RussiaGate

[Copernicus]

Barbos, the statistics in that article should be taken with a grain of salt, but your knowledge of the relationship between Russian intelligence agencies and Russian-based organized crime (RBOC) should be taken with a far larger grain of salt. That is hardly something that you would know anything about. That relationship has been reported on for years. For example, here is an EU report that was published back in 1917 (See Crimintern: How the Kremlin uses Russia’s criminal networks in Europe):

What makes RBOC a particularly serious and timely challenge is the growing evidence of connections between such criminal networks and the Kremlin’s state security apparatus, notably the Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR), military intelligence (GRU), and the Federal Security Service (FSB).[3] Organised crime groups have already been used by the Kremlin as instruments of intelligence activity and political influence and are likely to become an even greater problem as Russian’s campaign to undermine Western unity and effectiveness continues. It is crucial that European countries and the European Union as a whole develop sharper and more effective responses to the threat.

The report goes into details on the history and some of the evidence for the connection at the time of publication.

In related news, a report just released today by the AP cites a survey of the public shows that roughly three-quarters of Americans see Russia as a primary threat. A lot of that comes from reports of high profile ransomware attacks that were conducted from Russian soil. That may fill Russians with some sense of pride, but it will continue to make it very difficult for relations to improve between our countries until the Russian government takes steps to curb these activities. It's not a smart strategy at a time when the world faces much more serious problems than these petty national rivalries.

See Cyberattacks concerning to most in US: Pearson/AP-NORC poll

The broad consensus highlights the growing impacts of cyberattacks in an increasingly connected world and could boost efforts by President Joe Biden and lawmakers to force critical industries to boost their cyber defenses and impose reporting requirements for companies that get hacked. The poll comes amid a wave of high-profile ransomware attacks and cyber espionage campaigns in the last year that have compromised sensitive government records and led to the shutdown of the operations of energy companies, hospitals, schools and others.

“It’s pretty uncommon nowadays to find issues that both large majorities of Republicans and Democrats” view as a problem, said David Sterrett, a senior research scientist at the AP-NORC Center.

 

[Elixir]

“It’s pretty uncommon nowadays to find issues that both large majorities of Republicans and Democrats” view as a problem, said David Sterrett, a senior research scientist at the AP-NORC Center.

Fortunately Republicans have a way to make the problem go away; re-elect an administration that's on Russia's side.

 

[barbos]

Copernicus, I don't deny there are people who claim (falsely) what you quote.
Yes people claimed and still claim there was Alfa Bank Trump conspiracy, but it is a LIE.

I find it interesting that Hydra has no english version of wiki. I suspect it is because it is not popular topic on the West because it does not fit your narrative of scary russian government hackers.

 

[Copernicus]

Copernicus, I don't deny there are people who claim (falsely) what you quote.
Yes people claimed and still claim there was Alfa Bank Trump conspiracy, but it is a LIE.

OK, so you now want to change the subject to your Alfa Bank hobbyhorse, which was a footnote in allegations about collusion between Trump's 2016 campaign and Russia. And you try to use it to justify your unsupported dismissal of a claim made in my post. I guess that that is the best you can do, so I'm content to let the matter rest.

 

[barbos]

Copernicus, I don't deny there are people who claim (falsely) what you quote.
Yes people claimed and still claim there was Alfa Bank Trump conspiracy, but it is a LIE.

OK, so you now want to change the subject to your Alfa Bank hobbyhorse, which was a footnote in allegations about collusion between Trump's 2016 campaign and Russia. And you try to use it to justify your unsupported dismissal of a claim made in my post. I guess that that is the best you can do, so I'm content to let the matter rest.

That's not the point here. The point here, the people who came out with Alfa Bank BS knew they were lying, and they were democrats.
Think about it.

 

[Swammerdami]

That's not the point here. The point here, the people who came out with Alfa Bank BS knew they were lying, and they were democrats.
Think about it.

Cite?

 

[barbos]

That's not the point here. The point here, the people who came out with Alfa Bank BS knew they were lying, and they were democrats.
Think about it.

Cite?

Cite for what?

 

[ZiprHead]

That's not the point here. The point here, the people who came out with Alfa Bank BS knew they were lying, and they were democrats.
Think about it.

Cite?

Cite for what?

the people who came out with Alfa Bank BS knew they were lying, and they were democrats.

..

 

[Elixir]

Cite for what?

the people who came out with Alfa Bank BS knew they were lying, and they were democrats.

..

How did Alfa Bank become the subject here?
The FACT of the Trump/Russia co-ordination of efforts to influence the 2016 election is in no way dismissed because of barbos' fixation with what Democrats supposedly "came out" with regarding ASlfa Bank. Barbos seems to think that repeating his unsupported assertion will make the actual collusion go away. Maybe it also makes Russia's ongoing attempt to sow division and undermine American democracy go away? Magic?

 

[Copernicus]

Barbos seldom backs up what he says, since he isn't trying to prove anything. I think the point was just to change the subject, since Alfa Bank had no relevance to what he was commenting on. Saying that Democrats were deliberately lying about it pretty much grabbed everyone's attention from the fact that he had no real way to contradict the evidence I gave to back up my claims about the connection between Russian intelligence services and RBOC (Russian Based Organized Crime). The best he could do was claim it was false and then go with the Alfa Bank defense.

 

[barbos]

Cite for what?

the people who came out with Alfa Bank BS knew they were lying, and they were democrats.

..

Are you implying democrats media were not pushing Alfa Bank story? MSNBC did not push it?

 

[barbos]

..

How did Alfa Bank become the subject here?

It has always been a subject here. Statistics was posted here, and I commented saying: "why do you trust it?" And presented an example of proven media lies which so far has not been challenged in any major way - Alfa Bank story.

 

[barbos]

Barbos seldom backs up what he says, since he isn't trying to prove anything. I think the point was just to change the subject, since Alfa Bank had no relevance to what he was commenting on. Saying that Democrats were deliberately lying about it pretty much grabbed everyone's attention from the fact that he had no real way to contradict the evidence I gave to back up my claims about the connection between Russian intelligence services and RBOC (Russian Based Organized Crime). The best he could do was claim it was false and then go with the Alfa Bank defense.

I have proven beyond any doubt that statistics is utter crap. And only then I reminded you about Alfa Bank.

 

[barbos]

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-contested-afterlife-of-the-trump-alfa-bank-story

Apparently story is not over, Alfa Bank is pursuing it. Speaking of state-backed hacking.

 

[Copernicus]

Barbos seldom backs up what he says, since he isn't trying to prove anything. I think the point was just to change the subject, since Alfa Bank had no relevance to what he was commenting on. Saying that Democrats were deliberately lying about it pretty much grabbed everyone's attention from the fact that he had no real way to contradict the evidence I gave to back up my claims about the connection between Russian intelligence services and RBOC (Russian Based Organized Crime). The best he could do was claim it was false and then go with the Alfa Bank defense.

I have proven beyond any doubt that statistics is utter crap. And only then I reminded you about Alfa Bank.

I will concede beyond any doubt that you have asserted that the statistics are "utter crap". You have done nothing whatsoever to support your claim, let alone prove it. It's not as if people can't go back and look for your "proof". Beyond the bare assertion, there is just an attempt to change the subject to your old Alfa Bank hobbyhorse.

After an initial flurry of press reports, Alfa Bank receded into the background and never amounted to more than a footnote in the scandal. This is from your own reported New Yorker article:

Alfa Bank’s relationship with Trump is opaque, and official documents resulting from a series of investigations and counter-investigations into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election offer few decisive conclusions. In the special counsel Robert Mueller’s final report, Petr Aven, the chairman of Alfa Bank, testified that he tried, at Putin’s suggestion, to open a private channel to the incoming Trump Administration. Mueller’s report didn’t mention the Alfa Bank data, but one issued this summer by the Senate Intelligence Committee did. It said that, although investigators did not conclude that the data necessarily reflected communication, they also “could not positively determine an intent or purpose that would explain the unusual activity”; it added that the explanations offered by Alfa Bank and the Trump Organization “were not consistent.” ...

The rest of the article was just an airing of different opinions on the subject with no conclusive proof of anything at all, one way or the other.

 

[barbos]

You remind me these politicians who are masters at ignoring questions and arguments.

I just explained why that statistics is crap.
And the reason I posted the Alfa Bank link is not so you can find some irrelevant crap there (I don't agree with everything in it).
I posted it to show you that Alfa Bank is still pursuing it and going after people behind that crap.
If I was Putin I would have been whatabouting this story every time I was asked anything I don't like. Hell, I would have been whatabouting even when asked questions I liked.

There can't be no doubt whatsoever in my interpretation of that story, just none.

 

[ZiprHead]

..

Are you implying democrats media were not pushing Alfa Bank story? MSNBC did not push it?

How do you know they were lying and not just reporting a story?

 

[barbos]

..

Are you implying democrats media were not pushing Alfa Bank story? MSNBC did not push it?

How do you know they were lying?

Because it's impossible to be that dumb to push that BS. I am talking about IT guys who "discovered" it, not Rachel Maddow. She obviously got this BS second or even third hand. We don't know whether or not she ran it through IT people she trusts.

 

[KeepTalking]

If I was Putin I would have been whatabouting this story every time I was asked anything I don't like. Hell, I would have been whatabouting even when asked questions I liked.

There can't be no doubt whatsoever in my interpretation of that story, just none.

Agreed, I have no doubt whatsoever that Alfa Bank is just a whataboutism that you pull out when you have no answer to a question here.

 

[barbos]

If I was Putin I would have been whatabouting this story every time I was asked anything I don't like. Hell, I would have been whatabouting even when asked questions I liked.

There can't be no doubt whatsoever in my interpretation of that story, just none.

Agreed, I have no doubt whatsoever that Alfa Bank is just a whataboutism that you pull out when you have no answer to a question here.

And?
Alfa Bank story is still BS and you know it.