Should the DEA shutdown marijuana dispensaries?

[Blahface]

I'm not asking whether or not you think pot should be legal. I'm asking if you think the marijuana laws on the books should be enforced by the executive branch. If you think the laws shouldn't be enforced, do you feel that the executive branch should adopt this attitude towards all laws? Should the executive branch be allowed to decide that they aren't going to enforce environmental or food and drug regulations?

If you think the executive branch shouldn't be going after the marijuana dispensaries, but think that it should be required to enforce other laws, what process should we go through to determine which laws it is ok for the executive to ignore?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It's a difficult question. Being a supporter of the dispensaries, I want to be able to frame the answer in a way that has the feds leave them alone, but it's not that simple.

The central part of the question here is whether or not states should be allowed to legalize something which is illegal federally. If the states have that authority then federal agencies need to abide by that law while in that state and, if not, then they should enforce the federal law regardless of the wishes of the state legislature. I don't know enough about US laws to say which would be the case.

 

[Bomb#20]

The central part of the question here is whether or not states should be allowed to legalize something which is illegal federally. If the states have that authority then federal agencies need to abide by that law while in that state and, if not, then they should enforce the federal law regardless of the wishes of the state legislature.

Gee, if only there were a clause in our Constitution that said what the criterion is for determining which level of government has the authority to determine whether a particular activity is legal. I suppose we could try to add one. How about this?

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

But the amendment process is difficult and an awful lot of people have to agree to it. Do you suppose there's any chance our Constitution will ever say that?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

They should shut down all the marijuana dispensaries in hell.

Note that this requires sending the DEA agents to hell. Hopefully as a one-way trip.

 

[skepticalbip]

The central part of the question here is whether or not states should be allowed to legalize something which is illegal federally. If the states have that authority then federal agencies need to abide by that law while in that state and, if not, then they should enforce the federal law regardless of the wishes of the state legislature.

Gee, if only there were a clause in our Constitution that said what the criterion is for determining which level of government has the authority to determine whether a particular activity is legal. I suppose we could try to add one. How about this?

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

But the amendment process is difficult and an awful lot of people have to agree to it. Do you suppose there's any chance our Constitution will ever say that?

It's just a shame that there isn't some section in the Constitution that innumerates what those powers delegated to the United States are.

 

[NobleSavage]

I've got a buddy who has worked in a bunch of dispensary. He says, that what happens is that they storm in and take all the cash (it's a cash only biz) and then no one really gets in trouble. They just want the cash.

 

[Saint_of_Me]

I would love to see the DEA shutdown all dispensaries. And for pot to become illegal again in all states. The Feds should enforce the laws still on the books. Screw the Sates' decision to legalize it. I feel the Feds have the right, since legal marijuana use poses a serious threat to our citizens safety and well-being.

Do we really need more stoned drivers? Pilots? Factory workers? Doctors? Nurses? EMT responders? Politicians? Teachers?

I think not.

I am of the opinion that we do not need another legal mind-altering drug in this country. Pot makes you stupid. And lazy. And some studies have shown they can lower sperm count in males. And who knows what else they will find out. Maybe in the long run it can foment mild psychosis. I am in the mental health field, have a degree in psychology, and know full well that ANY mind-altering drug ingested on a regular basis has long-term negative consequences. Why would THC be any different?

Umm..because it isn't.

I also don't like people getting rich from selling the stuff. Oh..and pot CAN be a gateway drug. It was for me. And for countless friends of mine back in the day.

I don't want to be just getting ready to go under from the anesthesia during surgery and, right before fading to la-la land, catch that faint whiff of pot wafting from my surgeon.

Just my two cents.

Ban Pot! Drug Dealers should spend life in prison. Drug Dealers to kids, or caught near a school zone should be executed. In a public square. Yeah..that's right.

 

[NobleSavage]

I would love to see the DEA shutdown all dispensaries. And for pot to become illegal again in all states.

I am of the opinion that we do not need another legal mind-altering drug in this country. Pot makes you stupid. And lazy. And some studies have shown they can lower sperm count in males. And who knows what else they will find out. Maybe in the long run it can foment mild psychosis. I am in the mental health field, have a degree in psychology, and know full well that ANY mind-altering drug ingested on a regular basis has long-term negative consequences. Why would THC be any different?

Umm..because it isn't.

I also don't like people getting rich from selling the stuff. Oh..and pot CAN be a gateway drug. It was for me. And for countless friends of mine back in the day.

I don't want to be just getting ready to go under from the anesthesia during surgery and, right before fading to la-la land, catch that faint whiff of pot wafting from my surgeon.

Just my two cents.

Ban Pot! Drug Dealers should spend life in prison. Drug Dealers to kids, or caught near a school zone should be executed. In a public square. Yeah..that's right.

I think I'll smoke a bowl (It's been weeks) and think about this.

 

[Godless Raven]

They better not start targeting dispensaries before I get my gear for this weekend first or they'll get a fight

 

[prideandfall]

I'm not asking whether or not you think pot should be legal. I'm asking if you think the marijuana laws on the books should be enforced by the executive branch. If you think the laws shouldn't be enforced, do you feel that the executive branch should adopt this attitude towards all laws? Should the executive branch be allowed to decide that they aren't going to enforce environmental or food and drug regulations?

as a general rule i'm going to say that yes... in fact i'd go so far as to say that the executive (and any other branch, while we're at it) has a moral duty to not enforce any archaic and socially detrimental laws which are codified but not justifiable.

If you think the executive branch shouldn't be going after the marijuana dispensaries, but think that it should be required to enforce other laws, what process should we go through to determine which laws it is ok for the executive to ignore?

it's very hard to pin down in a post (or hell even in a lengthy treatise on the topic) an exact guideline to morality, but i look at this the same way i viewed DOMA - it's a fucked up and unjust law, and just because it exists isn't sufficient reason to enforce it.

 

[Godless Raven]

I would love to see the DEA shutdown all dispensaries. And for pot to become illegal again in all states. The Feds should enforce the laws still on the books. Screw the Sates' decision to legalize it. I feel the Feds have the right, since legal marijuana use poses a serious threat to our citizens safety and well-being.

Do we really need more stoned drivers? Pilots? Factory workers? Doctors? Nurses? EMT responders? Politicians? Teachers?

I think not.

I am of the opinion that we do not need another legal mind-altering drug in this country. Pot makes you stupid. And lazy. And some studies have shown they can lower sperm count in males. And who knows what else they will find out. Maybe in the long run it can foment mild psychosis. I am in the mental health field, have a degree in psychology, and know full well that ANY mind-altering drug ingested on a regular basis has long-term negative consequences. Why would THC be any different?

Umm..because it isn't.

I also don't like people getting rich from selling the stuff. Oh..and pot CAN be a gateway drug. It was for me. And for countless friends of mine back in the day.

I don't want to be just getting ready to go under from the anesthesia during surgery and, right before fading to la-la land, catch that faint whiff of pot wafting from my surgeon.

Just my two cents.

Ban Pot! Drug Dealers should spend life in prison. Drug Dealers to kids, or caught near a school zone should be executed. In a public square. Yeah..that's right.

If only ANY of that were based on fact. Gateway? Surgeon's wreaking of pot? Wait...they are stupid and/or lazy...but you're concerned with their low sperm count preventing them from having kids. Interesting. MJ has been used for thousands of years in one form or another...so when you say "who knows...." followed by comments about mild psychosis...we do know, that's rubbish.

 

[bilby]

I would love to see the DEA shutdown all dispensaries. And for pot to become illegal again in all states. The Feds should enforce the laws still on the books. Screw the Sates' decision to legalize it. I feel the Feds have the right, since legal marijuana use poses a serious threat to our citizens safety and well-being.

Do we really need more stoned drivers? Pilots? Factory workers? Doctors? Nurses? EMT responders? Politicians? Teachers?

I think not.

I am of the opinion that we do not need another legal mind-altering drug in this country. Pot makes you stupid. And lazy. And some studies have shown they can lower sperm count in males. And who knows what else they will find out. Maybe in the long run it can foment mild psychosis. I am in the mental health field, have a degree in psychology, and know full well that ANY mind-altering drug ingested on a regular basis has long-term negative consequences. Why would THC be any different?

Umm..because it isn't.

I also don't like people getting rich from selling the stuff. Oh..and pot CAN be a gateway drug. It was for me. And for countless friends of mine back in the day.

I don't want to be just getting ready to go under from the anesthesia during surgery and, right before fading to la-la land, catch that faint whiff of pot wafting from my surgeon.

Just my two cents.

Ban Pot! Drug Dealers should spend life in prison. Drug Dealers to kids, or caught near a school zone should be executed. In a public square. Yeah..that's right.

And for the exact same reasons, alcohol should be banned.

Because we all know that when it was, people drank less, crime was reduced, and everyone was happy and sober.

Oh, wait, that wasn't how it went at all.

Prohibition led to more drinking; more dangerous drinking; more crime; and more exposure to criminals for ordinary people.

Why anyone imagines that what was true for alcohol is untrue of cannabis is a mystery.

Banning stuff doesn't magically make it disappear. In fact, we observe that it does the exact opposite.

A rational person who thinks drug use is bad, for the reasons you set out, should be strongly in favour of legalisation.

 

[Saint_of_Me]

I would love to see the DEA shutdown all dispensaries. And for pot to become illegal again in all states. The Feds should enforce the laws still on the books. Screw the Sates' decision to legalize it. I feel the Feds have the right, since legal marijuana use poses a serious threat to our citizens safety and well-being.

Do we really need more stoned drivers? Pilots? Factory workers? Doctors? Nurses? EMT responders? Politicians? Teachers?

I think not.

I am of the opinion that we do not need another legal mind-altering drug in this country. Pot makes you stupid. And lazy. And some studies have shown they can lower sperm count in males. And who knows what else they will find out. Maybe in the long run it can foment mild psychosis. I am in the mental health field, have a degree in psychology, and know full well that ANY mind-altering drug ingested on a regular basis has long-term negative consequences. Why would THC be any different?

Umm..because it isn't.

I also don't like people getting rich from selling the stuff. Oh..and pot CAN be a gateway drug. It was for me. And for countless friends of mine back in the day.

I don't want to be just getting ready to go under from the anesthesia during surgery and, right before fading to la-la land, catch that faint whiff of pot wafting from my surgeon.

Just my two cents.

Ban Pot! Drug Dealers should spend life in prison. Drug Dealers to kids, or caught near a school zone should be executed. In a public square. Yeah..that's right.

If only ANY of that were based on fact. Gateway? Surgeon's wreaking of pot? Wait...they are stupid and/or lazy...but you're concerned with their low sperm count preventing them from having kids. Interesting. MJ has been used for thousands of years in one form or another...so when you say "who knows...." followed by comments about mild psychosis...we do know, that's rubbish.

It's spelled "reeking." "Wreaking" means to recklessly cause or create something. usually negative. Or perform it. Like wreaking havoc.

You must be a pot smoker. See? LOL. You are helping me prove my point.

Rubbish?

I think not.

Check this out. Want more links" Just ask. I got a million of 'em. Want some VA studies? (I work there). I can do that too.


On sperm count and fertility...

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=51663


Other stuff....

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/marijuana-use-and-its-effects

 

[prideandfall]

I would love to see the DEA shutdown all dispensaries. And for pot to become illegal again in all states. The Feds should enforce the laws still on the books. Screw the Sates' decision to legalize it. I feel the Feds have the right, since legal marijuana use poses a serious threat to our citizens safety and well-being.

Do we really need more stoned drivers? Pilots? Factory workers? Doctors? Nurses? EMT responders? Politicians? Teachers?

I think not.

I am of the opinion that we do not need another legal mind-altering drug in this country. Pot makes you stupid. And lazy. And some studies have shown they can lower sperm count in males. And who knows what else they will find out. Maybe in the long run it can foment mild psychosis. I am in the mental health field, have a degree in psychology, and know full well that ANY mind-altering drug ingested on a regular basis has long-term negative consequences. Why would THC be any different?

Umm..because it isn't.

I also don't like people getting rich from selling the stuff. Oh..and pot CAN be a gateway drug. It was for me. And for countless friends of mine back in the day.

I don't want to be just getting ready to go under from the anesthesia during surgery and, right before fading to la-la land, catch that faint whiff of pot wafting from my surgeon.

Just my two cents.

Ban Pot! Drug Dealers should spend life in prison. Drug Dealers to kids, or caught near a school zone should be executed. In a public square. Yeah..that's right.

as others have said and i'll just reiterate: take everything in this quote and replace "pot" with "alcohol" and it's patently stupid, in the observed context of recent history.

being stoned at work should be a fireable offense just like being drunk at work, but it shouldn't be illegal to be stoned any more than it's illegal to be drunk (within the context of recreational use: apply the same standards of legality involving impairment and public safety as you would with alcohol).

 

[Saint_of_Me]

I would love to see the DEA shutdown all dispensaries. And for pot to become illegal again in all states. The Feds should enforce the laws still on the books. Screw the Sates' decision to legalize it. I feel the Feds have the right, since legal marijuana use poses a serious threat to our citizens safety and well-being.

Do we really need more stoned drivers? Pilots? Factory workers? Doctors? Nurses? EMT responders? Politicians? Teachers?

I think not.

I am of the opinion that we do not need another legal mind-altering drug in this country. Pot makes you stupid. And lazy. And some studies have shown they can lower sperm count in males. And who knows what else they will find out. Maybe in the long run it can foment mild psychosis. I am in the mental health field, have a degree in psychology, and know full well that ANY mind-altering drug ingested on a regular basis has long-term negative consequences. Why would THC be any different?

Umm..because it isn't.

I also don't like people getting rich from selling the stuff. Oh..and pot CAN be a gateway drug. It was for me. And for countless friends of mine back in the day.

I don't want to be just getting ready to go under from the anesthesia during surgery and, right before fading to la-la land, catch that faint whiff of pot wafting from my surgeon.

Just my two cents.

Ban Pot! Drug Dealers should spend life in prison. Drug Dealers to kids, or caught near a school zone should be executed. In a public square. Yeah..that's right.

And for the exact same reasons, alcohol should be banned.

Because we all know that when it was, people drank less, crime was reduced, and everyone was happy and sober.

Oh, wait, that wasn't how it went at all.

Prohibition led to more drinking; more dangerous drinking; more crime; and more exposure to criminals for ordinary people.

Why anyone imagines that what was true for alcohol is untrue of cannabis is a mystery.

Banning stuff doesn't magically make it disappear. In fact, we observe that it does the exact opposite.

A rational person who thinks drug use is bad, for the reasons you set out, should be strongly in favour of legalisation.

To compare criminalizing pot with the Volstead Act of 1920 is both unfair and inaccurate.

The big difference being of course that alcohol was already legal and had been since our country's inception some 150 years before! LOL. Thus...the Feds took something away from the populace that they had been doing for their entire lives.

Not so with the recent pot law changes in two states.

And the fact that alcohol is bad for you but is legal should in no way be used as a justification for legalizing pot. It merely dovetails into my OP remark that we do not need another legal drug.

Good try, though.

 

[bilby]

And for the exact same reasons, alcohol should be banned.

Because we all know that when it was, people drank less, crime was reduced, and everyone was happy and sober.

Oh, wait, that wasn't how it went at all.

Prohibition led to more drinking; more dangerous drinking; more crime; and more exposure to criminals for ordinary people.

Why anyone imagines that what was true for alcohol is untrue of cannabis is a mystery.

Banning stuff doesn't magically make it disappear. In fact, we observe that it does the exact opposite.

A rational person who thinks drug use is bad, for the reasons you set out, should be strongly in favour of legalisation.

To compare criminalizing pot with the Volstead Act of 1920 is both unfair and inaccurate.

The big difference being of course that alcohol was already legal and had been since our country's inception some 150 years before! LOL. Thus...the Feds took something away from the populace that they had been doing for their entire lives.

Not so with the recent pot law changes in two states.

And the fact that alcohol is bad for you but is legal should in no way be used as a justification for legalizing pot. It merely dovetails into my OP remark that we do not need another legal drug.

Good try, though.

You should probably learn the history before relying on it in your argument.

Outright prohibition of cannabis in the US didn't happen until 1925; five years after the prohibition of alcohol. Your "big difference" simply doesn't exist.

You also seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that being illegal makes a drug less harmful - despite the mountains of clear evidence that the opposite is true.

The fact that alcohol is bad for you, but is legal, in no way justifies legalising pot. But the fact that alcohol is bad for you when legal and was even worse when illegal most certainly does.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I've got a buddy who has worked in a bunch of dispensary. He says, that what happens is that they storm in and take all the cash (it's a cash only biz) and then no one really gets in trouble. They just want the cash.

Typical drug warriors.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I would love to see the DEA shutdown all dispensaries. And for pot to become illegal again in all states. The Feds should enforce the laws still on the books. Screw the Sates' decision to legalize it. I feel the Feds have the right, since legal marijuana use poses a serious threat to our citizens safety and well-being.

Marijuana poses far less of a threat than either alcohol or tobacco.

Do we really need more stoned drivers? Pilots? Factory workers? Doctors? Nurses? EMT responders? Politicians? Teachers?

Just because I'm for legalization of marijuana doesn't mean I think it's acceptable to be stoned on the job. The legality of alcohol doesn't mean I think it should be acceptable to be drunk on the job, either.

Stoned drivers should get a DUI (however, note that they aren't anywhere near as dangerous as drunk ones. Stoned drivers are more of a road obstruction than an overt threat.)

I am of the opinion that we do not need another legal mind-altering drug in this country. Pot makes you stupid. And lazy. And some studies have shown they can lower sperm count in males. And who knows what else they will find out. Maybe in the long run it can foment mild psychosis. I am in the mental health field, have a degree in psychology, and know full well that ANY mind-altering drug ingested on a regular basis has long-term negative consequences. Why would THC be any different?

Sperm count, perhaps--but so what? If potheads fail to reproduce isn't that a good thing?

The rest of it--I think you have the cart before the horse. Does pot make you stupid, lazy and a bit psychotic? Or are the stupid and lazy attracted to it? And the ones with mental health issues attempting to self-medicate?

I also don't like people getting rich from selling the stuff. Oh..and pot CAN be a gateway drug. It was for me. And for countless friends of mine back in the day.

The real gateway drug is tobacco--that it, to the extent that there is such a thing as a gateway drug in the first place. I consider the notion basically busted--the distribution more represents people proceeding down the chain of drugs until they find what they want, not drugs leading to harder drugs.

Ban Pot! Drug Dealers should spend life in prison. Drug Dealers to kids, or caught near a school zone should be executed. In a public square. Yeah..that's right.

Back when I was in school (admittedly, quite some time ago) I was repeatedly offered drugs in school. Never tobacco or alcohol. The sellers of the legal drugs have a good reason to avoid selling to minors, the purveyors of illegal drugs have no such inhibitions. This isn't just my opinion, either--in many such discussions over the years plenty of people have made the same point--the illegal stuff is easier to get than the age-restricted stuff. I have yet to see anyone claim the opposite.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

To compare criminalizing pot with the Volstead Act of 1920 is both unfair and inaccurate.

The big difference being of course that alcohol was already legal and had been since our country's inception some 150 years before! LOL. Thus...the Feds took something away from the populace that they had been doing for their entire lives.

Not so with the recent pot law changes in two states.

And the fact that alcohol is bad for you but is legal should in no way be used as a justification for legalizing pot. It merely dovetails into my OP remark that we do not need another legal drug.

Good try, though.

All drugs were originally legal. The intoxicants of choice of non-whites were banned in the 19th and 20th century. Racism, pure and simple.

What's the most addictive drug? Tobacco.

What drug kills the greatest percentage of it's users? Tobacco. (Note that I am not counting people who die from contaminated drugs--that's an artifact of their illegality, not the drugs themselves.)

 

[Saint_of_Me]

insinuating that I am of the opinion that potheads being unable to reproduce is good, is a Straw Man.

Any drug that can lower sperm count..one of our most Evolved, primal forces in our bodies...well, what else is it doing to people?

And if pot were legalized it would be much easier to get than if it were not. You are also not totally correct in saying that illegal stuff is easier to get than age-restricted stuff.

Or do you really believe it's easier for a kid to score a bag of heroin than a six-pack?

Keep Pot and All Drugs Illegal. Period. Dot the i and cross the t.

Thank you for your support. LOL