"Sanders supporters have weaponized Facebook"

[ZiprHead]

42% of Yang supporters say "No" to supporting Dem candidate.

Half of nothing is still nothing.

Yang got about 5% in the Emerson poll... or 22 people out of about 450 polled. We are talking Ron Paul kingmaker stuff here.

So almost half of Yang supporters are self important tools too.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yang got about 5% in the Emerson poll... or 22 people out of about 450 polled. We are talking Ron Paul kingmaker stuff here.

So almost half of Yang supporters are self important tools too.

About 1/8th of Sanders supporters said they'd reject the Democrat nominee if not Sanders, so Yang supporters are notably worse.

 

[PyramidHead]

Did you read what I said? I don't vote for colors or parties, I vote for policy agendas. If you do the same, and you happen to prefer a candidate with a policy agenda different than mine, then you should vote for that candidate. But I have no obligation to vote for him or her, because I don't signal how enlightened and above-the-fray I am by constantly calling for Dem unity.

If you're so worried about Bernie's supporters staying home if he isn't nominated, and those votes were enough to cost Clinton the election in 2016, hand-wringing and name-calling are far less effective coping strategies than the obvious one: put all your weight behind supporting Bernie and get those votes. Yes, it feels better to call them babies, yes, you will have to spend time with people you don't like, but surely you're mature enough to put such things aside when the alternative is a Trump victory, right? If you're so concerned about that outcome, and have no ability to change the minds of the Bernie voters who won't show up if he doesn't get nominated, then why don't you do what's best for the country instead of gnashing your teeth about things you can't change? Surely you agree that now is not the time for a purity test, when Trump is running for POTUS!

So is laughing dog supposed to be expected to vote for Sanders in the General Election if Sanders doesn't win the primary?

No: make sure Sanders gets the nomination, otherwise half his base will vote for someone else or stay home in the general. We're holding you hostage and you have no leverage apart from admitting you don't actually want to beat Trump as much as you say you do.

 

[Gun Nut]

In the continuing argument regarding Sanders v. the rest of the Democratic candidates, I thought this might be relevant. This is exactly what my neighbor was confronted with when she visited a Sanders site on Facebook. And please don't give me some shit about Bezos. Bezos bought The Washington Post to save it from bankruptcy, but he doesn't write for WaPo.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/01/24/facebook-is-inflaming-divides-tearing-democratic-party/

No other Democrat’s supporters are engaged in behavior on a similar scale, which is more characteristic of the online movement galvanized by Trump. The president’s campaign aides have credited Facebook with his victory in 2016, when he poured money into advertising on the platform while also using organic posts on social media to speak directly to his followers, who responded with a torrent of posts backing him and lacerating his opponents.

The above are just a few quotes from the article, but you get the idea. I'm not saying that Sanders himself is the problem, but it appears as if many of his supporters are real similar to Trump supporters but the way they attack those who have different views. This is no way to unite a party or to win an election.

IF a mod thinks this should be merged with another thread about Sanders, I have no problem with that. I'm just trying to provide information to help people understand some of the reasons why the Sanders campaign has become so controversial. It makes it very difficult for decent people to support a candidate who has this type of base. It makes one wonder if Sanders actually wants to represent the entire country, or if like Trump, he will only cater to his base. I at least have hopes that if Sanders were to become president, he'd have to move toward the middle absolutely nothing will get done, especially when you consider that he does not represent the majority of Americans. I"m not sure that anyone can defeat Trump at this point, but creating such divisiveness in one's own party is destructive and makes it even harder to win.

The article conflates "Bernie Supporter" with "anyone with a cellphone that wants to post like a russian bot".
Clicking "create account" does not make someone ideologically a member of any particular group (except the group "internet user").

 

[ZiprHead]

Yang got about 5% in the Emerson poll... or 22 people out of about 450 polled. We are talking Ron Paul kingmaker stuff here.

So almost half of Yang supporters are self important tools too.

About 1/8th of Sanders supporters said they'd reject the Democrat nominee if not Sanders, so Yang supporters are notably worse.

I suspect there are far more Bernie supporters than Yang supporters in that won't vote boat.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Did you read what I said? I don't vote for colors or parties, I vote for policy agendas. If you do the same, and you happen to prefer a candidate with a policy agenda different than mine, then you should vote for that candidate. But I have no obligation to vote for him or her, because I don't signal how enlightened and above-the-fray I am by constantly calling for Dem unity.

If you're so worried about Bernie's supporters staying home if he isn't nominated, and those votes were enough to cost Clinton the election in 2016, hand-wringing and name-calling are far less effective coping strategies than the obvious one: put all your weight behind supporting Bernie and get those votes. Yes, it feels better to call them babies, yes, you will have to spend time with people you don't like, but surely you're mature enough to put such things aside when the alternative is a Trump victory, right? If you're so concerned about that outcome, and have no ability to change the minds of the Bernie voters who won't show up if he doesn't get nominated, then why don't you do what's best for the country instead of gnashing your teeth about things you can't change? Surely you agree that now is not the time for a purity test, when Trump is running for POTUS!

So is laughing dog supposed to be expected to vote for Sanders in the General Election if Sanders doesn't win the primary?

No: make sure Sanders gets the nomination, otherwise half his base will vote for someone else or stay home in the general. We're holding you hostage and you have no leverage apart from admitting you don't actually want to beat Trump as much as you say you do.

Sounds somewhat hypocritical, but you go Bro.

 

[laughing dog]

Did you read what I said? I don't vote for colors or parties, I vote for policy agendas. If you do the same, and you happen to prefer a candidate with a policy agenda different than mine, then you should vote for that candidate. But I have no obligation to vote for him or her, because I don't signal how enlightened and above-the-fray I am by constantly calling for Dem unity.

If you're so worried about Bernie's supporters staying home if he isn't nominated, and those votes were enough to cost Clinton the election in 2016, hand-wringing and name-calling are far less effective coping strategies than the obvious one: put all your weight behind supporting Bernie and get those votes. Yes, it feels better to call them babies, yes, you will have to spend time with people you don't like, but surely you're mature enough to put such things aside when the alternative is a Trump victory, right? If you're so concerned about that outcome, and have no ability to change the minds of the Bernie voters who won't show up if he doesn't get nominated, then why don't you do what's best for the country instead of gnashing your teeth about things you can't change? Surely you agree that now is not the time for a purity test, when Trump is running for POTUS!

I asked a simple question that required a simple answer, and I get more Bernie Bro babble.

I will rephrase my question. In the unlikely event that the Democrats do something incredibly stupid and nominate someone for President other than Savior Sanders, are you willing to educate the rightly disappointed Sanders supporters into voting blue?

No, because I don't vote blue no matter who. I'm one of those narcissistic babies you have no choice but to accommodate, lest you reveal yourself as caring more about purity than beating Trump. Was that somehow not obvious from what I said?

To be honest, it was hard to wade through that incoherent argument. Even now, the only people worried about purity are Bernie bros.

Unlike you, if Bernie becomes the nominee, I will vote for him even though I think it will be pretty much a waste of time as POTUS because, at least, he will not be Trump.

But thanks for confirming that some Bernie bros really don't care about defeating Trump.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Russian "bots" can weaponize Facebook because apparently Americans can't think for themselves, or so some would have to believe. It's really not that. It's really a convenient excuse for the Dems to point fingers at without actually considering what they can change about themselves to attract more support.

Europe as well. Seriously, you clearly aren't paying attention to much of anything.

Are your minds really so weak that you let Facebook tell you who to vote for? Sure, there are Russian efforts to influence your elections. The reverse is also true. It's not like Russia is invading your country with soldiers to effect regime change the way that your countries do to others

But oh no the Russians have Facebook accounts. The horror! Meanwhile you still have the electoral college and corruption running wild in Washington.

 

[PyramidHead]

No: make sure Sanders gets the nomination, otherwise half his base will vote for someone else or stay home in the general. We're holding you hostage and you have no leverage apart from admitting you don't actually want to beat Trump as much as you say you do.

Sounds somewhat hypocritical, but you go Bro.

It's just the logical conclusion of any analysis that holds Bernie voters responsible for 2016. If you don't like it, you have to give up one of the following premises:

1. Bernie's base voting for someone other than Clinton gave Trump the election in 2016
2. You will vote for any Democratic candidate in 2020, even if it isn't your favorite
3. Bernie's supporters are the most likely to not vote/vote for someone else if he isn't the nominee

You cannot hold all three of these views and not support Bernie Sanders as the nominee. I don't hold any of them, by the way. I'm just telling you what the logical implication of your own claims is.

 

[ZiprHead]

Russian "bots" can weaponize Facebook because apparently Americans can't think for themselves, or so some would have to believe. It's really not that. It's really a convenient excuse for the Dems to point fingers at without actually considering what they can change about themselves to attract more support.

Europe as well. Seriously, you clearly aren't paying attention to much of anything.

Are your minds really so weak that you let Facebook tell you who to vote for? Sure, there are Russian efforts to influence your elections. The reverse is also true. It's not like Russia is invading your country with soldiers to effect regime change the way that your countries do to others

But oh no the Russians have Facebook accounts. The horror! Meanwhile you still have the electoral college and corruption running wild in Washington.

You do know that advertising and public pressure do work, right?

And it's not so much a matter of who to vote for, it's more a matter of encouragement to stay home on voting day.

 

[laughing dog]

Russian "bots" can weaponize Facebook because apparently Americans can't think for themselves, or so some would have to believe. It's really not that. It's really a convenient excuse for the Dems to point fingers at without actually considering what they can change about themselves to attract more support.

Europe as well. Seriously, you clearly aren't paying attention to much of anything.

Are your minds really so weak that you let Facebook tell you who to vote for? Sure, there are Russian efforts to influence your elections. The reverse is also true. It's not like Russia is invading your country with soldiers to effect regime change the way that your countries do to others.

As a group, our minds are strong enough to realize that there are people whose minds are influenced by information and perception gleaned from their environment which may include Facebook.

 

[PyramidHead]

But thanks for confirming that some Bernie bros really don't care about defeating Trump.

I never claimed otherwise. Bernie's supporters are disproportionately enriched with people smart enough to know that Biden would be no better than Trump, and probably would be worse in the long run.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I think the idea of the Bernie supporter who would refuse to vote for any other candidate is pretty much BS. Yea, there is a small percentage that might be stupid and either not vote or vote for someone other than the Democratic party's nominee, but I think you would find that with just about any primary candidate, and it certainly is unlikely to be a majority.

View attachment 25851

Exactly. And amazingly this complaint only rises against Sanders.... When a bunch of Hillary supporters did it regarding Obama (and she herself was hesitant to say she would vote Bernie over Trump), and there is no reason whatsoever to expect the same would not happen with some Biden supporters regarding Bernie.

The point only comes up against Bernie supporters. I wonder why that is.

 

[laughing dog]

No: make sure Sanders gets the nomination, otherwise half his base will vote for someone else or stay home in the general. We're holding you hostage and you have no leverage apart from admitting you don't actually want to beat Trump as much as you say you do.

Sounds somewhat hypocritical, but you go Bro.

It's just the logical conclusion of any analysis that holds Bernie voters responsible for 2016. If you don't like it, you have to give up one of the following premises:

1. Bernie's base voting for someone other than Clinton gave Trump the election in 2016
2. You will vote for any Democratic candidate in 2020, even if it isn't your favorite
3. Bernie's supporters are the most likely to not vote/vote for someone else if he isn't the nominee

You cannot hold all three of these views and not support Bernie Sanders as the nominee. I don't hold any of them, by the way. I'm just telling you what the logical implication of your own claims is.

That is untrue. First, people need not be logical. Second, your claim is based on a false premise (no 1). Third, your "implication" does not follow logically from your three premises.

 

[laughing dog]

But thanks for confirming that some Bernie bros really don't care about defeating Trump.

I never claimed otherwise. Bernie's supporters are disproportionately enriched with people smart enough to know that Biden would be no better than Trump, and probably would be worse in the long run.

I guess we have a different notion of "smart enough", because I think anyone who truly believes Biden would be no better than Trump and probably worse than Trump in the long-run has not been paying attention to Trump's SCOTUS nominee or anything else.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

From above:

42% of Yang supporters say "No" to supporting Dem candidate.
16% of Sanders supporters say "No" to supporting Dem candidate

So Yang is getting some offshoot wing of the Democrat Party support. Warren, Buttigieg, Biden are a lot more friendly to the general election Candidate, while Sanders supporters are probably going to vote for the Democrat.

Yang is an odd and special case. His appeal is cross-party. He has converted a bunch of voters away from Trump and he has attracted some normal Republicans too. His focus on the economy and the fourth industrial Revolution and automation is doing that. So yes, he gets the votes of a lot of people no other Democrat will get.

A problem with the VBNMW mantra is that there are many voters who are not party loyalists. There are independents and Republicans and even Trump supporters whose votes are up for grabs.

 

[PyramidHead]

It's just the logical conclusion of any analysis that holds Bernie voters responsible for 2016. If you don't like it, you have to give up one of the following premises:

1. Bernie's base voting for someone other than Clinton gave Trump the election in 2016
2. You will vote for any Democratic candidate in 2020, even if it isn't your favorite
3. Bernie's supporters are the most likely to not vote/vote for someone else if he isn't the nominee

You cannot hold all three of these views and not support Bernie Sanders as the nominee. I don't hold any of them, by the way. I'm just telling you what the logical implication of your own claims is.

That is untrue. First, people need not be logical.

 

[laughing dog]

The point only comes up against Bernie supporters. I wonder why that is.

Because they openly admit to it. And, even if HRC supporters did it to Obama, Obama won.

 

[PyramidHead]

The point only comes up against Bernie supporters. I wonder why that is.

Because they openly admit to it. And, even if HRC supporters did it to Obama, Obama won.

I wonder why...

 

[laughing dog]

It's just the logical conclusion of any analysis that holds Bernie voters responsible for 2016. If you don't like it, you have to give up one of the following premises:

1. Bernie's base voting for someone other than Clinton gave Trump the election in 2016
2. You will vote for any Democratic candidate in 2020, even if it isn't your favorite
3. Bernie's supporters are the most likely to not vote/vote for someone else if he isn't the nominee

You cannot hold all three of these views and not support Bernie Sanders as the nominee. I don't hold any of them, by the way. I'm just telling you what the logical implication of your own claims is.

That is untrue. First, people need not be logical.

That one broke all irony meters past, present and future.