Science says Bible and Quran are equivalent

[popsthebuilder]

Christ and Jesus are synonymous in ways. All those ways mean savior and messiah. None of them mean utterly equivalent to the One Creator GOD as a man. Jesus was put on earth for many reasons. Worshipping man as if GOD is not one of them.

Don't get it twisted; Jesus th Christ is the way to God and the direction of men by God's will.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

,

And you maintain that the Quran says that? (IE the bolded sentence) In which verses? And where is Mahommed in this? And why are the Christian "People of the book" still considered to be infidels and treated as such? Or is it that you've got "it twisted"?

I look forward to producing versus the back up my claims. Unfortunately I do not have the time to do it at this moment. I will produce them later tonight though if I'll have time. Lastly, I would like to state that the infidels that you reference in the Quran are hypocrites. They are people that know of the will of God yet also knowingly turn from it in favor of greed and material possession and pride. I will back these claims up when I produce the verses. You asked where Muhammad comes into play in all of this. Muhammad is a messenger of God he was ordained for a particular people and a particular time as all the messengers before him were. Please feel free to post any more questions or oddities that stick out in your mind and I will get to them as well. Peace.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Bomb#20]

Don't get it twisted; Jesus th Christ is the way to God and the direction of men by God's will.

,

And you maintain that the Quran says that? (IE the bolded sentence) In which verses?

In Sura 2:62 it says "Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve."

It's a law of propositional logic that for all P, Q, (P implies (P or Q)). Therefore, the Quran implies that either Christians who believe in God and the Last Day and do right will go to Heaven or else Jesus the Christ is the way to God and the direction of men by God's will. (Or both -- this is not an "exclusive or".)

In Sura 5:72 it says "They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire."

So the Quran also implies Christians will go to Hell even if they believe in God and the Last Day and do right. It's also a law of propositional logic that (((P or Q) and (not P)) implies Q). Since the Quran implies that either Christians who believe in God and the Last Day and do right will go to Heaven or else Jesus the Christ is the way to God and the direction of men by God's will, and Christians will not go to Heaven even if they believe in God and the Last Day and do right, it follows that the Quran implies by elementary boolean algebra that Jesus the Christ is the way to God and the direction of men by God's will. Q.E.D.

Lo! Allah is Able to do all things. -- Sura 35:1 PBUH

 

[DrZoidberg]

Depends entirely on which verses are read and which verses are ignored or disregarded. And context, precisely who these verses are referring to.

In the Quran, there are 27 various verses that claim more or less that Allah predestines all that happens. You get no free will. And Paul claims all is predestined and we get no real free will. God chooses who to grant salvation to and who to damn.

If one takes any of these 'revelations' as being true free will is not possible.

You can't have free will in a universe with an omnipotent agent. Since God has a choice in everything that happens it has made a decision in every case. An omnipotent agent can't chose to leave things alone. It's just simple logic. Yes, it's yet another omnipotence paradox.

 

[DBT]

Aren't you cherry picking when you say - Ultimately the Qur'an speaks of having mercy as God is merciful, and judging with equity as the Lord is just. It also speaks of how Christ is ultimately the judge, and not man - given that some of what is written in the Torah, the bible in general and the Quran is not just, moral, reasonable or selfless?

Not at all. I speak of the main themes of the two based on actually reading them.

So how do you reconcile the verses that depict a vindictive God, a God that orders the killing of people who are not of the same tribe or the same beliefs, with a merciful and just God...if not through ignoring the former and promoting the latter?

 

[4321lynx]

,

And you maintain that the Quran says that? (IE the bolded sentence) In which verses?

In Sura 2:62 it says "Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve."

It's a law of propositional logic that for all P, Q, (P implies (P or Q)). Therefore, the Quran implies that either Christians who believe in God and the Last Day and do right will go to Heaven or else Jesus the Christ is the way to God and the direction of men by God's will. (Or both -- this is not an "exclusive or".)

In Sura 5:72 it says "They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire."

So the Quran also implies Christians will go to Hell even if they believe in God and the Last Day and do right. It's also a law of propositional logic that (((P or Q) and (not P)) implies Q). Since the Quran implies that either Christians who believe in God and the Last Day and do right will go to Heaven or else Jesus the Christ is the way to God and the direction of men by God's will, and Christians will not go to Heaven even if they believe in God and the Last Day and do right, it follows that the Quran implies by elementary boolean algebra that Jesus the Christ is the way to God and the direction of men by God's will. Q.E.D.

Lo! Allah is Able to do all things. -- Sura 35:1 PBUH

So I see - Just as I thought, Boolean algebra is really Mahommedean algebra. Just like the damn white man imperialistic colonialist lies, they cannot stand the thought that an Arab invented that as well as simple algebra, so they claim Boole did. What a lot of Booledust.
Everything means what you want it to mean and any of its possible opposites and halftruths and all of that at the same time or earlier if not later.

The Word of the Lord.

Amen. or Ah... men...

 

[popsthebuilder]

Not at all. I speak of the main themes of the two based on actually reading them.

So how do you reconcile the verses that depict a vindictive God, a God that orders the killing of people who are not of the same tribe or the same beliefs, with a merciful and just God...if not through ignoring the former and promoting the latter?

First you need to produce such verses. And not from the ot

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[DrZoidberg]

So how do you reconcile the verses that depict a vindictive God, a God that orders the killing of people who are not of the same tribe or the same beliefs, with a merciful and just God...if not through ignoring the former and promoting the latter?

First you need to produce such verses. And not from the ot

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Collated for your viewing ease

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

 

[skepticalbip]

So how do you reconcile the verses that depict a vindictive God, a God that orders the killing of people who are not of the same tribe or the same beliefs, with a merciful and just God...if not through ignoring the former and promoting the latter?

First you need to produce such verses. And not from the ot

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

It is odd that you want to ignore the Old Testament since it is supposedly also the WORD OF GOD, after all that is where the ten commandments and hundreds of other laws handed down by god himself is found. But then Revelations is in the New Testament and is full of random smiting, pain, torture, murder, and mayhem - sorta like the Old Testament god on steroids and really pissed.

 

[popsthebuilder]

First you need to produce such verses. And not from the ot

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Collated for your viewing ease

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

What do you want me to do with that? I'm not going to be using a link that could be biased. I get my info from the Qur'an and other core scriptures of the faithful unto GOD. Evidently you haven't read these things within context. You could at least reference verse numbers. Point is; I'm not using the link. I will post things that aren't out of context later, I''ll try to. I've been busy.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[popsthebuilder]

First you need to produce such verses. And not from the ot

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

It is odd that you want to ignore the Old Testament since it is supposedly also the WORD OF GOD, after all that is where the ten commandments and hundreds of other laws handed down by god himself is found. But then Revelations is in the New Testament and is full of random smiting, pain, torture, murder, and mayhem - sorta like the Old Testament god on steroids and really pissed.

I don't ignore the Torah at all. Never said I did. But according to Christ and the Holy Spirit and the Word of God, though all the teachings of Moses may have been right, some of it was misinterpreted somewhere down the line. I do think it is the profitable, inspired Word of GOD, but like I said; some had been twisted into wholly unrecognizable things, more of the will of man than that of God. What about revelation? It mostly speaks to and of the church. Other then that, it speaks of the end of all existence as we know it, and don't.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[DBT]

So how do you reconcile the verses that depict a vindictive God, a God that orders the killing of people who are not of the same tribe or the same beliefs, with a merciful and just God...if not through ignoring the former and promoting the latter?

First you need to produce such verses. And not from the ot

I assumed that you'd be aware of the verses that tell the faithful of Islam to kill non believers.

Just a small example which contradicts both peace and mercy:

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...


Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

 

[DrZoidberg]

Collated for your viewing ease

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

What do you want me to do with that? I'm not going to be using a link that could be biased. I get my info from the Qur'an and other core scriptures of the faithful unto GOD. Evidently you haven't read these things within context. You could at least reference verse numbers. Point is; I'm not using the link. I will post things that aren't out of context later, I''ll try to. I've been busy.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Ehe? It uses the Bible. Super super super easy to verify the claims of that page. On the right you have a list of various immoral acts. Click it and get all the passages where the act is promoted. Then feel free to verify in your own Bible.

A huge problem with any old text on morals is that society has changed. A lot of things we used to think are virtues aren't virtues anymore. That's the problem the Bible has.

Example. When Lot offers his daughters to be raped by a crowd to appease them. Back in the day that was seen as Lot sacrificing something. Today we tend to think that Lot is a horrendous father for aiding and abetting a sexual assault on his own children. Women didn't used to count as independent individuals. They were only extensions of their guardian. That's the world that spawned the Bible. So the parable doesn't work any longer. The Bible is full of this.

 

[popsthebuilder]

DBT,

Let me give a little contextual support for the verses you have chosen, if I can.

2:189. They ask you about the lunar months. Say, ‘They are appointed periods of time for people and for determining the time of Pilgrimage. And it is no virtue that you come into the houses from the backs of them but the true virtue is his who guards against evils. So you should rather enter the houses from their proper doors and take Allâh as a shield so that you may be successful.

Here is a parable tefering to the faulty direction of most and the straight path of the few. Similar to the broad and narrow path described in the Bible.

2:190. And fight in the cause of Allâh those who fight and persecute you, but commit no aggression. Surely, Allâh does not love the aggressors.

And here we see the verse immediately prior to the ones you claim aren't of mercy and peace says to not be aggressive. But to fight in defence.

2:191. And slay them when and where you get the better of them, in disciplinary way, and turn them out whence they have turned you out. Lawlessness is even worse than carnage. But do not fight them in the precincts of Masjid al-Harâm unless they fight you therein. Should they attack you then slay them. This indeed is the recompense of such disbelievers.

Again states lawlessness and carnage are bad but defence is needed. So again not promoting violence.

2:192. But if they desist then, behold, Allâh is indeed Great Protector, Ever Merciful.

That says that if the aggressor stops then show mercy because GOD is merciful to those who show mercy, which could be either or both parties in this case.

2:193. And fight them until persecution is no more and religion is for Allâh. But if they desist then there is no punishment except against the unjust.

Again states to fight against aggressors,not to be the aggressor. And again to show mercy, which brings about peace. Goes so far as to say if the aggressor stops then they are without fault or judgement. That's mercy.

Lets move on.

3:55. When Allâh said, ‘O Jesus! I will cause you to die a natural death, and will exalt you to Myself and I will clear you of the unchaste accusations of those who disbelieve. I am going to make your followers prevail over the disbelievers till the Day of Resurrection, then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge all your differences. 3:56. ‘Then as for those who disbelieve I will punish them sternly in this world and in the Hereafter and they shall have no helpers. 3:57. ‘As for those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, He will pay them their rewards in full. Allâh loves not the unjust.’ 3:58. That is what We recite to you; the Messages and the Reminder full of wisdom. 3:59. Verily, the case of Jesus is as the case of Adam in the sight of Allâh. He fashioned him out of dust, then He said to him, ‘Be’, and he came to be.

This section and whole chapter is about the followers of Christ. It speaks of the judgment of the blasphemous. The one unforgiven sin. It is in reference to those who knowingly go against the will of GOD and lead others astray intentionally. It speaks of those who actually know and do right. The bible says the same thing over and over. A just God would indeed judge those people. It has nothing to do with ignorant people. Or violence or injustice, but speaks of responsibility, duty, and consequence. Justice and mercy aren't synonymous, I agree, but mercy isn't due some.

8:11. When He caused a sort of slumber to prevail upon you to give you a sense of peaceful security from Himself, and He sent down upon you water from the clouds that He might thereby purify you and remove from you the scourge of satan, that He might strengthen your hearts and thereby make your feet firm and strong.
8:12. When your Lord revealed to the angels , ‘I am with you;’ to make those who believe stand firm and fast, and I will indeed strike terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. So smite on necks and above these and strike off all their fingertips.’

8:13. This is because they have cut themselves off from Allâh and His Messenger, and whosoever opposes Allâh and His Messenger, as its result Allâh is Severe in punishment.

These verses are an account of GOD's word to the angels. It again speaks of justice, and the fact that those who blaspheme will be dumb struck and will have no profitable works as a sign to others, and in no way speaks of violence or killing of men by men or in literal terms.

8:67. It does not behove a Prophet to keep captives unless he has triumphed after a regular bloody fighting in the land. You desire the temporary and frail goods of this world, while Allâh desires the Hereafter. And Allâh is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

This is speaking about holding things captive though it is wrong, and excuses it only in the context of literal physical war, as keeping captives in that case is better than killing indiscriminately. Again speaking of mercy.

9:123. O you who believe! Fight such of the disbelievers as dwell near to you and let them find firmness in you and know that Allâh is with those who become secure against evil.

This is in reference to hypocrites posing as faithful. Has to do with strength, and steadfastness, nothing to do with mercy, or the lack there of. Actually condones peace as it says that if they turn from you to continue to rely on GOD.

Anyway, that was fun. I look forward to doing more. It is easy to misinterpret things when taken out of context.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[popsthebuilder]

What do you want me to do with that? I'm not going to be using a link that could be biased. I get my info from the Qur'an and other core scriptures of the faithful unto GOD. Evidently you haven't read these things within context. You could at least reference verse numbers. Point is; I'm not using the link. I will post things that aren't out of context later, I''ll try to. I've been busy.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Ehe? It uses the Bible. Super super super easy to verify the claims of that page. On the right you have a list of various immoral acts. Click it and get all the passages where the act is promoted. Then feel free to verify in your own Bible.

A huge problem with any old text on morals is that society has changed. A lot of things we used to think are virtues aren't virtues anymore. That's the problem the Bible has.

Example. When Lot offers his daughters to be raped by a crowd to appease them. Back in the day that was seen as Lot sacrificing something. Today we tend to think that Lot is a horrendous father for aiding and abetting a sexual assault on his own children. Women didn't used to count as independent individuals. They were only extensions of their guardian. That's the world that spawned the Bible. So the parable doesn't work any longer. The Bible is full of this.

I don't know what you are going on about. The Qur'an and bible are similar and both promote peace, and mercy. If you disagree then post actual verses or actual references. I won't be using a link of any sort for multiple reasons. And saying that any parable is no longer of use is an opinion based on someone else's opinion. If you have an opinion then fine, but at least come to that conclusion on your own.

Thanks,
Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[DBT]

DBT,

Let me give a little contextual support for the verses you have chosen, if I can.

Sorry, but it doesn't work.

The verses I quoted ( there are many more) relate to how non believers were viewed at that time, and how they were to be treated.

I see very little, if any, sign of tolerance or mercy to be found in these verses.

Now, you can argue for context in the sense that this attitude may have applied to that time and place, but not to here and now....and there may be a case to be made.

But given that claim of the Quran as an Allah/God inspired work the context argument doesn't alter the attitude of intolerance and absence of mercy displayed at that time, this time or at any time by an eternal Being, a God.

Allah, if an actual God, cannot chop and change according to human fashions of a time and place. Displaying intolerance and violence one day and switching to so called mercy the next.

If eternal and merciful, Allah is either merciful at all times and all places or only now and then..as the mood strikes.

A single display of intolerance and violence negates the claim to eternal mercy and tolerance, instead sowing confusion, fickleness and intolerance.

 

[popsthebuilder]

DBT,

Let me give a little contextual support for the verses you have chosen, if I can.

Sorry, but it doesn't work.

The verses I quoted ( there are many more) relate to how non believers were viewed at that time, and how they were to be treated.

I see very little, if any, sign of tolerance or mercy to be found in these verses.

Now, you can argue for context in the sense that this attitude may have applied to that time and place, but not to here and now....and there may be a case to be made.

But given that claim of the Quran as an Allah/God inspired work the context argument doesn't alter the attitude of intolerance and absence of mercy displayed at that time, this time or at any time by an eternal Being, a God.

Allah, if an actual God, cannot chop and change according to human fashions of a time and place. Displaying intolerance and violence one day and switching to so called mercy the next.

If eternal and merciful, Allah is either merciful at all times and all places or only now and then..as the mood strikes.

A single display of intolerance and violence negates the claim to eternal mercy and tolerance, instead sowing confusion, fickleness and intolerance.

You really aren't making sense. No verse you quoted showed intolerance or lack of mercy in any way. And who are you to say that God cannot give different commands based on time and culture? God is immutable, man is not. All I can suggest is that you post whatever other verses you think support your claims, because the first ones where taken way out of contexts as I pointed out. And by out of context I mean you displayed them in a manner that in no way reflected their actual subject matter, and then tried to say they didn't promote mercy or peace, which I showed was manipulative and untrue. This is easily seen if you read the verses in context as opposed to picking single verses to support your own wants. I'm trying to give you a chance to redeem yourself, but really I could go through and post any and all verses that refer to peace and mercy, and you could continue to take single verses and change the words and take them out of context and you still would have no chance in proving what I know to be wrong. Anyway, it's your move if you wish to continue to be manipulative.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Ehe? It uses the Bible. Super super super easy to verify the claims of that page. On the right you have a list of various immoral acts. Click it and get all the passages where the act is promoted. Then feel free to verify in your own Bible.

A huge problem with any old text on morals is that society has changed. A lot of things we used to think are virtues aren't virtues anymore. That's the problem the Bible has.

Example. When Lot offers his daughters to be raped by a crowd to appease them. Back in the day that was seen as Lot sacrificing something. Today we tend to think that Lot is a horrendous father for aiding and abetting a sexual assault on his own children. Women didn't used to count as independent individuals. They were only extensions of their guardian. That's the world that spawned the Bible. So the parable doesn't work any longer. The Bible is full of this.

I don't know what you are going on about. The Qur'an and bible are similar and both promote peace, and mercy. If you disagree then post actual verses or actual references. I won't be using a link of any sort for multiple reasons. And saying that any parable is no longer of use is an opinion based on someone else's opinion. If you have an opinion then fine, but at least come to that conclusion on your own.

Thanks,
Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

So how exactly is it moral to offer your daughters for rape to an unruly mob? In 2 Peter 2 God himself refers to Lot as "righteous" and "just". Just look it up if you don't believe me.

I agree that both the Bible and Quran promote peace and forgiveness above all else. Incidentaly, just like any religion. They're all full of this. But that's not to say that The Bible and Quran are all fine and dandy. Apart from the peace and forgiveness they promote horrible horrible values. The link I posted has collected all the immorality in the Bible. I suspect that the reason you don't want to even click the link is because you are afraid to find out what the books actually say? Could that be so?

...and not to point out the obvious, but peace isn't always to be preferred. I'm pretty happy the allies chose to stop Hitler. Today peace at all cost isn't worth it. But of course, in the time the Bible and the Quran were written all political power was by it's nature corrupt and cruel. You just didn't get fair and just leadership. The Bible's tactic is to resign and just subordinate oneself to who ever has power. The Quran has the idea that if that political power emanates from a Muslim lord than at least it's the least bad option. Which with today's democracy doesn't apply any more. So both are obsolete in this regard.

 

[popsthebuilder]

DrZoidberg,

The story you reference is similar to the story of Abraham and Isaac. They are references to Faith in GOD without waver. Nothing happened to these men's children in either case. They were found just because of there Faith.

What horrible horrible values are you talking about? Why have the goal posts moved from both books not advocating peace and mercy, to both of them advocating peace and mercy above all else but still teach other things? Regardless, what horrible teachings are there. I've read both and still do. I admit there is a difference in what is generally observable through the actions of the "followers" of these books, and the teachings of the books themselves, but that isn't what you're saying. I don't use any third party interpretation whatsoever, regardless of source. I read core scripture for myself and comprehend it very well generally. I don't need anyone else's biased opinions polluting my views and perseptions. I know well what the books say generally speaking, but do not have them memorized by any means, just the subject matter.

Yeah, I didn't say my personal stance was that of utter defencelessness, nor did I say that was the stance in either book. Defence of what one knows is right is of course generally the best policy. That doesn't have to pertain to self, but more towards those who are defenceless, and wrongfully accused/ treated. Turn the other cheek is in reference to self, for the sake of what is right, and to show others the error of of their ways through self sacrifice, and utterly humility. In no way does that mean to stand idly by while the innocent, ignorant, and defenceless get taken advantage of.

You seem to be trying to say that today's leadership is honest and equitable, and so moral codes aren't needed from ancient texts. First, wow, where do you reside that the governing officials are honest, and look out for all, without special privelege and status? What politician isn't corrupt? And even if they where all honest good men, why would that mean that scriptures that whole people hold dear should be thrown out? That's craziness. It is each and every persons right to have faith in a higher power. To remove that right is one of the most closed minded meglomaniacal things I have ever heard. Yeah, no one needs to freshen up on their moral values around here.

Anyway, back to the topic. Both books are similar and promote peace and mercy which you yourself stated. I'm glad we can move on. So I guess the title of the op could be a correct statement.
Cool.

Peace


Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Bomb#20]

Yeah, I didn't say my personal stance was that of utter defencelessness, nor did I say that was the stance in either book. Defence of what one knows is right is of course generally the best policy. That doesn't have to pertain to self, but more towards those who are defenceless, and wrongfully accused/ treated.
...
And even if they where all honest good men, why would that mean that scriptures that whole people hold dear should be thrown out? That's craziness. It is each and every persons right to have faith in a higher power. To remove that right is one of the most closed minded meglomaniacal things I have ever heard. Yeah, no one needs to freshen up on their moral values around here.

... you displayed them in a manner that in no way reflected their actual subject matter, and then tried to say they didn't promote mercy or peace, which I showed was manipulative and untrue. This is easily seen if you read the verses in context as opposed to picking single verses to support your own wants. I'm trying to give you a chance to redeem yourself, but really I could go through and post any and all verses that refer to peace and mercy, and you could continue to take single verses and change the words and take them out of context and you still would have no chance in proving what I know to be wrong. Anyway, it's your move if you wish to continue to be manipulative.

DrZoidberg did not advocate removing anyone's right to have faith in anything; neither did he try to throw out anyone else's scripture or other property. He simply informed you of his opinion of them, just as you informed him of yours.

DBT was not manipulative. He did not take single verses and change the words. He provided excerpts which he felt proved his view was correct, just as you did. He did not provide the verses before and after what he thought was necessary to show he was right, just as you did not. The only alternatives to a quotation that someone else may feel is out of context are to post nothing, or to post the Quran in its entirety. The circumstance that you and he have a difference of opinion on how much context is necessary in a particular case is not evidence that he is being manipulative.

DrZoidberg and DBT are wrongfully accused by you. Defense of the wrongfully accused is the best policy. You are attacking the wrongfully accused. Stop doing that.

 

[ronburgundy]

It is each and every persons right to have faith in a higher power. To remove that right is one of the most closed minded meglomaniacal things I have ever heard. Yeah, no one needs to freshen up on their moral values around here.

.

There are probably no texts that do more than the Quran and the Bible to attack this very right you claim is so important and is immoral to attack. A right to have faith in a higher power is meaningless if one is not free to choose what that higher power is or to have no faith in a higher power. Yet, the Quran and the Bible both promote violence against those who choose not the have faith in one particular notion of that higher power.

By your own moral standards, these texts and the God they advocate are heinously immoral.