School speech pathologist fired for refusing to sign Israel oath

[Arctish]

The Transfer Committee of the Jewish Agency started planning the forcible removal of Palestinians in the 1930s. Plan Dalet was their handiwork. It was implemented months before the Declaration was made. So you tell me, Loren: at what point in time and in what way did the Zionists who created Israel encourage non-Jews to stay inside their planned Jewish State?

Once again, the existence of plans for <x> does not mean the entity that made those plans wants to do <x>.

When did the Zionist founders of Israel decide to encourage non-Jews to stay? Was it before Plan Dalet was developed? Was it before the plan to ship Palestinians off to Iraq? Please be specific, and provide a source.

While Wikipedia is ok with clear facts like the list I cited it's horribly biased on stuff like this.

IOW, you use Wikipedia as a source when it says something you agree with and reject it when it doesn't.

I think you would feel differently if it was an uppity black woman faced with a white man telling her where here place was.

I think your arguments would be vastly improved if you made an effort to learn about a situation before you jumped to conclusions.

The problem is your answer to the issue seems to be the Jews should simply accept their second class status. Thus what's different about this situation and the blacks in the Jim Crow era?

I think the problem you have with my response is I'm not buying your bullshit arguments and keep asking you to provide evidence.

You said things blew up when Jewish citizens of the Ottoman Empire refused to accept being second-class citizens. Make your case. Start by posing information on Jewish life in Palestine during the 4 centuries of Ottoman rule and show us how and why it can accurately be described as oppression. Then show us the documentation of Palestinian Jews refusing to be 'second class citizens' anymore.

Don't just say it, show it.

If you want to support a claim about life for Jews under Ottoman rule, you're going to have to do actual research. You're going to have to follow links, read articles, and compile facts. And you're going to have to cite incidents or describe situations that existed before the Empire fell.

You realize data from that far back is going to be very incomplete and likely show the bias of whoever compiled it?

I do. That's why I try to get a broader perspective by checking out multiple sources and seeking out information from historians and researchers.

I like history. I like learning interesting facts about people and places. I like following links and seeing where they lead, like the link in the Tel Hai article that led to the article on the Lion of Judah statue raised in honor of Joseph Trumpledor, and this article that explains why he was so highly regarded. That guy was a badass!

I once started a thread on Jewish life under Ottoman rule and invited you to participate in it. I wanted us to talk about what is known about that historical period, what is documented, what can be shown to have actually happened, and the best of educated guesses why it did. I'm still interested in having that discussion. I think it would be really interesting to see how the Ottomans managed to sustain a vast, pluralistic society for so long, and what it was like to be a minority in Palestine in those days. But if all you're going to do is make baseless assertions and post Zionist boilerplate, I won't bother trying again.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

When did the Zionist founders of Israel decide to encourage non-Jews to stay? Was it before Plan Dalet was developed? Was it before the plan to ship Palestinians off to Iraq? Please be specific, and provide a source.

I just pointed out the existence of plans doesn't mean they intend to carry them out or even desire to carry them out. It's called contingency planning.

While Wikipedia is ok with clear facts like the list I cited it's horribly biased on stuff like this.

IOW, you use Wikipedia as a source when it says something you agree with and reject it when it doesn't.

On things which are not political, Wikipedia is quite good. It does occasionally suffer from favoring the crowd over the authoritative source but those are rare.

On lists of events or other things which are equally clear cut, Wikipedia is reasonably good.

On things which are political and not very clear cut it's got major bias problems.

The problem is your answer to the issue seems to be the Jews should simply accept their second class status. Thus what's different about this situation and the blacks in the Jim Crow era?

I think the problem you have with my response is I'm not buying your bullshit arguments and keep asking you to provide evidence.

But you're demanding an impossible standard of evidence.

You said things blew up when Jewish citizens of the Ottoman Empire refused to accept being second-class citizens. Make your case. Start by posing information on Jewish life in Palestine during the 4 centuries of Ottoman rule and show us how and why it can accurately be described as oppression. Then show us the documentation of Palestinian Jews refusing to be 'second class citizens' anymore.

Don't just say it, show it.

It's not just Jews in Israel. Look at how non-Muslims are treated in any Muslim-controlled area.

 

[Arctish]

I just pointed out the existence of plans doesn't mean they intend to carry them out or even desire to carry them out. It's called contingency planning.

It does when the Agency making those plans tries to drum up international and financial support for them. It does when those plans are central to that Agency achieving a core aspect of their goal. It does when those plans are implemented.

IOW, you use Wikipedia as a source when it says something you agree with and reject it when it doesn't.

On things which are not political, Wikipedia is quite good. It does occasionally suffer from favoring the crowd over the authoritative source but those are rare.

On lists of events or other things which are equally clear cut, Wikipedia is reasonably good.

On things which are political and not very clear cut it's got major bias problems.[/QUOTE

And that's why the last time we talked about this I suggested you use it as a starting point and do your own research.

The problem is your answer to the issue seems to be the Jews should simply accept their second class status. Thus what's different about this situation and the blacks in the Jim Crow era?

I think the problem you have with my response is I'm not buying your bullshit arguments and keep asking you to provide evidence.

But you're demanding an impossible standard of evidence.

No.

I'm asking you to support your claims with evidence. That evidence might be in the form of books and articles written by historians, researchers, and journalists, or museum collections, or old newspaper articles. It might come straight from the Jewish Virtual Library, or My Jewish Learning, or MEMRI, or the New York Times, or the Jerusalem Post, or Scientific American, or some source other than your own imagination.

If you're finding it impossible to find evidence to support a claim, that probably means your claim isn't accurate or the facts are unknown. It might even mean your claim is nonsense. Either way you'd be doing yourself a favor by learning something about what really happened. If you still wish to make that claim then you really should use the abbreviation IMO to indicate it's your opinion and stop pretending your post is factual.

You said things blew up when Jewish citizens of the Ottoman Empire refused to accept being second-class citizens. Make your case. Start by posing information on Jewish life in Palestine during the 4 centuries of Ottoman rule and show us how and why it can accurately be described as oppression. Then show us the documentation of Palestinian Jews refusing to be 'second class citizens' anymore.

Don't just say it, show it.

It's not just Jews in Israel. Look at how non-Muslims are treated in any Muslim-controlled area.

You made a claim about Jews living under Ottoman rule. If you're not interested in that historical period, fine. Just stop pretending you actually bothered to learn anything about them or their experiences.