Split: Sanders impact on Abortion Laws

[untermensche]

You know nobody that has delusions about this authoritarian bogeyman called "socialism"?

Perhaps you have some of your own.

The only thing that has made capitalism bearable for most is socialism.

Free K-12 education is socialism. The government building and maintaining roads is socialism.

 

[TomC]

You know nobody that has delusions about this authoritarian bogeyman called "socialism"?

Perhaps you have some of your own.

The only thing that has made capitalism bearable for most is socialism.

Free K-12 education is socialism. The government building and maintaining roads is socialism.

Those aren't Sanders platform planks. Republicans support those.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

You know nobody that has delusions about this authoritarian bogeyman called "socialism"?

Perhaps you have some of your own.

The only thing that has made capitalism bearable for most is socialism.

Free K-12 education is socialism. The government building and maintaining roads is socialism.

Those aren't Sanders platform planks. Republicans support those.
Tom

They are mentioned in the Constitution. It is a socialist document that does not talk about capitalism.

The Republicans are merely opposed to making anything better.

They are a party that cares only about the interests of the top 5% and does nothing but lie and manipulate to get people to support them. Like fear mongering about socialism.

 

[TomC]

You know nobody that has delusions about this authoritarian bogeyman called "socialism"?

Perhaps you have some of your own.

The only thing that has made capitalism bearable for most is socialism.

Free K-12 education is socialism. The government building and maintaining roads is socialism.

Those aren't Sanders platform planks. Republicans support those.
Tom

They are mentioned in the Constitution. It is a socialist document that does not talk about capitalism.

The Republicans are merely opposed to making anything better.

They are a party that cares only about the interests of the top 5% and does nothing but lie and manipulate to get people to support them. Like fear mongering about socialism.

Free K-12 education is mentioned in the Constitution? Federal road construction?

You specified Sanders' policies. What you listed are decades old federal policies. Let's talk about taxpayer funded tuition to university.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

They are mentioned in the Constitution. It is a socialist document that does not talk about capitalism.

The Republicans are merely opposed to making anything better.

They are a party that cares only about the interests of the top 5% and does nothing but lie and manipulate to get people to support them. Like fear mongering about socialism.

Free K-12 education is mentioned in the Constitution? Federal road construction?

You specified Sanders' policies. What you listed are decades old federal policies. Let's talk about taxpayer funded tuition to university.
Tom

I was wrong about public education. That is just something founders like Jefferson and Adams supported.

But the Constitution does say:

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

What about expanding public education through college?

Bernie supports it.

The Republicans oppose it.

 

[TomC]

I was wrong about public education. That is just something founders like Jefferson and Adams supported.

But the Constitution does say:

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

What about expanding public education through college?

Bernie supports it.

The Republicans oppose it.

Post roads aren't the same as the "freeway" system built after WWII. That totally modern socialism at work, improving lives and creating American jobs.

But the higher education thing isn't as popular as you think. Lots of voters consider it a boondoggle, where Ivory Tower elites get paid to indoctrinate the youth in anti-American beliefs and CRT.
That's the reality.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

Post roads aren't the same as the "freeway" system built after WWII. That totally modern socialism at work, improving lives and creating American jobs.

It is modern socialism based on a Constitutional directive.

The Eisenhower highway system is used to deliver mail. It has other benefits as well.

But the higher education thing isn't as popular as you think. Lots of voters consider it a boondoggle, where Ivory Tower elites get paid to indoctrinate the youth in anti-American beliefs and CRT.
That's the reality.
Tom

I have not once talked about the popularity of public education through college.

I understand how pervasive and deep anti-social indoctrination is.

Despite it we have Social Security and Medicare.

 

[TomC]

Post roads aren't the same as the "freeway" system built after WWII. That totally modern socialism at work, improving lives and creating American jobs.

It is modern socialism based on a Constitutional directive.

The Eisenhower highway system is used to deliver mail. It has other benefits as well.

It was also used to crush light rail and other forms of efficient transportation. It boosted the fossil fuel powered transportation system, like GM and Ford and Chrysler. It was used to stomp on states rights, like when states who didn't implement the 55 speed limit got cut off highway funding.

But the higher education thing isn't as popular as you think. Lots of voters consider it a boondoggle, where Ivory Tower elites get paid to indoctrinate the youth in anti-American beliefs and CRT.
That's the reality.
Tom

I have not once talked about the popularity of public education through college.

But you have gone on about Sanders' electability. This was one of his signature policies.

I understand how pervasive and deep anti-social indoctrination is.

Despite it we have Social Security and Medicare.

Yet more old policies that aren't in question. Sanders and Trump agree on SSI. Don't touch it. That doesn't suggest any distinction between Sanders and the TeaParty.
Tom

 

[TomC]

I can tell you when I completely lost respect for Sanders' leadership quality.

There was a big Sanders rally, hugely publicized, somewhere in the Northwest. Seattle, maybe Portland.

Some BLM supporters stormed the stage, just before Sanders was supposed to come out and greet the big crowd. Instead of clearing the stage and addressing the people who came to hear him, he just didn't show. BLM took over his rally, and he let them. People who had driven hours to hear him give an address were just shit out of luck. He gave BLM a peace offering, he'd hear their concerns. Later. As if he'd never heard BLM concerns before.

Sanders can't manage his own rally in the face of opposition. I would never trust him to manage a country like the USA.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

But you have gone on about Sanders' electability. This was one of his signature policies.

?

I have gone on about the anti-democratic tactics that were used to defeat him.

 

[untermensche]

I can tell you when I completely lost respect for Sanders' leadership quality.

There was a big Sanders rally, hugely publicized, somewhere in the Northwest. Seattle, maybe Portland.

Some BLM supporters stormed the stage, just before Sanders was supposed to come out and greet the big crowd. Instead of clearing the stage and addressing the people who came to hear him, he just didn't show. BLM took over his rally, and he let them. People who had driven hours to hear him give an address were just shit out of luck. He gave BLM a peace offering, he'd hear their concerns. Later. As if he'd never heard BLM concerns before.

Sanders can't manage his own rally in the face of opposition. I would never trust him to manage a country like the USA.
Tom

So listening to the concerns of others instead of just giving a speech is a problem for you?

I have lost respect in your ability to make judgements.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The idea that Bernie Sanders or his supporters have anything to do with Trump is pure stupidity.

It is Hillary and her supporters that gave us Trump.

They colluded and through undemocratic means stole the nomination from Bernie.

Bernie was farther left than Hillary and thus would have driven more votes to His Flatulence.

 

[TomC]

I can tell you when I completely lost respect for Sanders' leadership quality.

There was a big Sanders rally, hugely publicized, somewhere in the Northwest. Seattle, maybe Portland.

Some BLM supporters stormed the stage, just before Sanders was supposed to come out and greet the big crowd. Instead of clearing the stage and addressing the people who came to hear him, he just didn't show. BLM took over his rally, and he let them. People who had driven hours to hear him give an address were just shit out of luck. He gave BLM a peace offering, he'd hear their concerns. Later. As if he'd never heard BLM concerns before.

Sanders can't manage his own rally in the face of opposition. I would never trust him to manage a country like the USA.
Tom

So listening to the concerns of others instead of just giving a speech is a problem for you?

I have lost respect in your ability to make judgements.

If the only people in America he cares about are BLM supporters who storm the stage, I don't have any respect for his leadership. He blew off hundreds of other people who wanted to hear what he had to say.

That was a strong message from Bernie Sanders.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Bernie won every single county in West Virginia. Hillary won ZERO.

How exactly in a democracy does she have any delegates?

The people voted against her BROADLY.

Yet somehow she had more delegates than Bernie.

If this doesn't bother you then you simply do not believe in democracy.

You're not proving your point--all you've shown is he was more popular than her in West Virginia. That doesn't mean the same thing applies nationwide.

Note, also, that what wins the primaries isn't necessarily what wins the general.

 

[untermensche]

Bernie won every single county in West Virginia. Hillary won ZERO.

How exactly in a democracy does she have any delegates?

The people voted against her BROADLY.

Yet somehow she had more delegates than Bernie.

If this doesn't bother you then you simply do not believe in democracy.

You're not proving your point--all you've shown is he was more popular than her in West Virginia. That doesn't mean the same thing applies nationwide.

Note, also, that what wins the primaries isn't necessarily what wins the general.

Not surprising you are clueless.

All I am saying is we have a clear case of undemocratic behavior. There is a lot more but West Virginia is a clear undisputed case.

But you don't care about democracy so the point sails over your head.

 

[untermensche]

I can tell you when I completely lost respect for Sanders' leadership quality.

There was a big Sanders rally, hugely publicized, somewhere in the Northwest. Seattle, maybe Portland.

Some BLM supporters stormed the stage, just before Sanders was supposed to come out and greet the big crowd. Instead of clearing the stage and addressing the people who came to hear him, he just didn't show. BLM took over his rally, and he let them. People who had driven hours to hear him give an address were just shit out of luck. He gave BLM a peace offering, he'd hear their concerns. Later. As if he'd never heard BLM concerns before.

Sanders can't manage his own rally in the face of opposition. I would never trust him to manage a country like the USA.
Tom

So listening to the concerns of others instead of just giving a speech is a problem for you?

I have lost respect in your ability to make judgements.

If the only people in America he cares about are BLM supporters who storm the stage, I don't have any respect for his leadership. He blew off hundreds of other people who wanted to hear what he had to say.

That was a strong message from Bernie Sanders.
Tom

Bernie wants to listen to the concerns of other people.

You have a problem with that.

I have a problem with your judgements.

 

[TomC]

Bernie won every single county in West Virginia. Hillary won ZERO.

How exactly in a democracy does she have any delegates?

The people voted against her BROADLY.

Yet somehow she had more delegates than Bernie.

If this doesn't bother you then you simply do not believe in democracy.

You're not proving your point--all you've shown is he was more popular than her in West Virginia. That doesn't mean the same thing applies nationwide.

Note, also, that what wins the primaries isn't necessarily what wins the general.

Not surprising you are clueless.

All I am saying is we have a clear case of undemocratic behavior. There is a lot more but West Virginia is a clear undisputed case.

But you don't care about democracy so the point sails over your head.

The Democratic Party isn't a democratic organization. It never was, although it used to be more so.

Neither is the Republican Party.

But Clinton won the Democratic nomination by democratic methods. She got the most primary votes. It's you who seems to have a problem with democracy, when the results don't suit you.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

Not surprising you are clueless.

All I am saying is we have a clear case of undemocratic behavior. There is a lot more but West Virginia is a clear undisputed case.

But you don't care about democracy so the point sails over your head.

The Democratic Party isn't a democratic organization. It never was, although it used to be more so.

Neither is the Republican Party.

But Clinton won the Democratic nomination by democratic methods. She got the most primary votes. It's you who seems to have a problem with democracy, when the results don't suit you.
Tom

I am saying they should be.

I want democracy, since the only alternative is some form of authoritarianism.

I at least expect people to be outraged by it and not accept it gladly.

 

[TomC]

Not surprising you are clueless.

All I am saying is we have a clear case of undemocratic behavior. There is a lot more but West Virginia is a clear undisputed case.

But you don't care about democracy so the point sails over your head.

The Democratic Party isn't a democratic organization. It never was, although it used to be more so.

Neither is the Republican Party.

But Clinton won the Democratic nomination by democratic methods. She got the most primary votes. It's you who seems to have a problem with democracy, when the results don't suit you.
Tom

I am saying they should be.

I want democracy, since the only alternative is some form of authoritarianism.

I at least expect people to be outraged by it and not accept it gladly.

I agree. The corruption in the American political system is why the USA is trending towards 2nd world status.

I strongly support federal legislation on things like gerrymandering. Also democratizing presidential elections, like
https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/

That's just two things.

Complaining about the Demopublicans in WV treating Sanders in a rational way, given their goals, isn't impressive to me.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

I am saying they should be.

I want democracy, since the only alternative is some form of authoritarianism.

I at least expect people to be outraged by it and not accept it gladly.

I agree. The corruption in the American political system is why the USA is trending towards 2nd world status.

I strongly support federal legislation on things like gerrymandering. Also democratizing presidential elections, like
https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/

That's just two things.

Complaining about the Demopublicans in WV treating Sanders in a rational way, given their goals, isn't impressive to me.
Tom

Sanders was treated in a non-democratic way.

You don't care about democracy.

Guess what you get from that?

NOTHING except what the masters want to give you.