So Joan Jett into Rock Hall... not 6 time platinum band Yes or 5 time Moody Blues

[Jimmy Higgins]

I know, prog rock should just be happy Rush made it in eventually. But it seems kind of odd that Joan Jett is getting inducted, despite not having the success of say a Yes or Moody Blues, who despite the more niche style of music, managed to sell a heck of lot of records and established at least one or more classic rock monument albums.

Seriously, what the heck?! Jett had one #1 single, to Yes's 1 and Moody Blues' 3. So it isn't like she had a good deal of hits either.

Other insane inductions for 2015 include Ringo Starr as a solo artist and Stevie Ray Vaughn as a guy who didn't live long enough to become a legend.

Should just call it the Music Critics Circle Jerk Hall of Fame.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Should just call it the Music Critics Circle Jerk Hall of Fame.

So, what you're saying is it wasn't 'I Love Rock N Roll' that got her in, it was the bikini flash on the 'Do You Wanna Touch Me?' video...

 

[KeepTalking]

At least Joan Jett is unambiguously Rock and Roll, with a #1 single to boot, I don't begrudge her the induction. Ringo Starr as a solo artist is stupid, but at least he fits the mold, having been in Rock and Roll band.

Can anyone tell me why the fuck The Paul Butterfield Blues Band, and The 5 Royales are being inducted? It's not like there isn't a Blues Hall of Fame, or a Soul Music Hall of Fame, and these guys are probably already inducted there. That's the problem I have with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. All of these artists and bands that are not actually Rock and Roll getting inducted. If not for that kind of thing, there would be more than enough room to induct bands like Yes and The Moody Blues.

 

[thebeave]

Probably an affirmative action pick.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

At least Joan Jett is unambiguously Rock and Roll, with a #1 single to boot, I don't begrudge her the induction. Ringo Starr as a solo artist is stupid, but at least he fits the mold, having been in Rock and Roll band.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but a single #1 hit to go into the Hall of Fame?

Can anyone tell me why the fuck The Paul Butterfield Blues Band, and The 5 Royales are being inducted? It's not like there isn't a Blues Hall of Fame, or a Soul Music Hall of Fame, and these guys are probably already inducted there. That's the problem I have with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. All of these artists and bands that are not actually Rock and Roll getting inducted. If not for that kind of thing, there would be more than enough room to induct bands like Yes and The Moody Blues.

As a prog rock fan, I'm used to a band like Yes not being inducted. It is when nominal acts with one or two hits gets inducted for no real particular reason. It'd be about as dumb as inducting the Bushwhackers into the WWE Hall of Fame.

...

Nevermind.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Didn't she get in more for her influence on the role of women in the rock and roll music industry rather than simply because of her music in and of itself?

 

[Underseer]

Probably an affirmative action pick.

Right. This is all part of the Feminazi conspiracy to persecute superior men.

 

[KeepTalking]

Didn't she get in more for her influence on the role of women in the rock and roll music industry rather than simply because of her music in and of itself?

It was actually Joan Jett & The Blackhearts that were inducted, so I don't think it was her personal influence that got the band inducted, though she is often cited as an influence for female and male rock artists. Patti Smith is also frequently listed as an influential female rock artists, and she was inducted in the Hall in 2010, despite never having a top 10 single. Joan Jett & The Blackheats actually have two other top 10 singles, in addition to their #1 single, so I'm not sure why there is a beef with them being inducted. As I mentioned previously, I think the larger issue is with all of these decidedly not rock and roll artists and bands getting inducted year after year.

 

[thebeave]

Probably an affirmative action pick.

Right. This is all part of the Feminazi conspiracy to persecute superior men.

I was wondering what was taking you so long to get here. I guess you had a lot of "/conservolibertarian" posts to make.

My comment was semi tongue in cheek. I certainly don't claim to be any kind of expert on the works of Joan Jett, Yes or Moody Blues. But, as an avid listener of Rock (mostly on the radio) as a teen and twenty something in the 70's and 80's, there is just no comparison. Honestly, I can only recall ever hearing two songs ever done by Joan Jett: I Love Rock & Roll and Crimson & Clover. Both cover tunes, that sound like they could have been arranged and performed by an average high school rock band. Yes and Moody Blues...completely the opposite. Lots of albums, original compositions, complex arrangements, lots of radio airplay, decades of performing live, etc. It makes absolutely no sense. It just goes to show you that these awards are, to a large degree, just political. You see it on the Academy Awards too. Old guys given a token Oscar for a mediocre performance so they have something before they check out. Stuff like that.

I'm reminded of a few years back when Jethro Tull was given the Grammy for Best Heavy Metal Performance. I was like, WTF?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Didn't she get in more for her influence on the role of women in the rock and roll music industry rather than simply because of her music in and of itself?

It was actually Joan Jett & The Blackhearts that were inducted, so I don't think it was her personal influence that got the band inducted, though she is often cited as an influence for female and male rock artists.

Ya, but isn't including the Blackhearts kind of like how whenever you give an award to Paul McCartney, you pretty much have to hand one to Ringo Starr as well because you know he's going to find a way to wrangle himself an invitation to the ceremony anyways and start strolling up to the stage and it saves a lot of awkwardness if you just include him in the first place?

Patti Smith is also frequently listed as an influential female rock artists, and she was inducted in the Hall in 2010, despite never having a top 10 single. Joan Jett & The Blackheats actually have two other top 10 singles, in addition to their #1 single, so I'm not sure why there is a beef with them being inducted. As I mentioned previously, I think the larger issue is with all of these decidedly not rock and roll artists and bands getting inducted year after year.

It likely has more to do with how the songs have held up over time than it does with how popular they were when they came out.

 

[ronburgundy]

Didn't she get in more for her influence on the role of women in the rock and roll music industry rather than simply because of her music in and of itself?

It was actually Joan Jett & The Blackhearts that were inducted, so I don't think it was her personal influence that got the band inducted, though she is often cited as an influence for female and male rock artists. Patti Smith is also frequently listed as an influential female rock artists, and she was inducted in the Hall in 2010, despite never having a top 10 single. Joan Jett & The Blackheats actually have two other top 10 singles, in addition to their #1 single, so I'm not sure why there is a beef with them being inducted. As I mentioned previously, I think the larger issue is with all of these decidedly not rock and roll artists and bands getting inducted year after year.

If it isn't specifically for her female influence, which was arguably more via The Runaways as an all teenage girl band in the 70's, then she should not be in. Her overall impact on Rock was minuscule compared to many acts not in the HOF. The reality is that no one would think to consider her if she was a man with the same songs and level of overall influence on the rock scene. But women in Rock, especially tough-imaged, "fuck-you" style women were a notable historical thing with cultural significance. Thus, recognizing that in the HOF is legit. OTOH, in term of female rockers, her impact was less (and songs less good) than Pat Benatar who is not in.

Speaking of women and bands with almost no female appeal, it is a travesty that Judas Priest and Iron Maiden are not in. They are widely regarded as pioneers of Metal, second only to Sabbath, who together reflect the origins of the two major branches of Metal, the faster-paced Metal often with high-pitched vocals and metal-studded head-to-toe leather (Priest and Maiden) versus the sludgier sound of Sabbath. They have put out albums and toured almost continually for 40 years with largely the same line-up, and contributed greatly to the satanic image of metal.

 

[KeepTalking]

It was actually Joan Jett & The Blackhearts that were inducted, so I don't think it was her personal influence that got the band inducted, though she is often cited as an influence for female and male rock artists.

Ya, but isn't including the Blackhearts kind of like how whenever you give an award to Paul McCartney, you pretty much have to hand one to Ringo Starr as well because you know he's going to find a way to wrangle himself an invitation to the ceremony anyways and start strolling up to the stage and it saves a lot of awkwardness if you just include him in the first place?

I think the difference would be that Joan Jett never really had a solo career outside of the Blackhearts and the Runaways, and the Blackhearts are still together. Although it could be argued that The Blackhearts is her solo career. The Beatles broke up early, and everyone in the band had a solo career afterwards, but no one paid attention to Ringo's solo career, as he was the least talented member of the band. Yet, he is still getting inducted as a solo artist this year.

Patti Smith is also frequently listed as an influential female rock artists, and she was inducted in the Hall in 2010, despite never having a top 10 single. Joan Jett & The Blackheats actually have two other top 10 singles, in addition to their #1 single, so I'm not sure why there is a beef with them being inducted. As I mentioned previously, I think the larger issue is with all of these decidedly not rock and roll artists and bands getting inducted year after year.

It likely has more to do with how the songs have held up over time than it does with how popular they were when they came out.

And I think as a whole, Joan Jett's singles have held up better over the years than Patti Smith, despite two of Jett's top 10 singles being cover songs. The original versions never got much radio play, and you still hear the Jett versions on the radio. You might still hear "Because the Night" occasionally on the radio, but you are more likely to hear to hear one of several Joan Jett & The Blackheart songs on any given day.

 

[KeepTalking]

It was actually Joan Jett & The Blackhearts that were inducted, so I don't think it was her personal influence that got the band inducted, though she is often cited as an influence for female and male rock artists. Patti Smith is also frequently listed as an influential female rock artists, and she was inducted in the Hall in 2010, despite never having a top 10 single. Joan Jett & The Blackheats actually have two other top 10 singles, in addition to their #1 single, so I'm not sure why there is a beef with them being inducted. As I mentioned previously, I think the larger issue is with all of these decidedly not rock and roll artists and bands getting inducted year after year.

If it isn't specifically for her female influence, which was arguably more via The Runaways as an all teenage girl band in the 70's, then she should not be in. Her overall impact on Rock was minuscule compared to many acts not in the HOF. The reality is that no one would think to consider her if she was a man with the same songs and level of overall influence on the rock scene. But women in Rock, especially tough-imaged, "fuck-you" style women were a notable historical thing with cultural significance. Thus, recognizing that in the HOF is legit. OTOH, in term of female rockers, her impact was less (and songs less good) than Pat Benatar who is not in.

The Runaway's were too short lived, and their music even more simplistic than Joan Jett and the Blackhearts. The Blackhearts also had more successful songs than the Runaways. The Runaways were big in Japan, but they never really took off in the US before they imploded. "Cherry Bomb" has seen a slight resurgence in recent years, some of that owing to it being on the Gaurdians of the Galaxy soundtrack. Few people can name any Runaways song other than "Cherry Bomb", and it did not even chart in the US. Don't get me wrong, I like the Runaways, but I never heard of them when they were still together, and never would have heard of them if not for Joan Jett and Lita Ford having successful solo career's afterwards.

Sure, I think Pat Benetar should be in the Hall as well, even though she crossed over into pop music, she is certainly more talented vocally than Jett. They should both be there, but come on, The 5 Royales? Who thought that was a good idea? What rock music fan has even heard of them? I took a look at their list of singles, and don't think I have heard any of them, I sure as hell don't recognize the song titles. They are listed as a Soul and R&B band, neither of which is actually Rock and Roll.

Speaking of women and bands with almost no female appeal, it is a travesty that Judas Priest and Iron Maiden are not in. They are widely regarded as pioneers of Metal, second only to Sabbath, who together reflect the origins of the two major branches of Metal, the faster-paced Metal often with high-pitched vocals and metal-studded head-to-toe leather (Priest and Maiden) versus the sludgier sound of Sabbath. They have put out albums and toured almost continually for 40 years with largely the same line-up, and contributed greatly to the satanic image of metal.

You won't get any argument from me on Priest or Maiden, they should be there as well. That still doesn't mean that Joan Jett and the Blackhearts are undeserving of the honor. It means that they should stop inducting bands and artists that aren't in any way Rock and Roll.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Ya, but isn't including the Blackhearts kind of like how whenever you give an award to Paul McCartney, you pretty much have to hand one to Ringo Starr as well because you know he's going to find a way to wrangle himself an invitation to the ceremony anyways and start strolling up to the stage and it saves a lot of awkwardness if you just include him in the first place?

I think the difference would be that Joan Jett never really had a solo career outside of the Blackhearts and the Runaways, and the Blackhearts are still together. Although it could be argued that The Blackhearts is her solo career. The Beatles broke up early, and everyone in the band had a solo career afterwards, but no one paid attention to Ringo's solo career, as he was the least talented member of the band. Yet, he is still getting inducted as a solo artist this year.

But the question is what is the basis? What in the heck has Ringo done outside of The Beatles?

And regarding Jett, Pat Benatar isn't in the rock hall, but Joan Jett is? Is it popularity, influence, critical success. What got Jett in there but not Pat Benatar or Heart, acts that had a lot more success. Heck, the Bangles only have a couple or a few true albums, and they were more popular than Joan Jett ever was.

 

[KeepTalking]

I think the difference would be that Joan Jett never really had a solo career outside of the Blackhearts and the Runaways, and the Blackhearts are still together. Although it could be argued that The Blackhearts is her solo career. The Beatles broke up early, and everyone in the band had a solo career afterwards, but no one paid attention to Ringo's solo career, as he was the least talented member of the band. Yet, he is still getting inducted as a solo artist this year.

But the question is what is the basis? What in the heck has Ringo done outside of The Beatles?

I have no clue, he has apparently done something, but I certainly have not heard it, and I'm not sure I want to.

And regarding Jett, Pat Benatar isn't in the rock hall, but Joan Jett is? Is it popularity, influence, critical success. What got Jett in there but not Pat Benatar or Heart, acts that had a lot more success. Heck, the Bangles only have a couple or a few true albums, and they were more popular than Joan Jett ever was.

Heart was inducted in 2013. I agree that Pat Benetar should be there, however, her music career did start a few years after Joan Jett, maybe she will be inducted soon. I have to entirely disagree with the Bangels, they may have charted more singles, but not on the rock charts, and they were significantly less talented than either Jett or Benatar. On the other hand, they have more business being in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame than The 5 Royales.

Why are complaining about Jett, a true Rock and Roller, when there are so many acts that are in no way Rock and Roll acts cluttering up the hall?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

But the question is what is the basis? What in the heck has Ringo done outside of The Beatles?

I have no clue, he has apparently done something, but I certainly have not heard it, and I'm not sure I want to.

That is just supposing a suppose.

And regarding Jett, Pat Benatar isn't in the rock hall, but Joan Jett is? Is it popularity, influence, critical success. What got Jett in there but not Pat Benatar or Heart, acts that had a lot more success. Heck, the Bangles only have a couple or a few true albums, and they were more popular than Joan Jett ever was.

Heart was inducted in 2013.

I apologize for uninducting them then.

I agree that Pat Benetar should be there, however, her music career did start a few years after Joan Jett, maybe she will be inducted soon. I have to entirely disagree with the Bangels, they may have charted more singles, but not on the rock charts, and they were significantly less talented than either Jett or Benatar. On the other hand, they have more business being in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame than The 5 Royales.

Why are complaining about Jett, a true Rock and Roller, when there are so many acts that are in no way Rock and Roll acts cluttering up the hall?

Well, more because of the acts that have been entirely ignored, the most popular being Yes, Moody Blues, Rush, Alan Parsons Project could be added as well, maybe even a King Crimson. I just don't get why a Jett gets in before. It isn't as if she unleashed a tidal wave of women rock artists.

 

[ronburgundy]

The Runaway's were too short lived, and their music even more simplistic than Joan Jett and the Blackhearts.

I wasn't thinking that the Runaway's by themselves should be in there, just that they are key to Jett having enough cumulative impact to warrant her induction. The Runnaways' were Jetts first band, and she recruited Lita Ford as the guitarist, and it was 5 young girls playing Rock. Also, there are stories that the 5 girls made a conscious decision to model their looks and stage personas after each of their music inspirations. Jett chose Suzi Quatro (Leather Tuscadero from Happy Days) who had hit singles in Britain at the time, and Jett's whole stick from then on was derivative of Quatro.
The Blackhearts are entirely about Jett, so the induction should be about Jett, and without the Runaways, Jett's historical impact falls short, IMO.

BTW, good avatar. Floyd is among the greatest bands of all time. Water's production of the Wall a few years ago was probably the most awesome live spectacle of any sort that I have seen. Too bad the boys couldn't keep their ego's in check. Pinkless Waters pales by comparison, and Waterless Floyd is just a ditch.

 

[Horatio Parker]

But the question is what is the basis? What in the heck has Ringo done outside of The Beatles?

He had two #1 hits, "Photograph", and "Sweet Sixteen".

So if hits are the basis, he's twice as deserving as Joan Jett.

 

[KeepTalking]

I have no clue, he has apparently done something, but I certainly have not heard it, and I'm not sure I want to.

That is just supposing a suppose.

And regarding Jett, Pat Benatar isn't in the rock hall, but Joan Jett is? Is it popularity, influence, critical success. What got Jett in there but not Pat Benatar or Heart, acts that had a lot more success. Heck, the Bangles only have a couple or a few true albums, and they were more popular than Joan Jett ever was.

Heart was inducted in 2013.

I apologize for uninducting them then.

I agree that Pat Benetar should be there, however, her music career did start a few years after Joan Jett, maybe she will be inducted soon. I have to entirely disagree with the Bangels, they may have charted more singles, but not on the rock charts, and they were significantly less talented than either Jett or Benatar. On the other hand, they have more business being in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame than The 5 Royales.

Why are complaining about Jett, a true Rock and Roller, when there are so many acts that are in no way Rock and Roll acts cluttering up the hall?

Well, more because of the acts that have been entirely ignored, the most popular being Yes, Moody Blues, Rush, Alan Parsons Project could be added as well, maybe even a King Crimson. I just don't get why a Jett gets in before. It isn't as if she unleashed a tidal wave of women rock artists.

I agree that Alan Parsons, and especially King Crimson should be in the Rock Hall by now, so should ELP and a host of other prog rockers, it's a shame that they are not. It's also a shame that more metal acts are not in the Hall. For some reason the Rock Hall historically tends to favor the contributions of more mainstream and punk rock acts, as well as blues and soul artists, over technically proficient rockers. I have more of a problem with the blues and soul inductions than actual rock bands.

Joan Jett's version of "I Love Rock and Roll" was an anthem for those of us who were into rock music in the '70's and '80's. It gave us something to rally around when first disco and then bubblegum pop ruled the airwaves. I remember a time riding the school buss to junior high when almost the entire buss full of kids was singing the song. It has a resonance for me, and many others of my generation. When I heard Joan Jett and the Blackhearts were getting the nod, I thought it was about time, they have been eligible for almost 15 years now. Yes, other artists have been waiting longer who may be more deserving, depending on what one values more with regard to rock music. I am a fan of all forms of rock (okay, soft rock is not really my bag), there are a ton of artists that should be in the Hall that are not there yet, but when you only induct 6 or 7 artists a year, and half of those are not even rock artists, some people are going to have to wait longer than others.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That is just supposing a suppose.

And regarding Jett, Pat Benatar isn't in the rock hall, but Joan Jett is? Is it popularity, influence, critical success. What got Jett in there but not Pat Benatar or Heart, acts that had a lot more success. Heck, the Bangles only have a couple or a few true albums, and they were more popular than Joan Jett ever was.

Heart was inducted in 2013.

I apologize for uninducting them then.

I agree that Pat Benetar should be there, however, her music career did start a few years after Joan Jett, maybe she will be inducted soon. I have to entirely disagree with the Bangels, they may have charted more singles, but not on the rock charts, and they were significantly less talented than either Jett or Benatar. On the other hand, they have more business being in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame than The 5 Royales.

Why are complaining about Jett, a true Rock and Roller, when there are so many acts that are in no way Rock and Roll acts cluttering up the hall?

Well, more because of the acts that have been entirely ignored, the most popular being Yes, Moody Blues, Rush, Alan Parsons Project could be added as well, maybe even a King Crimson. I just don't get why a Jett gets in before. It isn't as if she unleashed a tidal wave of women rock artists.

I agree that Alan Parsons, and especially King Crimson should be in the Rock Hall by now, so should ELP and a host of other prog rockers, it's a shame that they are not.

Firstly, I think The Alan Parsons Project deserves the rock hall. I don't know about Alan Parsons. He has only had a few albums, most of which were good, but absolutely nothing that had even the slightest radio play. And I don't think they have been inducting Engineers into the Rock Hall, at least not yet. I think he is absolutely great, have every album, but don't think his solo career post Project is notable enough to get him in alone. Certainly nothing like Ringo Starr. *wink*

It's also a shame that more metal acts are not in the Hall. For some reason the Rock Hall historically tends to favor the contributions of more mainstream and punk rock acts, as well as blues and soul artists, over technically proficient rockers. I have more of a problem with the blues and soul inductions than actual rock bands.

Joan Jett's version of "I Love Rock and Roll" was an anthem for those of us who were into rock music in the '70's and '80's. It gave us something to rally around when first disco and then bubblegum pop ruled the airwaves. I remember a time riding the school buss to junior high when almost the entire buss full of kids was singing the song. It has a resonance for me, and many others of my generation. When I heard Joan Jett and the Blackhearts were getting the nod, I thought it was about time, they have been eligible for almost 15 years now. Yes, other artists have been waiting longer who may be more deserving, depending on what one values more with regard to rock music.

What in the world is the threshold for getting into the Rock Hall? There doesn't seem to be one at all.

I am a fan of all forms of rock (okay, soft rock is not really my bag), there are a ton of artists that should be in the Hall that are not there yet, but when you only induct 6 or 7 artists a year, and half of those are not even rock artists, some people are going to have to wait longer than others.

Simply put, Yes are the kings of Prog Rock. While everyone gives props to Velvet Underground and Pink Floyd, Yes was more likely the bigger influence on pompous self-indulgent progressive music. Close to the Edge is one of the best compositions of all time, period. They were successful, sold lots of albums. Sure, inducting them (along with King Crimson) would require adding a wing to the Rock Hall due to the ever changing lineup, but I'm at a loss as to what is required to be inducted. Putting Joan Jett in breaks any mold that could have allegedly been used for induction requirements.