So... umm... about Passover?

[ideologyhunter]

Christ is saying... people are reading God of the bible wrongly.

Christ was wrong. I'm reading the Bible God correctly -- as primitive, violent, insistent on blood atonement, and in violation of the universal abhorrence of bondage and genocide about which we as a species have learned some very bitter lessons. If he existed, he also compiled or inspired the compilation of a very imperfect book that he knew would never find a common agreed-upon meaning. Christians can't even agree on whether Jesus' mom is a holy being with divine powers. Nah, this is a jerry-built structure of old myths, which requires major contortions of apologetics to make it sit well with the faithful. Check please.

 

[bilby]

As I said, Jesus is key for Christians. He tells us the morals of the God of the bible is superior.

Then he was WRONG.

The morals of the God of the bible are horrific; They are those of a gangster or tribal warlord, (which shouldn't be surprising as he was in fact a tribal war God).

FAR better morals are now available, and even most Christians demonstrate by their actions that they are far superior to the God described in their book.

 

[DBT]

God has a different moral perspective to what we have written in the bible as a set of laws and moral values?

Deeper, on multi-levels shall we say instead. Remember, the importance value of the Soul as compared to the physical body ( the body dies,returns to dust, but only he can make new).

Deeper? So deep that it contradicts the very values that we see expressed in the NT?

God is love. - 1 John 4:8

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.'' 1 Corinthians 13;


God is Love:
1. 'Love keeps no record of wrongs' as opposed to 'I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation.'

2. Love does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud as opposed to 'the Lord shall go forth as a mighty man, He shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: He shall cry, yea roar; He shall prevail against His enemies"

3. 'Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth' as opposed to 'therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.'

4. 'Love always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres' as opposed to 'shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?'

5. Love is patient, love is kind as opposed to He is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.


If Love does not keep records of wrongs, Love cannot punish children for the 'sins of their fathers.

If Love does not delight in evil, Love does not knowingly and deliberately create evil and suffering.

If Love always protects, Love does not create 'vessels fitted for destruction.'

 

[Learner]

Jesus said he did not come to end Mosaic Law, IOW Leviticus. He said Jews had become lax on divorce.

As Jesus' saying goes:
All the laws of the prophets hang on these two greatest commandments.

Love ,God with all your might, and the other one like it, love your neighbour as yourself.

So yeah...he didn't end them, you haven't highlighted any contradiction.

He lumped murder and fornication in the same sentence.

Sorry, no sale on Jesus and biblical morality.

It's not for everyone, but hey...the morality in the modern world is getting more exciting, closer to the days just like Noah.

I call Christian biblical morality a 'Chinese menu' morality.

Pick one from column A and one from column B.

You call it like you want steve-b old chum.

For the majority who are believers...

....faith without "picking from column A and one from B" is usually how it works most times. Jesus gets them through the 'feelies'. That is all that matters here in this regard.

 

[Learner]

Yeah, the idea that you can reasonably punish a ruler by punishing his people is OK for gangsters and warlords, but it's not really acceptable from a supposedly loving and moral God.

How did Pharaoh hold the Israelites by his lonesome self? Would be a question to ask if by your post, which seems to misleadingly suggest: that his people weren't ever a part of it.

Hitler and his nation(including children in the Hitler youth) who were totally behind him, were hounding and tormenting Jews, mirroring just a small reflection of the ancient Egyptians persecuting Israelites.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Yeah, the idea that you can reasonably punish a ruler by punishing his people is OK for gangsters and warlords, but it's not really acceptable from a supposedly loving and moral God.

How did Pharaoh hold the Israelites by his lonesome self? Would be a question to ask if by your post, which seems to misleadingly suggest: that his people weren't ever a part of it.

Hitler and his nation(including children in the Hitler youth) who were totally behind him, were hounding and tormenting Jews, mirroring just a small reflection of the ancient Egyptians persecuting Israelites.

So...you were dissembling when you said that in your faith, child murder is ALWAYS wrong. Because when God kills a child from every family, it's not wrong and you can't condemn it.
Would love to hear your take on II Samuel 12, where God sets the following punishment for David, because of adultery:
> in every subsequent generation, someone in David's family will suffer a violent death (DEATHS OF INNOCENTS)
> because David's adultery began on a rooftop, his ten concubines will be raped on a rooftop (SEXUAL ABUSE OF INNOCENT WOMEN)
> God kills David's infant son (KILLING OF CHILD FOR PARENT'S SIN)
The morality is berserk. The complete absence of compassion is, even in Bible terms, stark. Accepting this story as portraying a righteous god is pathetic.
I am guessing that II Samuel 12 is no impediment to your beliefs, that it's God being God, that it's beyond any moral accounting. God, in order to demonstrate that moral standards are necessary and adultery is sinful, puts a blood penalty on a family, arranges for 10 women to be raped in public, and kills an infant.
This god is not love. Jesus was wrong.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

We've only celebrated Passover a few times when I was younger, and I always thought the whole bit about murdering children was pretty weird.

 

[bilby]

Yeah, the idea that you can reasonably punish a ruler by punishing his people is OK for gangsters and warlords, but it's not really acceptable from a supposedly loving and moral God.

How did Pharaoh hold the Israelites by his lonesome self? Would be a question to ask if by your post, which seems to misleadingly suggest: that his people weren't ever a part of it.

Well, a better question (and one that doesn't falsely accuse me of being misleading), would be:

"How were Egyptian babies complicit in aiding Pharaoh to hold the israelites?".

Hitler and his nation(including children in the Hitler youth) who were totally behind him, were hounding and tormenting Jews, mirroring just a small reflection of the ancient Egyptians persecuting Israelites.

Sure, but the Hitlerjugend didn't recruit babies. You could, perhaps, make an argument that kids as young as ten years were guilty of crimes against Jews during the Shoah; But the HJ wasn't open to under-10s, and even had it been, it is hard to see how a baby could have meaningfully participated in it.

 

[ideologyhunter]

"How were Egyptian babies complicit in aiding Pharaoh to hold the israelites?".

Spot on -- there's a lot of children in the Bible dying for someone else's transgressions. Learner also (I'm presuming) finds no fault in Moses' and Joshua's men following divine orders to kill off all the young-uns. That's an awful lot of dead kids to reconcile with the loving nature of God. A JW doorknocker once told me, when I mentioned all the little ones massacred in the Bible, "But don't you know, God would take those little ones straight up to heaven." This I believe is called The Andrea Yates Wager, a bold new rethinking of the OT.

 

[steve_bank]

As I ikle to say if you wnat to understand the ancient bible look around today.

Nothing of late. There have been prominent Christina who claimed specific natural disasters were the wrath of god. Like punishing humanity for homosexuals.

Why is it gays and not god's punishment for political corruption?

 

[DBT]

As I ikle to say if you wnat to understand the ancient bible look around today.

Nothing of late. There have been prominent Christina who claimed specific natural disasters were the wrath of god. Like punishing humanity for homosexuals.

Why is it gays and not god's punishment for political corruption?

Well, it seems that the Trumps and the Putins of the world are our leaders or masters by the will and wisdom of the God of Love.

Romans 13:1, "For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist have been instituted by God".

 

[steve_bank]

One way I interpret the gospel Jesus is a Roman Jew who supported Rome and advocated getting along with Rome.

Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to god what is god's.

I don;t think Jews in Plasticine were the major population. there were Jews in Rome, Egypt, and Assyria. Jews were not monolithic and I think there were disputes over who were the real Jews descended from the ordinal tribes.

Jesus educated in Rome returns home at 30 years of age preaching to Palestine Jews.

Major Jewish populations in the ancient Roman Empire were concentrated in the eastern Mediterranean—specifically Alexandria (Egypt), Syria, and Asia Minor (Turkey)—with a significant, well-established community in the city of Rome itself. By the 1st century AD, roughly 10% of the empire was Jewish, with large communities also found in Cyrenaica (Libya) and Crete.