US. Other than that it means nothing, it's a shit on a wall.

Mueller is not an idiot, he knew about DNS log accusations and he most certainly checked that out. The fact that it is not in his report should tell you everything you need to know.



Americans in general have this remarkably annoying high tolerance of BS. Every fucker thinks he can say whatever he wants "Election was stolen!" "Vaccines don't work!". Freedom of the speech my ass.
Why nobody is in prison is beyond me.

 

[KeepTalking]

You are simply dead wrong

No, you are dead wrong about everything.

It is statements like this, as a response to a quite detailed post, that make it very hard to take you seriously about anything. This despite your unique perspective that would otherwise make for a valuable contribution to this board.

 

[barbos]

You are simply dead wrong

No, you are dead wrong about everything.

It is statements like this, as a response to a quite detailed post, that make it very hard to take you seriously about anything. This despite your unique perspective that would otherwise make for a valuable contribution to this board.

Verbosity is a main ingredient of "let's throw shit on a wall" strategy.


By the way, I could not find russian smartphone nonsense in the link he proivided.
The link talks the same shit I was commenting on. The same piece of shit securityu expert with links to Clinton and who was caught red handed lying about other stuff.

 

[barbos]

https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/russia-trump-durham-yotaphone/
Fuck!!! 2 weeks old story about nothing.

It does not say yotaphone was used to communicate with Alfa Bank. It says it was used to "communicate" (notice the quotes) with "Trump" (again, quotes) Server.
Same DNS shit Mueller/FBI looked intio.

The investigation into the investigation has resulted in two indictments, the second of which revolves around the theory that there was some secret communications line between the Trump Organization and the Russia-controlled Alfa Bank. The FBI (and most everyone else) briefly looked at that theory and quickly discarded it, and life went on.

 

[Copernicus]

https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/russia-trump-durham-yotaphone/
Fuck!!! 2 weeks old story about nothing.

It does not say yotaphone was used to communicate with Alfa Bank. It says it was used to "communicate" (notice the quotes) with "Trump" (again, quotes) Server.
Same DNS shit Mueller/FBI looked intio.

The investigation into the investigation has resulted in two indictments, the second of which revolves around the theory that there was some secret communications line between the Trump Organization and the Russia-controlled Alfa Bank. The FBI (and most everyone else) briefly looked at that theory and quickly discarded it, and life went on.

That article doesn't say a lot of things, so telling us what it doesn't say is irrelevant. It didn't try to give an overview of the Yotaphone issue, and everyone who reports on it in more detail points out that the "theory" never went anywhere because of the lack of evidence. The content of the communications with that Russian-made Yotaphone remain a mystery. I realize that you feel compelled to try to respond to previous posts, but it would be more helpful if you tried to make a more substantive contribution. The Alfa Bank issue only resurfaced because of the Sussman indictment, and it remains to be seen whether any court will take that indictment as anything more than a "speaking indictment" intended by Durham to make it look like his failed investigation came up with some kind of result.

 

[barbos]

https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/russia-trump-durham-yotaphone/
Fuck!!! 2 weeks old story about nothing.

It does not say yotaphone was used to communicate with Alfa Bank. It says it was used to "communicate" (notice the quotes) with "Trump" (again, quotes) Server.
Same DNS shit Mueller/FBI looked intio.

The investigation into the investigation has resulted in two indictments, the second of which revolves around the theory that there was some secret communications line between the Trump Organization and the Russia-controlled Alfa Bank. The FBI (and most everyone else) briefly looked at that theory and quickly discarded it, and life went on.

That article doesn't say a lot of things, so telling us what it doesn't say is irrelevant. It didn't try to give an overview of the Yotaphone issue, and everyone who reports on it in more detail points out that the "theory" never went anywhere because of the lack of evidence. The content of the communications with that Russian-made Yotaphone remain a mystery. I realize that you feel compelled to try to respond to previous posts, but it would be more helpful if you tried to make a more substantive contribution. The Alfa Bank issue only resurfaced because of the Sussman indictment, and it remains to be seen whether any court will take that indictment as anything more than a "speaking indictment" intended by Durham to make it look like his failed investigation came up with some kind of result.

So what is the point of all this?
Why did you bring up Yotaphone?
Do you even understand that it backfired on you?

 

[Swammerdami]

This is an interesting topic about which I know very little. (And wading through this thread isn't very helpful, as it is full of "You said that I said that ..." "No, YOU said that ..." ... But this is my fault, starting near the end rather than reading the first 3000+ posts in the thread!)

I did click on barbos' link to a New Yorker article (Thanks, barbos!) and saw this:

Alfa Bank’s relationship with Trump is opaque, and official documents resulting from a series of investigations and counter-investigations into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election offer few decisive conclusions. In the special counsel Robert Mueller’s final report, Petr Aven, the chairman of Alfa Bank, testified that he tried, at Putin’s suggestion, to open a private channel to the incoming Trump Administration.

Collusion, like many financial crimes, is very hard to prove; but the final sentence of this excerpt suggests there was some linkage, whether legal or not, between Trump and Alfa Bank.

To this observer, there are a few news items that lend credence to the idea that Trump was indeed a Russian asset. It would be nice to hear expert TFT opinion on these matters.

(1) Trump once met privately with Putin; the only other person present was a language interpreter Putin provided. This was VERY highly improper. (One could argue that even Trump, were he actually committing treason, would find a cleverer way to communicate with Putin. OTOH, Trump is semi-literate, rather stupid, very brash and has a hands-on approach so I don't swallow that argument.)

(2) An allegation (by Steele dossier?) was that "blackmail tapes" were collected in the hotel suite where Trump spent the night during a Miss Universe show. Trump claims that he did not spend the night there, that he left for the airport early. Yet witnesses attest that Trump didn't leave the hotel until the following day. Why would Trump lie about that?

 

[barbos]

Nobody denies that rich people in Russia had/have contacts with Trump. I don't even deny possibility of a secret channel between Alfa Bank and Trump Organization. Anything is possible.

My issue is specifically with this DNS log "evidence". I know for a fact that people behind it are lying. And again, they are not lying about facts or logs, they are lying when they say it's evidence of something.
I am not sure about level of involvement of Alperovich but he had been a documented liar even before this story.

https://freewestmedia.com/2017/03/23/delusional-report-on-russian-hacking-in-ukraine/

 

[Copernicus]

...
So what is the point of all this?
Why did you bring up Yotaphone?
Do you even understand that it backfired on you?

Rubbish. Everyone here knows why I brought up Yotaphone to prove to you that the Alfa Bank-Trump connection involved a Russian made phone. You have been all over the map trying to claim it was all a fabrication, but now you seem ready to acknowledge grudgingly that there may have been mysterious communications between Alfa Bank and the Trump Organization on a Russian made phone. Well, I take that back. You appear to now be suffering from an amnesia stroke and can't even remember why Yotaphone had to be brought up in the first place. And you immediately pivot back to your attempts to discredit the Crowdstrike report that Russia hacked DNC emails, using a source that regularly spreads pro-Russia propaganda. Back on the hobbyhorse.

 

[barbos]

...
So what is the point of all this?
Why did you bring up Yotaphone?
Do you even understand that it backfired on you?

Rubbish. Everyone here knows why I brought up Yotaphone to prove to you that the Alfa Bank-Trump connection involved a Russian made phone.

I don't know. You could be trolling or simply dumb.

You have been all over the map trying to claim it was all a fabrication, but now you seem ready to acknowledge grudgingly that there may have been mysterious communications between Alfa Bank and the Trump Organization on a Russian made phone.

No, I do not acknowledge that. I mean no more than communication with aliens from space.

Let me dumb it down so that even a linguist can understand:
Crime has been committed, a man has been murdered. Some guy is being accused of the murder and the evidence you (an attorney) present in court is the fact that he has a smartphone gun, that's it, nothing more, except accusing attorney (that's you) having an unrelated grudge and even financial interest against accused.

And you immediately pivot back to your attempts to discredit the Crowdstrike report that Russia hacked DNC emails,

People get fired (or worse) when they fail to disclose conflict of interest.

 

[barbos]

Just looked at picture of Copernicus in Alaska. I knew he was old, just did not have a picture in my head.
Now I understand why this discussion might be hopeless. All this DNS log talks goes through your head like neutrinos - no reaction whatsoever.

So you found a picture of someone from Alaska who uses the handle Copernicus, and you assume that this is the same person on this board from Bellevue, Washington?

Talk about unwarranted assumptions...

Just how close to Alaska do you think Bellevue, Washington is?

You need a hobby you are good at.

https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...uring-the-Wuhan-Flu-Scare&p=943058#post943058

 

[Copernicus]

Getting back to the thread topic--Christopher Steele, author of the famously controversial dossier is back in the news. He is promoting his book Out of the Shadows. Below is a link to the ABC story on his interview with George Stephanopoulos, in which Steele reaffirms his view that none of the allegations in the original report have ever been disproven. In his view, the Mueller report only strengthened the truth of the allegations of collusion between Russia and Donald Trump. In response to the point that Mueller failed to find evidence for a conviction on that issue, Steele replied that Mueller had limited his report to an attempt to find evidence that would likely lead to a conviction rather than establish collusion. Both his dossier and the subsequent Mueller investigation established a strong basis for collusion, but Mueller felt that criminal charges could be warranted against Trump for obstruction of justice, given the fact that his administration did everything it could to block his investigation.

See Behind the dossier: How Christopher Steele penned his reports -- and the fallout from his unmasking

 

[barbos]

Getting back to the thread topic--Christopher Steele, author of the famously controversial dossier is back in the news. He is promoting his book Out of the Shadows. Below is a link to the ABC story on his interview with George Stephanopoulos, in which Steele reaffirms his view that none of the allegations in the original report have ever been disproven. In his view, the Mueller report only strengthened the truth of the allegations of collusion between Russia and Donald Trump. In response to the point that Mueller failed to find evidence for a conviction on that issue, Steele replied that Mueller had limited his report to an attempt to find evidence that would likely lead to a conviction rather than establish collusion. Both his dossier and the subsequent Mueller investigation established a strong basis for collusion, but Mueller felt that criminal charges could be warranted against Trump for obstruction of justice, given the fact that his administration did everything it could to block his investigation.

See Behind the dossier: How Christopher Steele penned his reports -- and the fallout from his unmasking

George Stephanopoulos (and CNN talking heads) clearly disagrees with Steele.
And Alfa Bank stuff was not in Steele report anyway, why are you bringing it up?

 

[KeepTalking]

Getting back to the thread topic--Christopher Steele, author of the famously controversial dossier is back in the news. He is promoting his book Out of the Shadows. Below is a link to the ABC story on his interview with George Stephanopoulos, in which Steele reaffirms his view that none of the allegations in the original report have ever been disproven. In his view, the Mueller report only strengthened the truth of the allegations of collusion between Russia and Donald Trump. In response to the point that Mueller failed to find evidence for a conviction on that issue, Steele replied that Mueller had limited his report to an attempt to find evidence that would likely lead to a conviction rather than establish collusion. Both his dossier and the subsequent Mueller investigation established a strong basis for collusion, but Mueller felt that criminal charges could be warranted against Trump for obstruction of justice, given the fact that his administration did everything it could to block his investigation.

See Behind the dossier: How Christopher Steele penned his reports -- and the fallout from his unmasking

George Stephanopoulos (and CNN talking heads) clearly disagrees with Steele.
And Alfa Bank stuff was not in Steele report anyway, why are you bringing it up?

The thread topic is RussiaGate.

 

[barbos]

Getting back to the thread topic--Christopher Steele, author of the famously controversial dossier is back in the news. He is promoting his book Out of the Shadows. Below is a link to the ABC story on his interview with George Stephanopoulos, in which Steele reaffirms his view that none of the allegations in the original report have ever been disproven. In his view, the Mueller report only strengthened the truth of the allegations of collusion between Russia and Donald Trump. In response to the point that Mueller failed to find evidence for a conviction on that issue, Steele replied that Mueller had limited his report to an attempt to find evidence that would likely lead to a conviction rather than establish collusion. Both his dossier and the subsequent Mueller investigation established a strong basis for collusion, but Mueller felt that criminal charges could be warranted against Trump for obstruction of justice, given the fact that his administration did everything it could to block his investigation.

See Behind the dossier: How Christopher Steele penned his reports -- and the fallout from his unmasking

George Stephanopoulos (and CNN talking heads) clearly disagrees with Steele.
And Alfa Bank stuff was not in Steele report anyway, why are you bringing it up?

The thread topic is RussiaGate.

Yes, and as I said, both CNN and Stephanopoulos don't think highly about Steele's dossier anymore.
I understand, dossier is just collection of hearsays of individuals with varying degrees of trustworthiness.
In fact it can be complete fabrication by Steele himself because none of his sources will ever come forward and say "yes, I told Steele that"

 

[KeepTalking]

The thread topic is RussiaGate.

Yes, and as I said, both CNN and Stephanopoulos don't think highly about Steele's dossier anymore.
I understand, dossier is just collection of hearsays of individuals with varying degrees of trustworthiness.
In fact it can be complete fabrication by Steele himself because none of his sources will ever come forward and say "yes, I told Steele that"

And may of us have said that Alfa Bank is just a footnote in this whole saga, yet you keep bringing it up every time you want to distract from another topic. I guess you are just going to have to deal with the fact that the Steele dossier has nothing to do with Alfa Bank, but has everything to do with the actual topic of this thread, RussiaGate.

 

[barbos]

The thread topic is RussiaGate.

Yes, and as I said, both CNN and Stephanopoulos don't think highly about Steele's dossier anymore.
I understand, dossier is just collection of hearsays of individuals with varying degrees of trustworthiness.
In fact it can be complete fabrication by Steele himself because none of his sources will ever come forward and say "yes, I told Steele that"

And may of us have said that Alfa Bank is just a footnote in this whole saga, yet you keep bringing it up every time you want to distract from another topic. I guess you are just going to have to deal with the fact that the Steele dossier has nothing to do with Alfa Bank, but has everything to do with the actual topic of this thread, RussiaGate.

No, it's not a footnote and I explained why.

 

[Rhea]

.
Please lean toward meaningful discussion of the topic at hand.