RussiaGate

[Jimmy Higgins]

This morning the people that want to ban herbicides in Florida are proposing to drive to Tallahassee and pour herbicide down the steps of the Florida Capitol building. They are linking to RT and Ruptly coverage of protesters pouring blood down the steps of the Trocadero in Paris as inspiration. Funny that. Not some other news source but Russia Today and its Ruptly property. I'm sure the Gazprom fucks that control RT/Ruptly genuinely care about the environment.

Nothing like sowing dissent. Large crops of that in the US... and there are no tariffs on that.

I find interest in how pig weed is potentially fucking Monsanto over, as they've sold farmers on the idea of the miracle pesticides and resistant crops, only to have this super weed shrug its non-existent shoulders and thrive, and there doesn't appear to be much in the way of options to get around it.

 

[scombrid]

I find interest in how pig weed is potentially fucking Monsanto over, as they've sold farmers on the idea of the miracle pesticides and resistant crops, only to have this super weed shrug its non-existent shoulders and thrive, and there doesn't appear to be much in the way of options to get around it.

I've never been a big fan of the Roundup Ready agriculture model. It is too vulnerable to a pest mucking up the monoculture. All it takes is a noxious weed to be resistant to the herbicide and you get fucked on that end; or a pathogen that is good at attacking your crop plant that is engineered with little diversity and you get fucked there. When Roundup Ready works it is great because the total amount of chemical applied is lower and glyphosate is less nasty than the stuff you use to basically sterilize a field ahead of planting when you can't use herbicide after your crop germinates. But that vulnerability of a monoculture is always there and seems a little worse when you are dealing with an engineered seed stock that has so little genetic diversity.

But that doesn't justify all the conspiracy theories and disinformation about GM crops and Glyphosate. My yard is xeriscaped with native and "florida friendly non-native" plants. It is a pollinator's oasis in a sea of St. Augustine Grass monocultures that are maintained with copious amounts of herbicide/fungicide/insecticide. Glyphosate is still my go-to herbicide on the rare occasion that need herbicide in lieu of manual weed control. It is waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy less toxic than the stuff that is applied on a monthly basis to the commercially maintained turf. People ought to read the labels on that Scott's Bonus S "turf builder" weed-n-feed. We've got a whopping 0.38 acres in suburban florida hell and you should see the butterflies and bees in our yard.

But that's a derail. People don't generally know any of that. They are easy to deceive.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No surprise at all. Their objective is discord.

No, their object is to retain control of the WH. By enticing Muslims to riot, that reaffirms the alt-right stereotype (that they also promoted); that "Muslim" is merely synonymous with "Terrorist."

So it's a Roman-esque point a finger at the filthy JewsMuslims who fuck each other over and killed their own messiah strategy.

No--I meant the Russian objective is discord.

 

[lpetrich]

John Kasich Warns That Russia Is Still Meddling in U.S. Elections, but ‘Nobody Is Doing Anything About It’ I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

No surprise at all. Their objective is discord.

No, their object is to retain control of the WH. By enticing Muslims to riot, that reaffirms the alt-right stereotype (that they also promoted); that "Muslim" is merely synonymous with "Terrorist."

So it's a Roman-esque point a finger at the filthy JewsMuslims who fuck each other over and killed their own messiah strategy.

No--I meant the Russian objective is discord.

I know what you meant. You’re wrong.

 

[Angry Floof]

No--I meant the Russian objective is discord.

I know what you meant. You’re wrong.

I have to agree with Loren on that point. I think their goal was and is discord, and that gaining control of the White House was a surprise bonus that, of course, Putin is taking full advantage of.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No--I meant the Russian objective is discord.

I know what you meant. You’re wrong.

I have to agree with Loren on that point. I think their goal was and is discord, and that gaining control of the White House was a surprise bonus that, of course, Putin is taking full advantage of.

Dog pile on Koy. The purpose of influencing the election was to diminish the capacity of the Clinton Administration. That Trump won was a ridiculous bonus for Putin.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I have to agree with Loren on that point. I think their goal was and is discord, and that gaining control of the White House was a surprise bonus that, of course, Putin is taking full advantage of.

Dog pile on Koy. The purpose of influencing the election was to diminish the capacity of the Clinton Administration. That Trump won was a ridiculous bonus for Putin.

You can "pile" all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Putin had Trump, specifically, in mind long before Trump ever officially announced (at least as far back as 2013, which just happened to coincide with Trump inexplicably holding a bikini contest in Russian winter).

The Russian information warfare (their term) was massive and highly coordinated, which takes considerable planning from both an overall psychological strategy to a physical infrastructure strategy. It did not just generally target everybody to sow discord; it very carefully and deliberately targeted two primary "strong tie" groups (young black "activist" males and poorly educated rural "alt-right" whites) and for different primary reasons; voter suppression among the blacks and voter encouragement among the whites.

I use "primary" deliberately as there were more expansive operations going on that involved many complicated elements (as Frank Herbert would put it, feints within feints within feints), but these were the biggest overall and show a clear attack and support pattern for only two people (against Clinton and for Trump) and pretty much from before day one.

The start of the effort was a more general one, of course, but that was due to the nature of the strategy; of "immersion" over merely sowing random chaos/discord.

You needn't take my word for it. Take the word of the University of Oxford social scientists who studied it in depth here, The IRA, Social Media and Political Polarization in the United States, 2012-2018, or, perhaps better still, the New Knowledge study commissioned by the Senate, The Tactics & Tropes of the Internet Research Agency. Snippet:

Pro-Trump Operations Commence During Primaries

• The IRA had a very clear bias for then-candidate Trump’s that spanned from early in the campaign and throughout the data set.
• A substantial portion of political content articulated pro-Donald Trump sentiments, beginning with the early primaries.
• Aside from an extremely small set of early posts supporting Rand Paul, this preference was consistent throughout the Right-leaning IRA-created communities.
• Some of the pages targeting traditionally Left-leaning audiences, such as United Muslims, very occasionally broached the idea that their members might consider Trump as well.

Comprehensive Anti-Hillary Clinton Operations

• A substantial portion of political content articulated anti-Hillary Clinton sentiments among both Right and Left-leaning IRA-created communities.
• There was no pro-Clinton content on Facebook or Instagram, aside from a single United Muslims Facebook Event promoting a rally encouraging Muslims to publicly demonstrate in support of Clinton’s candidacy. However, the bulk of the content on that same page was anti-Clinton, and the anti-Clinton motive behind this ostensibly proClinton post is transparent.
• There were some pro-Clinton Twitter posts (tweets and retweets), however, the developed Left-wing Twitter personas were still largely anti-Clinton and expressed proBernie Sanders and pro-Jill Stein sentiments.
• These tactics and goals overlapped with the pro-Trump portion of the operation.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The Republicans have been attacking Clinton for 30 years. The hatred of her was sown for decades and Benghazi and the emails were used as political foils to weaken her.

While Russia definitely wanted to weaken the Clinton Admin, hence the email hack, there is little evidence that suggests Putin thought Trump could actually win. Trump didn't think Trump had a shot in heck. He was ghost faced election night... until some obfuscation was able to convince himself he always wanted the job.

 

[Angry Floof]

They hand picked Trump because he's a disruptive, obnoxious clown, not because they thought he could win.

 

[ZiprHead]

They hand picked Trump because he's a disruptive, obnoxious clown, not because they thought he could win.

There are probably several people the Russians have been grooming, not just Bonespurs. It wouldn't make sense to put all the eggs in one basket, so to speak. Numerous Republican congresspeople and NRA officers went to Russia for the fake Russia gun rights movement. I assume compromat was collected on many of them.

 

[barbos]

The Republicans have been attacking Clinton for 30 years. The hatred of her was sown for decades and Benghazi and the emails were used as political foils to weaken her.

While Russia definitely wanted to weaken the Clinton Admin, hence the email hack, there is little evidence that suggests Putin thought Trump could actually win. Trump didn't think Trump had a shot in heck. He was ghost faced election night... until some obfuscation was able to convince himself he always wanted the job.

But Koy says Putin ordered Trump to run for POTUS and then made him win nomination and then organized his win over Hillary.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

there is little evidence that suggests Putin thought Trump could actually win.

Irrelevant. There was little evidence that suggests breaking into the DNC at the Watergate would yield anything at all, let alone re-election for Nixon (which was the goal), but failure to achieve a goal rarely stops people from trying.

Regardless, all of the evidence proves that it was the goal to put Trump, in particular, into the WH. And that goal was accomplished by a thin margin--in accordance with all of the research available--combination of young black male voter suppression and poorly educated rural white voter stimulation.

Precisely what the Russian immersion warfare set out to accomplish.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

there is little evidence that suggests Putin thought Trump could actually win.

Irrelevant. There was little evidence that suggests breaking into the DNC at the Watergate would yield anything at all...

I thought they were breaking into doctors offices to steal records.

...let alone re-election for Nixon (which was the goal), but failure to achieve a goal rarely stops people from trying.

If Putin didn't think Trump would win, then it would imply the intent was to weaken the to be Clinton Presidency.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I thought they were breaking into doctors offices to steal records.

You thought incorrectly.

If Putin didn't think Trump would win

You mean, on his own without Putin's help?

then it would imply the intent was to weaken the to be Clinton Presidency.

How would supporting Trump--and not, say Jeb Bush, who was the expected frontrunner and the most obvious and likely choice to defeat Clinton--accomplish in any way a "weakening" of a Clinton presidency? She'd have to deal with alt-right neo-nazi fucktards? Other than the extent of their idiocy, it's never been a surprise that such fucktards suck air in rural America.

Regardless, the strategy proves that Putin not only expected Trump would win, he took calculated measures to ensure it by suppressing black voters while at the same time stimulating alt-right neo-nazi fucktards in key rural counties in a manner that follows the research done in 2012 (and earlier) to the letter. Which, in turn, is evidence that it was not a general fuck shit up strategy.

Iow, he did precisely what ended up causing Trump to get the WH in spite of losing by millions in the popular vote.

The sophistry of "no one attempts to do something because it might not work" is disproved countless times in history. Aside from the abundance of evidence I've posted in my thread on the quantifiable effects of exactly what Russia in turn implemented, Putin had already proved the use of such measures in Russia prior to turning them on the US.

Not to mention the fact that, every single thing adds up in perfect concert with Trump's actions, again, long before the primaries (a good two years prior, in fact, at the very least, with strong evidence indicating a much longer time span). It would be merely coincidental if one or two or even five elements lined up perfectly, but every single element? Over a five year period (that nevertheless actually dates back decades)?

It strains credulity at the very least and when you factor in Mueller's report--at least, what we now know of it and the extraordinary fact that the Trump appointed AG has been placed in contempt because of it--the conclusion is inescapable.

 

[PyramidHead]

It was really shrewd of Putin to also ensure the Congressional elections that year exactly mirrored what we'd expect to see if the gerrymandered US voting population naturally skewed toward Trump's brand of Republican populism on its own

 

[Gun Nut]

I thought they were breaking into doctors offices to steal records.

perhaps... just like the perpetrators of the Target breech were 'just' looking for HVAC maintenance records.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I thought they were breaking into doctors offices to steal records.

perhaps... just like the perpetrators of the Target breech were 'just' looking for HVAC maintenance records.

The doctors were psychiatrists (in relation to my following post correction) and the documents were to be used to black mail Democrat officials. What in the heck are you on about?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You thought incorrectly.

My bad. This is what I was thinking of. Related, but not Watergate, I'll correct the paper work in my head.

Mr. Hunt urged us to carry out a “covert operation” to get a “mother lode” of information about Mr. Ells-berg’s mental state, to discredit him, by breaking into the office of his psychiatrist, Dr. Lewis Fielding. Mr. Liddy told us the F.B.I. had frequently carried out such covert operations — a euphemism for burglaries — in national security investigations, that he had even done some himself.

...

On Sept. 3, 1971, burglars broke into Dr. Fielding’s Beverly Hills office to photograph the files, but found nothing related to Mr. Ellsberg.

then it would imply the intent was to weaken the to be Clinton Presidency.

How would supporting Trump--and not, say Jeb Bush, who was the expected frontrunner and the most obvious and likely choice to defeat Clinton--accomplish in any way a "weakening" of a Clinton presidency?

You mean other than hacking DNC emails and releasing them to the public? Putin was more fighting against Clinton than fighting for Trump. Trump was the benefactor.

Regardless, the strategy proves that Putin not only expected Trump would win, he took calculated measures to ensure it by suppressing black voters while at the same time stimulating alt-right neo-nazi fucktards in key rural counties in a manner that follows the research done in 2012 (and earlier) to the letter. Which, in turn, is evidence that it was not a general fuck shit up strategy.

Where was the black vote suppressed?

The sophistry of "no one attempts to do something because it might not work" is disproved countless times in history.

It'd be nice if you responded to what I actually said. My statement is that Putin was more interested in harming a Clinton Presidency, and the Trump election was a bonus, much like bin Laden wanted to strike the WTC towers, the collapse was the bonus.

Not to mention the fact that, every single thing adds up in perfect concert with Trump's actions, again, long before the primaries (a good two years prior, in fact, at the very least, with strong evidence indicating a much longer time span). It would be merely coincidental if one or two or even five elements lined up perfectly, but every single element? Over a five year period (that nevertheless actually dates back decades)?

There is definitely some very odd things going on regarding Putin and Trump. Trump's joint conference with Putin or Trump giving Israeli intel to the Russians was pretty much unprecedented. I think you are concluding too much on inference though. If it were open shut, it'd be in the Mueller Report.

It strains credulity at the very least and when you factor in Mueller's report--at least, what we now know of it and the extraordinary fact that the Trump appointed AG has been placed in contempt because of it--the conclusion is inescapable.

If Trump was in with Putin, there wouldn't have been such a need for his "coffee boys" to hook up with Russia.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

It was really shrewd of Putin to also ensure the Congressional elections that year exactly mirrored what we'd expect to see if the gerrymandered US voting population naturally skewed toward Trump's brand of Republican populism on its own

Funny you say "mirrored":

[T]he total vote differential between the two parties for elections to the House in 2016 was 1.2 percent. But the difference in the number of seats is 10.8 percent, giving a total of 21 extra seats to Republicans.
...
In red states (see Figure 2), Republicans garnered 56 percent of the vote but 74.6 percent of representation. In blue states, Democrats won 60.3 percent of the vote but 69.1 percent of representation.
...
Two states are “flipped blue states;”in Virginia and Wisconsin Republicans received a majority of seats despite Democrats winning a majority of the votes for Congress.