Should Trans-Women Be Allowed In Women's Sports? NO!

[Half-Life]

Do you personally believe Arnold is a woman (no questions asked) simply because he says he is a woman?

Yes? I mean, maybe if you strip the stupid qualifiers.

I don't believe or disbelieve 'simply because he says'. I tend towards agnosticism coupled with respect. If you want hard, objective reality, it's that I can't know if he is telling the truth 'no questions asked' or 'simply because he says' The reality is, I don't have much need to know if he is telling the truth or lying.

When someone tells me they are transgender, depressed, Catholic, Liberal, feminist, allergic to peanuts, I have no means of affirming or denying the statement in most cases. I take them at their word knowing these are all plausible things and that it is important to have people listen and have personal experiences, elements of our identity, or invisible characteristics about ourselves respected when we reveal them.

But transgenderism is based on feelings, not facts. A person FEELS they are a different gender, but the biological differences shows the fact that they are wrong.

There was a Vox video recently about how "everything is made for men" and they went through prescription drugs and how they only take into account 30 year old straight white males and discount women. The article got bombarded with conservatives saying funny comments such as,

"So now Vox agrees men and women are different? Welcome to reality! You're growing up!"

"Wait a minute! I thought the women can just identify as men! Problem solved! Unless you're saying men and women are different???"

"So let me get this straight: Vox used to say men and women are the same in their support of transgender people. Now, they are saying men and women are different? Leftists live in a fantasy world!"

 

[blastula]

The only two opinions that should have merit in this argument should be

a)the athletes participating and
b)(because this is just how the fucking world works nowadays) the sponsors of the sport.

Someone who believes hateful bullshit like being transgender is a sickness that can eradicated through eugenics should be disqualified from the discussion.

Transgender people commit suicide at an alarming rate. If we could stop transgender from happening, that would be a good thing. In the same way it would be a good thing if we can stop Down syndrome form happening. You wouldn't call me sick for thinking that could be stopped, right?

Since you believe being transgender is due to genetics, then you can't say it's a choice nor that trans identity is wrong.

 

[blastula]

Nobody assigned a gender to me at birth, or to you, or to anyone. A physician looked at my genitals and correctly classified me as a boy. As it turned out, I developed into an effeminate pre-gay child, and then an effeminate adult male.

You were not assigned a gender at birth. Even by your own understanding of what gender is, you ought know this. Since gender is a self-identity nobody can have assigned it to you.

You believe sex can be assigned? (outside of intersex people)

 

[Half-Life]

The only two opinions that should have merit in this argument should be

a)the athletes participating and
b)(because this is just how the fucking world works nowadays) the sponsors of the sport.

Someone who believes hateful bullshit like being transgender is a sickness that can eradicated through eugenics should be disqualified from the discussion.

Transgender people commit suicide at an alarming rate. If we could stop transgender from happening, that would be a good thing. In the same way it would be a good thing if we can stop Down syndrome form happening. You wouldn't call me sick for thinking that could be stopped, right?

Since you believe being transgender is due to genetics, then you can't say it's a choice nor that trans identity is wrong.

Gender dysphoria is considered a mental illness, just like limb syndrome is considered a mental illness. There are people who have said stuff like, "Cut off my leg! Cut off my arm! I can't stand it!" We get these people help. We don't tell them, "OK! Chop them off!" like we do with transgender people.

The same way if someone was saying, "I'm a bird!" and they start making tweet tweet noises, we dn't say, "OK, you are a bird." We say, "You're mentally ill. You're not a bird, you're a human." If the person responded with, "How dare you assume my species based on my biological appearance and chromosomes!," we'd call them insane, right?

Another problem is when people say, "gender is a social construct anyway so people can identify as whatever they want." But, does this make sense? Imagine a spelling test in school and the teacher says, "OK class, your first word is "dog." One student writes, "Dg." The teacher says, "sorry, you're wrong." The student replies, "But spelling and language are a social construct. How can my answer be wrong?"

How should the teacher reply?

 

[Half-Life]

Nobody assigned a gender to me at birth, or to you, or to anyone. A physician looked at my genitals and correctly classified me as a boy. As it turned out, I developed into an effeminate pre-gay child, and then an effeminate adult male.

You were not assigned a gender at birth. Even by your own understanding of what gender is, you ought know this. Since gender is a self-identity nobody can have assigned it to you.

You believe sex can be assigned? (outside of intersex people)

This does raise a question.

Remember how the old Chinese dynasties used to throw females in the garbage when they wanted a son for the throne?

Why didn't they just think, "We'll just make the girl identify as a boy! Problem solved! No more throwing away babies!"

 

[blastula]

Since you believe being transgender is due to genetics, then you can't say it's a choice nor that trans identity is wrong.

Gender dysphoria is considered a mental illness,

Not by professionals.

just like limb syndrome is considered a mental illness. There are people who have said stuff like, "Cut off my leg! Cut off my arm! I can't stand it!" We get these people help. We don't tell them, "OK! Chop them off!" like we do with transgender people.

LOL. Phantom limb occurs in people who have already had limbs amputated.

The same way if someone was saying, "I'm a bird!" and they start making tweet tweet noises, we dn't say, "OK, you are a bird." We say, "You're mentally ill. You're not a bird, you're a human." If the person responded with, "How dare you assume my species based on my biological appearance and chromosomes!," we'd call them insane, right?

Not comparable. I have given you a real comparable question and you have never answered after repeated requests. I'll ask again.

For parents with adopted children, what words should be use instead of mom, dad, son, daughter? Is Laura Ingraham wrong when she calls her adopted daughter, her daughter? Should she be corrected?

 

[ZiprHead]

He wouldn't qualify for competition without undergoing a minimum of one year on anti-androgens and lowering his testosterone below a certain limit. While it is debatable whether this sufficiently reduces biological advantages he may have, your scenario isn't a realistic scenario, and I am not sure who or how many people actually advocate for this in sports outside of possibly children's and rec leagues. I think even when we are talking about the high school level opinions start to split considerably.

I am not aware of anyone anywhere saying he would be exactly the same, save for the validity of his gender identity were he actually a transgender woman. If someone believed Arnold was not only female in gender identity, but also physiologically female in all regards, then by definition they would believe he is a cisgender woman, not transgender.



There are always a handful of people who believe nearly everything one can imagine. This doesn't mean it is a significant belief in society. But if you are certain it is, find the people who advocate that Arnold should be able to compete without lowering testosterone and ask them, or at least title this thread to be more inline with what you are actually asking.

Ignore the competition aspect of Arnold for a minute.

I'm simply asking, "If he said he's a woman TODAY, how can anybody take him seriously and believe him?" You would have radical leftists and trans people sticking up for him, but everyone else would see it as a sham.

Do you personally believe Arnold is a woman (no questions asked) simply because he says he is a woman?

If Arnold did as you say, why would it make one wit of difference to you at all?

 

[Half-Life]

Not by professionals.

just like limb syndrome is considered a mental illness. There are people who have said stuff like, "Cut off my leg! Cut off my arm! I can't stand it!" We get these people help. We don't tell them, "OK! Chop them off!" like we do with transgender people.

LOL. Phantom limb occurs in people who have already had limbs amputated.

The same way if someone was saying, "I'm a bird!" and they start making tweet tweet noises, we dn't say, "OK, you are a bird." We say, "You're mentally ill. You're not a bird, you're a human." If the person responded with, "How dare you assume my species based on my biological appearance and chromosomes!," we'd call them insane, right?

Not comparable. I have given you a real comparable question and you have never answered after repeated requests. I'll ask again.

For parents with adopted children, what words should be use instead of mom, dad, son, daughter? Is Laura Ingraham wrong when she calls her adopted daughter, her daughter? Should she be corrected?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integrity_dysphoria

"Body integrity dysphoria (BID, also referred to as body integrity identity disorder, amputee identity disorder and xenomelia, formerly called apotemnophilia) is a disorder characterized by a desire to be disabled or discomfort with being able-bodied beginning in early adolescence and resulting in harmful consequences.[1] BID appears to be related to somatoparaphrenia.[2] People with this condition may refer to themselves as "transabled".[3][4][5] "

Do you think a cure for these people is to "chop off whatever body parts you don't like?"

To answer your question about Ingraham, adopted daughter is not the same as biological daughter. Just like a trans woman is not a biological woman. Glad we agree on that.

 

[blastula]

To answer your question about Ingraham, adopted daughter is not the same as biological daughter. Just like a trans woman is not a biological woman. Glad we agree on that.

That wasn't my question. I'll repeat it again. For the fifth time:

For parents with adopted children, what words should be use instead of mom, dad, son, daughter? Is Laura Ingraham wrong when she calls her adopted daughter, her daughter? Should she be corrected?

Note, I am asking which words should be used.

 

[Half-Life]

To answer your question about Ingraham, adopted daughter is not the same as biological daughter. Just like a trans woman is not a biological woman. Glad we agree on that.

That wasn't my question. I'll repeat it again. For the fifth time:

For parents with adopted children, what words should be use instead of mom, dad, son, daughter? Is Laura Ingraham wrong when she calls her adopted daughter, her daughter? Should she be corrected?

Note, I am asking which words should be used.

She can use those words if she wants. She can call her "daughter" but this doesn't mean everyone else has to recognize this as official. Just like leftists will call a trans woman a "woman" but not everyone recognizes this as official.

 

[Metaphor]

You believe sex can be assigned? (outside of intersex people)

No, sex is not assigned at birth by anyone either. A physician inspects the genitals of babies and therefore discovers the sex of the child. The sex existed before the inspection. This ought not be hard to follow.

 

[blastula]

To answer your question about Ingraham, adopted daughter is not the same as biological daughter. Just like a trans woman is not a biological woman. Glad we agree on that.

That wasn't my question. I'll repeat it again. For the fifth time:

For parents with adopted children, what words should be use instead of mom, dad, son, daughter? Is Laura Ingraham wrong when she calls her adopted daughter, her daughter? Should she be corrected?

Note, I am asking which words should be used.

She can use those words if she wants. She can call her "daughter"

I didn't ask if she can. Read better Halfie. Would she be wrong?

 

[blastula]

You believe sex can be assigned? (outside of intersex people)

No, sex is not assigned at birth by anyone either. A physician inspects the genitals of babies and therefore discovers the sex of the child. The sex existed before the inspection. This ought not be hard to follow.

Is that also true for intersex people? Is their sex also simply discovered?

 

[Half-Life]

She can use those words if she wants. She can call her "daughter"

I didn't ask if she can. Read better Halfie. Would she be wrong?

No.

Now answer my question about Arnold. Would you call him a woman if he simply said he was a woman today?

 

[blastula]

She can use those words if she wants. She can call her "daughter"

I didn't ask if she can. Read better Halfie. Would she be wrong?

No.

Thank you. Now then, why is it wrong to call a trans woman a woman or she? How is that different than this example?

Now answer my question about Arnold. Would you call him a woman if he simply said he was a woman today?

If Schwarzenegger seemed sincere about it, then sure.

 

[Metaphor]

You believe sex can be assigned? (outside of intersex people)

No, sex is not assigned at birth by anyone either. A physician inspects the genitals of babies and therefore discovers the sex of the child. The sex existed before the inspection. This ought not be hard to follow.

Is that also true for intersex people? Is their sex also simply discovered?

At birth? It depends on the nature of the intersex condition. If a baby had ambiguous genitals, the doctor might correctly say 'I'm not sure', or, if the baby's intersex condition doesn't manifest in a way that alters the outward appearance of genitals, she might incorrectly classify the child as a particular sex.

But if an intersex condition is discovered after birth, in childhood or at puberty, then that too was also...discovered. A doctor did not cause, or arbitrarily "assign" the sex or intersex status of the child.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Having both sets of genitals is a deformity. It’s a false equivalence to compare that to red hair. If the left keeps maintaining these intellectually dishonest stances, they will lose the culture war.

First, why do you think it's intellectually dishonest? They seem to honestly believe that.

Second, a culture war is not likely decided on the basis of reason. It's decided on a number of other factors, but reason is at best a secondary one, unfortunately.

Third, if it were decided on reason, both sides would lose badly. An example on your side:

Don't you guys realize that all these new positions are part of the Marxist doctrine?

There you go.

No, that's not remotely Marxist. It's another brand of leftism, which is not at all based on Marx.

The idea that gender can be whatever we want, transgenders are normal, intersex is a third sex, these are all ways you are being brainwashed by communist doctrine.

Take a look at Marx, and you will find nothing of the sort.
Or (much less accurately, though) take a look at the Soviet Union or Communist China, Vietnam, North Korea, or Cuba (except maybe recently, due to influence from other Latin American leftist variants, and even then in a very limited fashion). You will not find that as part of the official doctrine, and in fact, you will likely find strong disagreement with such ideas among their establishments.

 

[Trausti]

 

[blastula]

Is that also true for intersex people? Is their sex also simply discovered?

At birth? It depends on the nature of the intersex condition. If a baby had ambiguous genitals, the doctor might correctly say 'I'm not sure', or, if the baby's intersex condition doesn't manifest in a way that alters the outward appearance of genitals, she might incorrectly classify the child as a particular sex.

But if an intersex condition is discovered after birth, in childhood or at puberty, then that too was also...discovered. A doctor did not cause, or arbitrarily "assign" the sex or intersex status of the child.

But assigning sex is exactly what doctors do when they perform surgery to conform to an arbitrary assignment.

 

[Toni]

She can use those words if she wants. She can call her "daughter"

I didn't ask if she can. Read better Halfie. Would she be wrong?

No.

Now answer my question about Arnold. Would you call him a woman if he simply said he was a woman today?

The reality is that it is difficult for a lot of people to make all of the adjustments to their language and their perceptions and beliefs about a person who reveals themselves to be of a gender different than the one assumed and/or presented before. I know. Someone I knew as a young child eventually transitioned. Even though it was obvious to me that this child was likely transsexual as a very young child, it is still difficult for me, in my brain, to not refer to them by their name given at birth by their parents. I fully accept and understand that this person does not belong to the gender they were presumed to belong at birth. I suspected--very strongly--that this was the case when they were 5 and 6 years old. It's still not an easy transition for people to make in their brains, even if their hearts have done so.