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Science and the Bible: The Firmament

firmament.jpg

The concept of a metallic dome over the Earth is not rooted in biblical teaching. Instead, it originates from the theology and "science" (more appropriately termed philosophy, given the context of the time) of the Dark Ages. This notion can be refuted by examining the scriptures, where such a concept is entirely absent.

A key point of confusion arises from the translation of Genesis 1:6. Here, the Hebrew word raqia, meaning "spreading out," is translated as "expanse." The root word raqa, from which raqia derives, sometimes implies "beating out," leading to further misunderstanding. The Greek Septuagint translates raqia as stereoma, meaning "a firm and solid structure." This translation influenced the Latin Vulgate to use the term firmamentum, reflecting the contemporary belief in a metallic dome with sluice holes from which rain would fall.

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia clarifies this misconception, stating: "But this assumption is in reality based more upon the ideas prevalent in Europe during the Dark Ages than upon any actual statements in the Old Testament." (Edited by J. Orr, 1960, Vol. I, p. 314). For instance, Job 36:27-28 describes the water cycle without any reference to the Dark Ages' concept of sluice holes.​
 
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The concept of a metallic dome over the Earth is not rooted in biblical teaching. Instead, it originates from the theology and "science" (more appropriately termed philosophy, given the context of the time) of the Dark Ages. This notion can be refuted by examining the scriptures, where such a concept is entirely absent.

A key point of confusion arises from the translation of Genesis 1:6. Here, the Hebrew word raqia, meaning "spreading out," is translated as "expanse." The root word raqa, from which raqia derives, sometimes implies "beating out," leading to further misunderstanding. The Greek Septuagint translates raqia as stereoma, meaning "a firm and solid structure." This translation influenced the Latin Vulgate to use the term firmamentum, reflecting the contemporary belief in a metallic dome with sluice holes from which rain would fall.

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia clarifies this misconception, stating: "But this assumption is in reality based more upon the ideas prevalent in Europe during the Dark Ages than upon any actual statements in the Old Testament." (Edited by J. Orr, 1960, Vol. I, p. 314). For instance, Job 36:27-28 describes the water cycle without any reference to the Dark Ages' concept of sluice holes.​
The idea of a solid dome over the Earth is not a product of the Dark Ages—it originates from ancient Near Eastern cosmology, which influenced biblical writers. The concept appears in cultures surrounding ancient Israel, including Babylonian, Egyptian, and Sumerian texts, which describe the sky as a solid structure holding back waters above.

The Hebrew word raqia does mean “expanse,” but its root raqa means “to spread out by hammering,” often used to describe metals being beaten into a sheet. In ancient understanding, the sky was perceived as a firm structure separating waters above from waters below. The Greek stereoma and Latin firmamentum reinforced this interpretation. The claim that this idea stems only from the Dark Ages ignores historical linguistic and cultural evidence.

The Bible itself contains verses that align with this view. Job 37:18 speaks of God spreading out the skies as “strong as a molten mirror.” Ezekiel 1:22 describes a firm and dazzling expanse over the heads of the cherubim. These are consistent with the idea of a solid dome.

NHC
 
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

Given the fact that the water on this planet originated from space and was delivered to the surface by extraterrestrial water-bearing meteors and planetoids during the early period of the formation of the solar system, it appears that the design of the firmament is faulty and unsuitable for the task for which it was designed. Imagine if you hired a contractor to build a roof over your home and the roof let in water which flooded your home the first time it rained - would you fire the contractor and pay his bills? Yet Christians praise God every chance they get, ignoring all the defects in Her design and construction methods.
 
When I taught Sunday School, I told the youngsters to picture it as a sky diaper. I had a tarp stretched above their heads, and my assistant pelted them with water balloons. When we got to Exodus, I explained manna as sky cookies, and my assistant hurled macaroons at their heads. Near the end of the year, one of the kids told us that his little brother -- Tiny Tim -- was diagnosed with skeletal tuberculosis, and had to undergo bone grafts. I told them that Jesus promised to do anything -- yes anything -- they asked, if they asked in his name, so we used the rest of the class to pray in his name for Tiny Tim, who unfortunately died on the operating table. What could I tell them, the next week? I simply said, "Jesus really owes you one," and left it at that. My assistant was later arrested for assault, but I was named Sunday School Teacher of the Century by the Southern Baptist Convention and given an embossed ceramic plate.
Think sky diaper, and you'll get it right.
 
When I taught Sunday School, I told the youngsters to picture it as a sky diaper. I had a tarp stretched above their heads, and my assistant pelted them with water balloons. When we got to Exodus, I explained manna as sky cookies, and my assistant hurled macaroons at their heads. Near the end of the year, one of the kids told us that his little brother -- Tiny Tim -- was diagnosed with skeletal tuberculosis, and had to undergo bone grafts. I told them that Jesus promised to do anything -- yes anything -- they asked, if they asked in his name, so we used the rest of the class to pray in his name for Tiny Tim, who unfortunately died on the operating table. What could I tell them, the next week? I simply said, "Jesus really owes you one," and left it at that. My assistant was later arrested for assault, but I was named Sunday School Teacher of the Century by the Southern Baptist Convention and given an embossed ceramic plate.
Think sky diaper, and you'll get it right.
Coffee went flying after I read this—absolutely hilarious, but I feel bad for Tiny.

NHC
 
View attachment 49782

The concept of a metallic dome over the Earth is not rooted in biblical teaching. Instead, it originates from the theology and "science" (more appropriately termed philosophy, given the context of the time) of the Dark Ages. This notion can be refuted by examining the scriptures, where such a concept is entirely absent.

A key point of confusion arises from the translation of Genesis 1:6. Here, the Hebrew word raqia, meaning "spreading out," is translated as "expanse." The root word raqa, from which raqia derives, sometimes implies "beating out," leading to further misunderstanding. The Greek Septuagint translates raqia as stereoma, meaning "a firm and solid structure." This translation influenced the Latin Vulgate to use the term firmamentum, reflecting the contemporary belief in a metallic dome with sluice holes from which rain would fall.

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia clarifies this misconception, stating: "But this assumption is in reality based more upon the ideas prevalent in Europe during the Dark Ages than upon any actual statements in the Old Testament." (Edited by J. Orr, 1960, Vol. I, p. 314). For instance, Job 36:27-28 describes the water cycle without any reference to the Dark Ages' concept of sluice holes.​

Whoever 'clarified' the 'misconception' must not have done their research.

Isaiah 45:18: ...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast..

Job 22:12: Surely God is at the zenith of the heavens [shamayim] and looks down on all the stars, high as they are.

Thick clouds veil him, so he does not see us as he goes about in the vaulted heavens.' Job 22:14

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. Isaiah 40:22

Can you beat out (raqa) the vault of the skies, as he does, hard as a mirror of cast metal (Job 37:18)

Clouds are a hiding place for Him, so that He cannot see; And He walks on the vault of heaven.' Job 22:14
 
The idea of a solid dome over the Earth is not a product of the Dark Ages—it originates from ancient Near Eastern cosmology, which influenced biblical writers. The concept appears in cultures surrounding ancient Israel, including Babylonian, Egyptian, and Sumerian texts, which describe the sky as a solid structure holding back waters above.

Let's see them. You must have seen them. How were they used. Show us, if possible, without a remarkable feat of verbosity even by comparison to me,

The Hebrew word raqia does mean “expanse,” but its root raqa means “to spread out by hammering,” often used to describe metals being beaten into a sheet. In ancient understanding, the sky was perceived as a firm structure separating waters above from waters below. The Greek stereoma and Latin firmamentum reinforced this interpretation. The claim that this idea stems only from the Dark Ages ignores historical linguistic and cultural evidence.

Read it. It doesn't say the idea stems only from the Dark Ages. It's talking about images like the Flammarion engraving which appeared in Bibles and Bible dictionaries of that time. Considering historical, linguistic and cultural evidence doesn't really mean reading somewhere the words that appear throughout and taking them extremely literal. If I say I'm about to kick the bucket it doesn't likely have anything to do with pigs, does it? Literally. It all comes from the same place. We don't call it Jupiter and July for nothing. Literally.

The Bible itself contains verses that align with this view. Job 37:18 speaks of God spreading out the skies as “strong as a molten mirror.” Ezekiel 1:22 describes a firm and dazzling expanse over the heads of the cherubim. These are consistent with the idea of a solid dome.

That's a thoroughly exhaustive examination for you. Over the heads of what? What about birds? Did they fly around in this, this metal dome hammered out laterally? Sorry, literally? When you read something in the Bible that doesn't give you your answer unless you are looking for that answer. Think of it like a doctor. There are various kinds, some good, some bad and some from long ago.
 
When I taught Sunday School, I told the youngsters to picture it as a sky diaper. I had a tarp stretched above their heads, and my assistant pelted them with water balloons. When we got to Exodus, I explained manna as sky cookies, and my assistant hurled macaroons at their heads. Near the end of the year, one of the kids told us that his little brother -- Tiny Tim -- was diagnosed with skeletal tuberculosis, and had to undergo bone grafts. I told them that Jesus promised to do anything -- yes anything -- they asked, if they asked in his name, so we used the rest of the class to pray in his name for Tiny Tim, who unfortunately died on the operating table. What could I tell them, the next week? I simply said, "Jesus really owes you one," and left it at that. My assistant was later arrested for assault, but I was named Sunday School Teacher of the Century by the Southern Baptist Convention and given an embossed ceramic plate.
Think sky diaper, and you'll get it right.

And since then, you've wised up. For example, God, who cursed us all to sickness and death, probably isn't going to heal you, is he.
 
When DLH types on his keyboard a little adrenaline flows, he gets excited. He has a purpose battling atheists in his otherwise empty and meaningless reality.

As I have always said there are positives and negatives to religious faith. On the pl;us side it gives people meaning in a meaningless existence. It enhances quality of life, hope.

The gospel message, believe in Jesus, bear your burdens, and you will have an eternal glorious existence in a heaven. Hope for the future.

DLH is not hard to figure out. As much as he says he rejects Christians and religious ideology he is very obvious.
 
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When DLH types on his keyboard a little adrenaline flows, he gets excited. He has a purpose battling atheists in his otherwise empty and meaningless reality.

As I have always said there are positives and negatives to religious faith. On the pl;us side it gives people meaning in a meaningless existence. It enhances quality of life, hope.

The gospel message, believe in Jesus, bear your burdens, and you will have an eternal glorious existence in a heaven. Hope for the future.

DLH is not hard to figure out. As much as he says he rejects Christians and religious ideology he is very obvious.

All I have EVER done is try to be nice to you! And what do I get?! Projection, criticism, dissin' me and yet my response? Love. And forgiveness.

And this.



I've been working on something especially for you I will post today.
 
DLH

Way back on your first threads clearly you were on a mission to antagonize us ideological supid atheists.

I seriously doubt you can say anything that will actually impact any of us ideological atheists.

I post on the forum to stay active, mnetal exercise.

And now you are playing the victim.....

Uhhh.. Cry Me A Rive?



Not to worry brother, Yahweh and Jesuss loves you.
 
The idea of a solid dome over the Earth is not a product of the Dark Ages—it originates from ancient Near Eastern cosmology, which influenced biblical writers. The concept appears in cultures surrounding ancient Israel, including Babylonian, Egyptian, and Sumerian texts, which describe the sky as a solid structure holding back waters above.

Let's see them. You must have seen them. How were they used. Show us, if possible, without a remarkable feat of verbosity even by comparison to me,

The Hebrew word raqia does mean “expanse,” but its root raqa means “to spread out by hammering,” often used to describe metals being beaten into a sheet. In ancient understanding, the sky was perceived as a firm structure separating waters above from waters below. The Greek stereoma and Latin firmamentum reinforced this interpretation. The claim that this idea stems only from the Dark Ages ignores historical linguistic and cultural evidence.

Read it. It doesn't say the idea stems only from the Dark Ages. It's talking about images like the Flammarion engraving which appeared in Bibles and Bible dictionaries of that time. Considering historical, linguistic and cultural evidence doesn't really mean reading somewhere the words that appear throughout and taking them extremely literal. If I say I'm about to kick the bucket it doesn't likely have anything to do with pigs, does it? Literally. It all comes from the same place. We don't call it Jupiter and July for nothing. Literally.

The Bible itself contains verses that align with this view. Job 37:18 speaks of God spreading out the skies as “strong as a molten mirror.” Ezekiel 1:22 describes a firm and dazzling expanse over the heads of the cherubim. These are consistent with the idea of a solid dome.

That's a thoroughly exhaustive examination for you. Over the heads of what? What about birds? Did they fly around in this, this metal dome hammered out laterally? Sorry, literally? When you read something in the Bible that doesn't give you your answer unless you are looking for that answer. Think of it like a doctor. There are various kinds, some good, some bad and some from long ago.

You asked for examples of ancient Near Eastern texts describing the sky as a solid dome. The Babylonian Enuma Elish is one of the clearest sources—it describes the god Marduk splitting the body of the chaos goddess Tiamat in half to form the heavens and the Earth, with her upper half forming a solid barrier holding back the primeval waters above (Tablet IV, lines 135–146). That’s not metaphor—it’s cosmological framework.

In Egyptian cosmology, the sky was often depicted as the goddess Nut, arched over the Earth, supported by the air god Shu, separating the waters above from the land below. Nut wasn’t misty sky; she was shown spanning heaven like a solid vault, her feet and hands touching the Earth.

The Sumerian texts, like those referencing An, the god of the sky, show a division between heaven and Earth as distinct and layered realms, separated by a firm boundary. These aren’t literary idioms or figures of speech. These are cosmological models conveyed in mythological language, and they show continuity with what we find in Genesis and Job.

You rightly noted that Flammarion’s 19th-century engraving is from a much later period. That’s true—it’s an imaginative illustration, not ancient evidence. But I never claimed otherwise. The point is that the concept of the sky as a solid dome predates it by millennia and can be traced through the vocabulary and descriptions used in ancient texts, including the Hebrew Bible.

You mentioned the phrase “kick the bucket” as a caution against reading literally. But idioms are only identifiable as idioms when their usage and context clearly mark them as such. “Kick the bucket” appears in a culture where idioms are defined, listed, and understood not to be literal. Ancient cosmology wasn’t filled with idioms—it was filled with models of how the world was believed to function. When Job 37:18 speaks of the sky being “as hard as a molten mirror,” that is not figurative language in a context of whimsy—it’s part of a broader cosmological picture consistent with other ancient cultures.

The idea that the sky was a solid structure wasn’t a stray metaphor—it was part of a coherent worldview, just like the belief that the Earth was flat and surrounded by a cosmic ocean. Birds in this model didn’t pierce the dome any more than rainwater did—it was the vault below the waters, not the breathable atmosphere.

You’re right: not every verse in the Bible lays out a detailed cosmology. But that’s why we compare verses across the text, and also look outward to the wider ancient world that shaped the writers’ assumptions. The goal isn’t to cherry-pick but to understand the world they believed they lived in—and by every historical and linguistic standard, that included a solid dome overhead.

If we read Job or Genesis or Ezekiel in historical context, rather than retrofitting it to post-Enlightenment cosmology, we find a view of the universe that is strikingly consistent with the ancient Near East—not modern science. That’s not an attack on the text—it’s respect for its cultural roots.

NHC
 
I watched a video lecture series form UCLA on the history of civilization.

Going back to the beginning. Civilizations rise and become powerful. Other cultures are assimilated, and cross polarization of ideas occurs.

The dominant civilization fades and the process repeats. On each cycle knowledge grows

The idea that relatively minor Hebrew culture came up with its religious concepts as unique without any outside influence just from an overview of history makes no sense.

Cultural cross politicization.

Bushido is the chivalric code of moral principles that the Samurai followed: rectitude, courage, benevolence, respect, honesty, honour and loyalty. Influenced by Confucianism, Shinto and Zen Buddhism, it tempers the violence of a warrior with wisdom and serenity.

I knew an Evangelical who ministered ancient Hebrews invested language, rioting, and science.
 
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