Should white people perform the blues?

[NobleSavage]

Phil Rubio's article "Crossover Dreams...." (Race Traitor No. 2, Summer 1993) provides an interesting perspective on the confrontation between white performers and black art forms. In many cases, he writes, white musicians are motivated by admiration and envy for the black performers they emulate. And he continues, we are seeing the "use of African-American culture by whites to find the spirit, and hence the humanity, they feel they've lost." But I would like to emphasize a totally different perspective. I will argue that for those interested in the support and study of African-American culture, blues as purveyed by whites appears unauthentic and deeply impoverished; further, it too often represents an appropriation of black culture of a type sadly familiar. Finally, it can be economically crippling to black artists through loss of jobs and critical attention.

http://www.bluesworld.com/WHITEBLUES.html

 

[Derec]

Should black people perform Classical music?

 

[Bronzeage]

I have the right to sing the blues.

 

[Horatio Parker]

A masturbatory emission, I couldn't finish it.

I know jazz better than I know blues, and jazz is also an African-American music. The instruments, theory and notation are white. The musicians themselves are evenly divided, but the most innovative artists are almost entirely black. The audience is mixed, if segregated. The criticism is overwhelmingly white, as are the record companies.

Much brilliant music came from this era. So now do we assign where one belongs, then, according to their race? If white, you may be a devotee, critic, or a performer perhaps a leader but only rarely an innovator(Bix Beiderbecke, Bill Evans etc). If black you may be a devotee, but not a critic or a record executive, a performer and/or an innovator.

A forlorn task IMO.

 

[repoman]

while there are plenty of white folks who have embarrassed themselves playing blues, many have done a good and heartfelt job at it.

.... But if you had a white guy who was a good blues performer and you found out he was a virulent racist against blacks maybe you should be harder on him than a racist classical musician. It would be a strong case for him appropriating black music for personal gain instead doing it for sharing in common humanity.

I have heard some odd things about Eric Clapton in this regard:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Racism

Originally conceived as a one-off concert with a message against racism, Rock Against Racism was founded in 1976 by Red Saunders, Roger Huddle and others. According to Huddle, "it remained just an idea until August 1976" when Eric Clapton made a drunken declaration of support for former Conservative minister Enoch Powell (known for his anti-immigration Rivers of Blood speech) at a concert in Birmingham.[2] Clapton told the crowd that England had "become overcrowded" and that they should vote for Powell to stop Britain from becoming "a black colony". He also told the audience that Britain should "get the foreigners out, get the wogs out, get the coons out", and then he repeatedly shouted the National Front slogan "Keep Britain White".[3][4]

Huddle, Saunders and two members of Kartoon Klowns responded by writing a letter to NME expressing their opposition to Clapton's comments, which they claimed were "all the more disgusting because he had his first hit with a cover of reggae star Bob Marley's "I Shot the Sheriff" ... Come on Eric... Own up. Half your music is black. Who shot the Sheriff, Eric? It sure as hell wasn't you!". At the end of the letter, they called for people to help form a movement called Rock Against Racism, and they report that they received hundreds of replies.[2]

Clapton later claimed that his remarks were made as a joke, and that he did not know anything about politics at the time[citation needed]. In a 2007 interview, however, he said he still supports Powell, and that he doesn't view Powell as a racist.[5]

On a lighter note here are some "Blacks without Soul"



David Alan Grier is so damn underrated.

But seriously, when people are radical and humorless about the topic of the OP and similar ones it gives credence to the tag of SJW (social justice warrior) as an insult.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Phil Rubio's article "Crossover Dreams...." (Race Traitor No. 2, Summer 1993) provides an interesting perspective on the confrontation between white performers and black art forms. In many cases, he writes, white musicians are motivated by admiration and envy for the black performers they emulate. And he continues, we are seeing the "use of African-American culture by whites to find the spirit, and hence the humanity, they feel they've lost." But I would like to emphasize a totally different perspective. I will argue that for those interested in the support and study of African-American culture, blues as purveyed by whites appears unauthentic and deeply impoverished; further, it too often represents an appropriation of black culture of a type sadly familiar. Finally, it can be economically crippling to black artists through loss of jobs and critical attention.

http://www.bluesworld.com/WHITEBLUES.html

Who gives a rat's butt who performs any music as long as they enjoy doing it and if they are more fortunate the audience does so also.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

If it sounds good and feels good, then it IS good!

Duke Ellington

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Phil Rubio's article "Crossover Dreams...." (Race Traitor No. 2, Summer 1993) provides an interesting perspective on the confrontation between white performers and black art forms. In many cases, he writes, white musicians are motivated by admiration and envy for the black performers they emulate. And he continues, we are seeing the "use of African-American culture by whites to find the spirit, and hence the humanity, they feel they've lost." But I would like to emphasize a totally different perspective. I will argue that for those interested in the support and study of African-American culture, blues as purveyed by whites appears unauthentic and deeply impoverished; further, it too often represents an appropriation of black culture of a type sadly familiar. Finally, it can be economically crippling to black artists through loss of jobs and critical attention.

http://www.bluesworld.com/WHITEBLUES.html

are we talking about the music, the music industry, the history of exploitation within the music industry, and or the history of exploitation in general?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Should black people perform Classical music?

 

[Derec]

Athena, I was just pointing out the utter nonsense (and frankly racism) of the whole "cultural appropriation" narrative. What's wrong with that?

- - - Updated - - -

But seriously, when people are radical and humorless about the topic of the OP and similar ones it gives credence to the tag of SJW (social justice warrior) as an insult.

So-called "social justice" is quite often the exact opposite of actual justice.

 

[thebeave]

I don't see why anyone would care if white people play music invented by black people. Do white people get annoyed when black people use things invented by white people? Like the light bulb? Or the internet? Or...pretty much everything? No!

Seriously, I don't really listen to the blues much, so if blacks want to take that back, I'm OK with that. But you'll get my jar of Skippy peanut butter when you pry it out of my cold dead hands!

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Athena, I was just pointing out the utter nonsense (and frankly racism) of the whole "cultural appropriation" narrative. What's wrong with that?

NO, what you were doing is what my kid used to do when he was six. "Well, TJ gets to go the pond anytime he wants so why do I have to ask first and get an adult?" IOW, the question is about blues music and white people not euro-classical musical and black people.

The thing is, if you weren't so hell bent on deflecting everything onto the "bad, bad black people," you could have made a straight forward, and perhaps even extremely valid point, but now we will never know.

- - - Updated - - -

But seriously, when people are radical and humorless about the topic of the OP and similar ones it gives credence to the tag of SJW (social justice warrior) as an insult.

So-called "social justice" is quite often the exact opposite of actual justice.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't see why anyone would care if white people play music invented by black people. Do white people get annoyed when black people use things invented by white people? Like the light bulb? Or the internet? Or...pretty much everything? No!

Seriously, I don't really listen to the blues much, so if blacks want to take that back, I'm OK with that. But you'll get my jar of Skippy peanut butter when you pry it out of my cold dead hands!

 

[NobleSavage]

If it sounds good and feels good, then it IS good!

Duke Ellington

And with that I'd be happy to close the thread.

http://www.bluesworld.com/WHITEBLUES.html

are we talking about the music, the music industry, the history of exploitation within the music industry, and or the history of exploitation in general?

I had no particular intent, I was just bringing up the article for discussion. Fee free to make any point you like.

 

[Terrell]

Are they good? Yes? Don't see the problem here.

 

[Derec]

NO, what you were doing is what my kid used to do when he was six. "Well, TJ gets to go the pond anytime he wants so why do I have to ask first and get an adult?" IOW, the question is about blues music and white people not euro-classical musical and black people.

You have not demonstrated at all that "white people should not play music invented by blacks" is any more valid than "black people should not play music invented by whites".

The thing is, if you weren't so hell bent on deflecting everything onto the "bad, bad black people,"

No, "bad, bad racists" that hide behind the mantle of "social justice". FWIW, I don't even know what skin color the author of the article has and it doesn't matter anyway.

you could have made a straight forward, and perhaps even extremely valid point, but now we will never know.

I made an extremely valid point, by posing an equivalent scenario that challenges the presuppositions behind "cultural appropriation" nonsense.

So-called "social justice" is quite often the exact opposite of actual justice.

Is there an actual argument here?

Or here?

 

[SimpleDon]

I worked at a R&B radio station as an engineer in college. It was a daytime only AM station and 24 hour FM station when FM wasn't much of a factor. We ran jazz and blues programming after 10 pm. We traveled over North Texas to the local juke joints recording the music to play on the air. More than a few times we of course also went to Clarksdale, the crossroads. This was in the late 1960's. It was the norm then that I was the only while person there.

Since I have lived in Atlanta we have gone to Clarcksdale half a dozen times, the last time maybe five years ago, the last time I drove a car. The audiences are now overwhelmingly white, especially in the bigger touristy clubs in the town like Ground Zero. But even in the little jukes the crowds are mainly whites.

The performers are half and half black and white. But the only young people preforming are white. From all over the US and Europe. Without the white audiences and performers the blues would be dying as live music in clubs where it is the best, where new musicians learn. Even in Clarksdale the young blacks line up to get into the hip hop clubs.

Listen to the blues on the radio, I am listening to KKJZ right now. The music is all from before 1980. The blues are the original made in the US music, along with gospel, and is the parent to rock, hip hop, r&b, soul and jazz. It is American classical music. I refuse to apologize for anyone who is keeping the genre alive. More power to them.

This whole idea of race has got to go. The blues comes from life's pains, not something as trivial as the color of one's skin.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I am okay with anyone playing blues, jazz, hiphop (in that case I don't care 'cause I'll never hear it)...except the Big Fat White Elephant in the Room. If BlueNote ever releases Pat Boone's Delta Roots, you'll know we're in the end times.

 

[credoconsolans]

TOPIC: THE WHYS AND WHEREFORES OF THE BLUES


If you're new to Blues music, or you like it but never really understood the whys and wherefores, here are some very fundamental rules:

1. Most Blues begin with: "Woke up this morning..."

2. "I got a good woman" is a bad way to begin the Blues, unless you stick something nasty in the next line like, "I got a good woman, with the meanest face in town."

3. The Blues is simple. After you get the first line right, repeat it. Then, find something that rhymes -- sort of: "Got a good woman with the meanest face in town. Yes, I got a good woman with the meanest face in town. Got teeth like Margaret Thatcher and she weigh 500 pound."

4. The Blues is not about choice. "You stuck in a ditch, you stuck in a ditch...ain't no way out."

5. Blues cars: Chevys, Fords, Cadillacs, and broken-down trucks. Blues don't travel in Volvos, BMWs, or Sport Utility Vehicles. Most Blues transportation is a Greyhound bus or a southbound train. Jet aircraft and state-sponsored motor pools ain't even in the running. Walkin' plays a major part in the Blues lifestyle. So does fixin' to die.

6. Teenagers can't sing the Blues. They ain't fixin' to die yet. Adults sing the Blues. In Blues, "adulthood" means being old enough to get the electric chair if you shoot a man in Memphis.

7. Blues can take place in New York City, but not in Hawaii or anywhere in Canada. Hard times in Minneapolis or Seattle are probably just clinical depression. Chicago, St. Louis, Kansas City, Memphis, and N'awlins are still the best places to have the Blues. You cannot have the Blues in any place that don't get rain.

8. A man with male pattern baldness ain't the Blues. A woman with male pattern baldness is. Breaking your leg 'cause you were skiing is not the Blues. Breaking your leg 'cause a alligator be chomping on it is.

9. You can't have no Blues in an office or a shopping mall. The lighting is wrong. Go outside to the parking lot or sit by the dumpster.

10. Good places for the Blues: a. highway, b. jailhouse, c. empty bed, d. bottom of a whiskey glass.

11. Bad places for the Blues: a. Nordstrom's, b. gallery openings, c. Ivy League institutions, d. golf courses.

12. No one will believe it's the Blues if you wear a suit, less you happen to be an old person, and you slept in it.

13. Do you have the right to sing the Blues? Yes, if: a. you're older than dirt, b. you're blind, c. you shot a man in Memphis, d. you can't be satisfied. No, if: a. you have all your teeth, b. you were once blind but now can see, c. the man in Memphis lived, d. you have a 401 K or trust fund.

14. Blues is not a matter of color. It's a matter of bad luck. Tiger Woods cannot sing the Blues. Sonny Liston could have. Ugly white people also got a leg up on the Blues.

15. If you ask for water and your darlin' gives you gasoline, it's the Blues. Other acceptable Blues beverages are: a. cheap wine, b. whiskey or bourbon, c. muddy water, d. black coffee. The following are NOT Blues beverages: a. Perrier, b. Chardonnay, c. Snapple, d. Slim Fast.

16. If death occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun shack, it's a Blues death. Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is another Blues way to die. So are the electric chair, substance abuse, and dying lonely on a broken-down cot. You can't have a Blues death if you die during a tennis match or while getting liposuction.

17. Some Blues names for women: a. Sadie, b. Big Mama, c. Bessie, d. Jennie.

18. Some Blues names for men: a. Joe, b. Willie, c. Little Willie, d. Big Willie.

19. Persons with names like Michelle, Amber, Jennifer, Debbie, and Heather can't sing the Blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis.

20. Blues Name Starter Kit: a. name of physical infirmity (Blind, Cripple, Lame, etc.), b. first name (see above) plus name of fruit (Lemon, Lime, Peach, etc.), c. last name of President (Jefferson, Johnson, Fillmore, etc.). For example: Blind Lemon Jefferson, Pegleg Lime Johnson, or Cripple Peach Fillmore, etc.

 

[Derec]

14. Blues is not a matter of color. It's a matter of bad luck. Tiger Woods cannot sing the Blues.

Bad example I think. Having your ex
a) attack you with a golf club
b) you having to pay her hundreds of millions of dollars
counts as bad luck in my book. Who knows, since he's no good at golf anymore music may be a second career for him.

 

[credoconsolans]

14. Blues is not a matter of color. It's a matter of bad luck. Tiger Woods cannot sing the Blues.

Bad example I think. Having your ex
a) attack you with a golf club
b) you having to pay her hundreds of millions of dollars
counts as bad luck in my book. Who knows, since he's no good at golf anymore music may be a second career for him.

This was written before his marriage fell apart.

So yeah, you're right, he probably can now...but not on a golf course