RussiaGate

[Copernicus]

So Germans can, for example, arrest and throw to prison CIA director when he decides to go visit Germany the next time?
And what about saudis? they all, 100% violate US laws while living in SA. Would not it be nice to throw them all in US prison?

Were the heads of the FSB or GRU indicted by a US prosecutor? I must have missed that. But, in principle, yes. As for the Saudis, I must admit that I would like to see them thrown into a US prison. The reality is that indictments are handed down against people by a grand jury on the basis of evidence that those individuals committed crimes. Their bosses aren't usually indicted, unless there is some credible evidence of their direct involvement.

So do you have a problem with indicting foreign government people for something you are doing as well?

No, I don't have a problem with Russians indicting Americans who break Russian laws. Most nations have spy organizations that conduct intelligence activities in other countries, and that isn't going to stop because some country, ours or yours, unilaterally decides to dismantle its spy operations. It would be nice if we could all live in peace, harmony and a yellow submarine, but that turns out to be easier to imagine than to achieve. We could certainly use more diplomacy and less saber rattling.

I understand that US justice system is independent and all but the only reason why russians are meddling is because you are meddling. If you stop they will stop as well.

Seriously? You actually buy into the narrative that America is responsible for Russia's bad behavior? You must live in a country of misunderstood saints. If everyone just stopped hating Russians, you wouldn't be forced to be bad guys, would you?

 

[barbos]

The biggest political scandal in American history - Axios

Historians tell Axios that the only two scandals that come close to Trump-Russia are Watergate, which led to President Richard Nixon's resignation in 1974, and the Teapot Dome scandal of the early 1920s, in which oil barons bribed a corrupt aide to President Warren Harding for petroleum leases.

But neither of those scandals involved foreign meddling.

Trump and his associates have been involved in:

1. Paying hush money to two of Trump's mistresses, then lying about it.
2. Continuing to negotiate a deal for a Trump Tower in Moscow, then lying about it.
3. Having more than 100 contacts with Russian officials during the 2016 campaign, in which the Russians offered to assist. Complete with not alerting the FBI and other such agencies.
4. Former national security adviser Michael Flynn pleaded guilty to lying about his contacts with Russian officials.
5. Trump fired FBI director James Comey because of the Russia investigation.
6. Trump got a top-secret security clearance for son-in-law Jared Kushner, something that alarmed White House chief of staff John Kelly.

In his investigation, Robert Mueller has indicated 27 people so far. Watergate is still the champion in that, however, with 69 people charged.

Mueller released his report?
You know you have no smocking gun when you are forced to use big number of flimsical infractions.

watching CNN I concluded they don't expect much from russian angle anymore.

 

[barbos]

So do you have a problem with indicting foreign government people for something you are doing as well?

No, I don't have a problem with Russians indicting Americans who break Russian laws. Most nations have spy organizations that conduct intelligence activities in other countries, and that isn't going to stop because some country, ours or yours, unilaterally decides to dismantle its spy operations. It would be nice if we could all live in peace, harmony and a yellow submarine, but that turns out to be easier to imagine than to achieve. We could certainly use more diplomacy and less saber rattling.

I was not talking about simply spying, I was talking about meddling.

I understand that US justice system is independent and all but the only reason why russians are meddling is because you are meddling. If you stop they will stop as well.

Seriously? You actually buy into the narrative that America is responsible for Russia's bad behavior? You must live in a country of misunderstood saints. If everyone just stopped hating Russians, you wouldn't be forced to be bad guys, would you?

You're making it sound bad, but yes, US is largely responsible for Russia's "bad" behaviour. Lots of smart and independent people agree with me. Pozner for example, lots of retired american intelligence critters who no longer aspire for positions at LM also agree with me.

 

[laughing dog]

You're making it sound bad, but yes, US is largely responsible for Russia's "bad" behaviour.

People are largely responsible for their behavior, so your claim is ludicrous.

 

[barbos]

You're making it sound bad, but yes, US is largely responsible for Russia's "bad" behaviour.

People are largely responsible for their behavior, so your claim is ludicrous.

Yes, you are responsible for posting this random bullshit.

 

[Trausti]

Whimper for the Russia-Truther if all of this really is just a pile of shit.

 

[laughing dog]

You're making it sound bad, but yes, US is largely responsible for Russia's "bad" behaviour.

People are largely responsible for their behavior, so your claim is ludicrous.

Yes, you are responsible for posting this random bullshit.

It is neither random nor bullshit. Why you would liken Russia to a fuckwitted child who cannot do anything on its own is beyond me. Russia is third world country with delusions of grandeur and persecution that feels the world revolves around its existence, but it is not filled with fuckwits, despite your posts to the contrary.

 

[barbos]

Speaking of former critters. Just read in the news about former german chancellor adviser who put the blame on EU and NATO
https://www.spiegel.de/plus/horst-t...tossen-a-00000000-0002-0001-0000-000162787640

Speaking of Germany, there is this US ambassador to Germany and he is well known in Germany as crazy who nobody takes seriously. He goes around and makes nonsensical predictions/proclamations like Russia is going to invade Germany soon.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You're making it sound bad, but yes, US is largely responsible for Russia's "bad" behaviour.

Wait... if bad is in quotes, then you mean it isn't bad. So you are saying that the US is responsible for Russia's decent behavior?

 

[barbos]

You're making it sound bad, but yes, US is largely responsible for Russia's "bad" behaviour.

Wait... if bad is in quotes, then you mean it isn't bad. So you are saying that the US is responsible for Russia's decent behavior?

"bad" does not mean decent.
What Russia does is involuntary reflex in response to US incessant poking.

 

[James Brown]

"Look at what you made me do."

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

What Russia does is involuntary reflex in response to US incessant poking.

Awww. Poor Russia. Well, then it's all justified. Good thing you cleared that up.

 

[laughing dog]

You're making it sound bad, but yes, US is largely responsible for Russia's "bad" behaviour.

Wait... if bad is in quotes, then you mean it isn't bad. So you are saying that the US is responsible for Russia's decent behavior?

"bad" does not mean decent.
What Russia does is involuntary reflex in response to US incessant poking.

Ah, so your bullshit responses are involuntary reflexes?

 

[Keith&Co.]

What Russia does is involuntary reflex in response to US incessant poking.

Awww. Poor Russia. Well, then it's all justified. Good thing you cleared that up.

So, okay, then indicting foreign nationals who break our laws is an involuntary reflex on our part. We can't help it, once we identify the actors and their actions.
So it's not short sighted, there's no foresight at all. At least Russia will recognize the innocence on our part and not retaliate against our involuntary retaliation.

Makes as much sense and is equally compelling, legally.

 

[barbos]

Nothing to comment here.
Oh, wait, I think I see growing frustration that this Russia thing is useless in your war with Orange idiot. I think Russia will pay for this. These Russians should have meddled more.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Nothing to comment here.
Oh, wait, I think I see growing frustration that this Russia thing is useless in your war with Orange idiot. I think Russia will pay for this. These Russians should have meddled more.

Ya. They should have. Given that there isn't really any consequence for their meddling, there's no reason to be in any way half-assed about it.

 

[KeepTalking]

Speaking of Germany, there is this US ambassador to Germany and he is well known in Germany as crazy who nobody takes seriously. He goes around and makes nonsensical predictions/proclamations like Russia is going to invade Germany soon.

I think that limerick you posted above lost something in the translation from Russian.

 

[Copernicus]

I was not talking about simply spying, I was talking about meddling.

Ah, so what you appear to be saying is that it would not be illegal for the CIA and other US intelligence agencies to work with candidates for office in Russia in order to undermine elections there? Nobody would be breaking Russian law by using social media to conduct a disinformation campaign against politicians that the US did not like? I'm not an expert on Russian law, but I suspect that any American agents caught engaging in such activities would be charged as spies and prosecuted to the fullest extent. As if to emphasize my point, the Duma just passed a couple of new laws: Russia passes laws banning ‘fake news,’ ‘disrespect’ of government. So take extra care to say respectful things about your government from now on, barbos. I'm sure you won't have any problem in that department.

I understand that US justice system is independent and all but the only reason why russians are meddling is because you are meddling. If you stop they will stop as well.

Seriously? You actually buy into the narrative that America is responsible for Russia's bad behavior? You must live in a country of misunderstood saints. If everyone just stopped hating Russians, you wouldn't be forced to be bad guys, would you?

You're making it sound bad, but yes, US is largely responsible for Russia's "bad" behaviour. Lots of smart and independent people agree with me. Pozner for example, lots of retired american intelligence critters who no longer aspire for positions at LM also agree with me.

I suspect you got exactly the reaction here that you were looking for when you admitted such a stupid argument. That kind of nonsense ultimately becomes its own self-fulfilling prophecy. The more you seek to justify your own misbehavior, the more other countries will seek ways to resist and pay you back in kind. So now everyone is in an uproar about Russian meddling, and not just in the US. This is not going to end well for Russia, whose GDP is currently less than that of Italy. What Russia needs is to be seen as a partner, not an adversary. A lot of progress had been made before Putin decided to attack Ukraine and annex a large part of their territory.

 

[barbos]

Ah, so what you appear to be saying is that it would not be illegal for the CIA and other US intelligence agencies to work with candidates for office in Russia in order to undermine elections there?

That's a problem here, you think like a lawyer, whereas russians in general think ln terms fair/unfair.
You think if something is legal in Russia but highly illegal in US it's OK for americans go to Russia and do that stuff while going all outraged when russians do that in US. Russians don't operate like that.

Nobody would be breaking Russian law by using social media to conduct a disinformation campaign against politicians that the US did not like? I'm not an expert on Russian law, but I suspect that any American agents caught engaging in such activities would be charged as spies and prosecuted to the fullest extent. As if to emphasize my point, the Duma just passed a couple of new laws: Russia passes laws banning ‘fake news,’ ‘disrespect’ of government. So take extra care to say respectful things about your government from now on, barbos. I'm sure you won't have any problem in that department.

Yes they try to mimic what US does,

I understand that US justice system is independent and all but the only reason why russians are meddling is because you are meddling. If you stop they will stop as well.

Seriously? You actually buy into the narrative that America is responsible for Russia's bad behavior? You must live in a country of misunderstood saints. If everyone just stopped hating Russians, you wouldn't be forced to be bad guys, would you?

You're making it sound bad, but yes, US is largely responsible for Russia's "bad" behaviour. Lots of smart and independent people agree with me. Pozner for example, lots of retired american intelligence critters who no longer aspire for positions at LM also agree with me.

I suspect you got exactly the reaction here that you were looking for when you admitted such a stupid argument. That kind of nonsense ultimately becomes its own self-fulfilling prophecy. The more you seek to justify your own misbehavior, the more other countries will seek ways to resist and pay you back in kind. So now everyone is in an uproar about Russian meddling, and not just in the US. This is not going to end well for Russia, whose GDP is currently less than that of Italy. What Russia needs is to be seen as a partner, not an adversary. A lot of progress had been made before Putin decided to attack Ukraine and annex a large part of their territory.

Dude, you are way way off. You completely ignore both long and short history of US trying to shamelessly impose their will on everybody. americans are grossly under informed about all the shenanigans US does when it comes to foreign issues.
I don't remember CNN reporting on US war with Gazprom, do you? It's disgusting, US state department became a lobbyist for US gas producers and they have no shame in lying. They know, EU can not call their lies, even Putin can not directly call them.
Everybody knows what is going on but no one who is of importance is calling it.

You talk about Russia needs to be seen as a partner. Are you fucking kidding me? US does not want that at all, that's a last thing US neocons want.
I understand you missed Pozner thread, please familiarize yourself with issues discussed by Pozner

https://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?17252-Pozner-talk-at-Yale-the-usual-suspects-must-watch

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

That's a problem here, you think like a lawyer, whereas russians in general think ln terms fair/unfair.
You think if something is legal in Russia but highly illegal in US it's OK for americans go to Russia and do that stuff while going all outraged when russians do that in US. Russians don't operate like that.

Yes they try to mimic what US does,

I understand that US justice system is independent and all but the only reason why russians are meddling is because you are meddling. If you stop they will stop as well.

Seriously? You actually buy into the narrative that America is responsible for Russia's bad behavior? You must live in a country of misunderstood saints. If everyone just stopped hating Russians, you wouldn't be forced to be bad guys, would you?

You're making it sound bad, but yes, US is largely responsible for Russia's "bad" behaviour. Lots of smart and independent people agree with me. Pozner for example, lots of retired american intelligence critters who no longer aspire for positions at LM also agree with me.

I suspect you got exactly the reaction here that you were looking for when you admitted such a stupid argument. That kind of nonsense ultimately becomes its own self-fulfilling prophecy. The more you seek to justify your own misbehavior, the more other countries will seek ways to resist and pay you back in kind. So now everyone is in an uproar about Russian meddling, and not just in the US. This is not going to end well for Russia, whose GDP is currently less than that of Italy. What Russia needs is to be seen as a partner, not an adversary. A lot of progress had been made before Putin decided to attack Ukraine and annex a large part of their territory.

Dude, you are way way off. You completely ignore both long and short history of US trying to shamelessly impose their will on everybody. americans are grossly under informed about all the shenanigans US does when it comes to foreign issues.
I don't remember CNN reporting on US war with Gazprom, do you? It's disgusting, US state department became a lobbyist for US gas producers and they have no shame in lying. They know, EU can not call their lies, even Putin can not directly call them.
Everybody knows what is going on but no one who is of importance is calling it.

You talk about Russia needs to be seen as a partner. Are you fucking kidding me? US does not want that at all, that's a last thing US neocons want.
I understand you missed Pozner thread, please familiarize yourself with issues discussed by Pozner

https://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?17252-Pozner-talk-at-Yale-the-usual-suspects-must-watch

I am not completely unsympathetic to your anti-hegemony views. However, this is my country. I believe in democracy and I am doing my small part to make it better. I don't need or want Russia interfering.