Split: Sanders impact on Abortion Laws

[Toni]

The idea that Bernie Sanders or his supporters have anything to do with Trump is pure stupidity.

It is Hillary and her supporters that gave us Trump.

They colluded and through undemocratic means stole the nomination from Bernie.

yawn

I know there are many who don't support democracy and find the lack of democracy, in other words, authoritarianism, a bore.

Democracy means the people decide, not the party.

I know that there are many who don't support democracy if it involves people who do not belong to the same cult they do but actually have choices and exercise their ability to make those choices. I know that there are those who do not understand how the party system works although Bernie Sanders certainly does. That's why he's never formed his own party or run as a third party candidate but instead decides to join the Dems if he wants to run for national office and then leaves again if he doesn't get what he wants.

 

[untermensche]

I know there are many who don't support democracy and find the lack of democracy, in other words, authoritarianism, a bore.

Democracy means the people decide, not the party.

Expecting democracy from a political party is like expecting locally sourced produce at McDonald's. They aren't government agencies and have no mandate for internal democratic process.
Tom

I don't expect it like a naive child.

I merely recognize undemocratic behavior and understand it is authoritarian behavior and condemn it.

 

[untermensche]

I know there are many who don't support democracy and find the lack of democracy, in other words, authoritarianism, a bore.

Democracy means the people decide, not the party.

I know that there are many who don't support democracy if it involves people who do not belong to the same cult they do but actually have choices and exercise their ability to make those choices. I know that there are those who do not understand how the party system works although Bernie Sanders certainly does. That's why he's never formed his own party or run as a third party candidate but instead decides to join the Dems if he wants to run for national office and then leaves again if he doesn't get what he wants.

Bernie won every single county in West Virginia. Hillary won NONE.

But at the convention by some miracle not only did Hillary actually have delegates she had more than Bernie.

Not one of them was democratically won.

You simply don't care about fascist undemocratic events.

 

[TomC]

I know there are many who don't support democracy and find the lack of democracy, in other words, authoritarianism, a bore.

Democracy means the people decide, not the party.

I know that there are many who don't support democracy if it involves people who do not belong to the same cult they do but actually have choices and exercise their ability to make those choices. I know that there are those who do not understand how the party system works although Bernie Sanders certainly does. That's why he's never formed his own party or run as a third party candidate but instead decides to join the Dems if he wants to run for national office and then leaves again if he doesn't get what he wants.

Bernie won every single county in West Virginia. Hillary won NONE.

But at the convention by some miracle not only did Hillary actually have delegates she had more than Bernie.

Not one of them was democratically won.

You simply don't care about fascist undemocratic events.

Try looking at the whole USA.

Sorry, but Sanders' support was very deep, but not broad. The bulk of Democrats voted for Clinton, so many that she didn't actually need the superdelegates. Sanders is left of the bulk of Americans, even the Democrats. He demonstrated clearly that there's more support for his platform than conventional wisdom would suggest. But enough to win a presidential election? Not really.
And if he did. Then what? President Sanders wouldn't have a magic wand to overcome the opposition he would face, from both sides of the aisle. And he would have opposition from many, maybe most, Democrats on Capitol Hill. They weren't elected by leftists and they don't support Sanders' platform.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

Bernie won every single county in West Virginia. Hillary won NONE.

But at the convention by some miracle not only did Hillary actually have delegates she had more than Bernie.

Not one of them was democratically won.

You simply don't care about fascist undemocratic events.

Try looking at the whole USA.

Sorry, but Sanders' support was very deep, but not broad. The bulk of Democrats voted for Clinton, so many that she didn't actually need the superdelegates. Sanders is left of the bulk of Americans, even the Democrats. He demonstrated clearly that there's more support for his platform than conventional wisdom would suggest. But enough to win a presidential election? Not really.
And if he did. Then what? President Sanders wouldn't have a magic wand to overcome the opposition he would face, from both sides of the aisle. And he would have opposition from many, maybe most, Democrats on Capitol Hill. They weren't elected by leftists and they don't support Sanders' platform.
Tom

Bernie won every single county in West Virginia. Hillary won ZERO.

How exactly in a democracy does she have any delegates?

The people voted against her BROADLY.

Yet somehow she had more delegates than Bernie.

If this doesn't bother you then you simply do not believe in democracy.

 

[TomC]

Bernie won every single county in West Virginia. Hillary won NONE.

But at the convention by some miracle not only did Hillary actually have delegates she had more than Bernie.

Not one of them was democratically won.

You simply don't care about fascist undemocratic events.

Try looking at the whole USA.

Sorry, but Sanders' support was very deep, but not broad. The bulk of Democrats voted for Clinton, so many that she didn't actually need the superdelegates. Sanders is left of the bulk of Americans, even the Democrats. He demonstrated clearly that there's more support for his platform than conventional wisdom would suggest. But enough to win a presidential election? Not really.
And if he did. Then what? President Sanders wouldn't have a magic wand to overcome the opposition he would face, from both sides of the aisle. And he would have opposition from many, maybe most, Democrats on Capitol Hill. They weren't elected by leftists and they don't support Sanders' platform.
Tom

Bernie won every single county in West Virginia. Hillary won ZERO.

How exactly in a democracy does she have any delegates?

The people voted against her BROADLY.

Yet somehow she had more delegates than Bernie.

If this doesn't bother you then you simply do not believe in democracy.

I don't believe that the political parties are democratic, if that's what you meant. Neither of them.

But nevertheless, Sanders supporters are a very small piece of the electorate.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

Bernie won every single county in West Virginia. Hillary won ZERO.

How exactly in a democracy does she have any delegates?

The people voted against her BROADLY.

Yet somehow she had more delegates than Bernie.

If this doesn't bother you then you simply do not believe in democracy.

I don't believe that the political parties are democratic, if that's what you meant. Neither of them.

But nevertheless, Sanders supporters are a very small piece of the electorate.
Tom

It has nothing to do with belief.

Giving your opinions on Bernie's popularity has nothing to with what happened in West Virginia.

A clear case of anti-democratic thievery.

If it doesn't bother you then you don't believe in democracy.

There are only two alternatives. Some form of democracy where voters decide things or some form of authoritarianism where elites decide things in back rooms. There is nothing else.

 

[TomC]

There are only two alternatives. Some form of democracy where voters decide things or some form of authoritarianism where elites decide things in back rooms. There is nothing else.

Sanders lost the primaries because he didn't represent enough Dem voters to win it. No, the DNC isn't a democratic organization, but that's not why Clinton won. She won because she'd been a staunchly supportive member of the DNC for years and years, Sanders wasn't a Democrat until it got him a national stage.


Had Sanders won the primaries, the Republicans would have pulled out their big guns. How he's a Commie. Video clips of him saying horrible things about the Democratic party. That's just the first two tactics that pop into my head. Of course, they didn't do that during the campaign, Sanders was easy to beat in the election. They wanted him to stay in the running, as long as he was damaging the real competition, Clinton.
And clearly he did. Trump won. Enough people voted Trump, in key states like Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania to put Trump over the top in the EC. And by "voted Trump" I'm not necessarily saying pulled the Trump lever. Staying home, writing in Sanders, voting 3rd party, those were all votes for "whoever wins".
Which was Trump.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

So you have no opinion about the anti-democratic outcome in West Virginia?

Bernie has called himself a socialist for decades.

Yet he won every county in West Virginia.

Your opinions about Bernie are pulled from your backside and merely are a reflection of your indoctrination by authoritarians.

 

[TomC]

So you have no opinion about the anti-democratic outcome in West Virginia?

Bernie has called himself a socialist for decades.

Yet he won every county in West Virginia.

Your opinions are pulled from your backside.

Not well informed enough to be important.
Why is this one small state more important to you than the country?

My guess is that it suits your biases.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

So you have no opinion about the anti-democratic outcome in West Virginia?

Bernie has called himself a socialist for decades.

Yet he won every county in West Virginia.

Your opinions are pulled from your backside.

Not well informed enough to be important.
Why is this one small state more important to you than the country?

My guess is that it suits your biases.
Tom

Again, no opinion on a clearly authoritarian outcome in opposition to the broad consensus of the voters?

West Virginia is just an easy example to see the corruption. Can you see it?

There was a lot more.

And a lot more antidemocratic backroom deals in 2020.

 

[TomC]

So you have no opinion about the anti-democratic outcome in West Virginia?

Bernie has called himself a socialist for decades.

Yet he won every county in West Virginia.

Your opinions are pulled from your backside.

Not well informed enough to be important.
Why is this one small state more important to you than the country?

My guess is that it suits your biases.
Tom

Again, no opinion on a clearly authoritarian outcome in opposition to the broad consensus of the voters?

West Virginia is just an easy example to see the corruption. Can you see it?

There was a lot more.

And a lot more antidemocratic backroom deals in 2020.

I'm not sure why you think West Virginia is the only state that matters. Trump won there by a landslide, that was obvious from the beginning, WV simply didn't matter to the DNC.

Of course I can see the undemocratic systems of political parties. It's just part of the corrupt and rigged system the USA has been enjoying for decades.

Look at the whole country.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

Again, no opinion on a clearly authoritarian outcome in opposition to the broad consensus of the voters?

West Virginia is just an easy example to see the corruption. Can you see it?

There was a lot more.

And a lot more antidemocratic backroom deals in 2020.

I'm not sure why you think West Virginia is the only state that matters. Trump won there by a landslide, that was obvious from the beginning, WV simply didn't matter to the DNC.

Of course I can see the undemocratic systems of political parties. It's just part of the corrupt and rigged system the USA has been enjoying for decades.

Look at the whole country.
Tom

I have never once said West Virginia is the only state that matters.

I have said it is a very clear case of undemocratic behavior.

Which it is.

The parties are as undemocratic as we allow them to be.

The whole country has been indoctrinated for decades by corrupt capitalists opposed to social programs.

Yet Bernie won every county in West Virginia.

Amazing considering what he faced.

I have not even talked about the constant lies and distortions from the capitalist corporate media about him.

 

[TomC]

Authoritarian elites, cutting backroom deals, used fraud to steal the elections of both Sanders and Trump.

Just ask. Somebody will explain this to you.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

Authoritarian elites, cutting backroom deals, used fraud to steal the elections of both Sanders and Trump.

Just ask. Somebody will explain this to you.
Tom

Trump?

Trump crushed every Republican he faced because they are not crazy enough or incompetent enough for Republican voters anymore.

 

[TomC]

Authoritarian elites, cutting backroom deals, used fraud to steal the elections of both Sanders and Trump.

Just ask. Somebody will explain this to you.
Tom

Trump?

Trump crushed every Republican he faced because they are not crazy enough or incompetent enough for Republican voters anymore.

Google "Stop the Steal" for more information about how Trump was robbed of his landslide election.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

Authoritarian elites, cutting backroom deals, used fraud to steal the elections of both Sanders and Trump.

Just ask. Somebody will explain this to you.
Tom

Trump?

Trump crushed every Republican he faced because they are not crazy enough or incompetent enough for Republican voters anymore.

Google "Stop the Steal" for more information about how Trump was robbed of his landslide election.
Tom

Are you joking?

Now you use delusions to make a point?

What is your point again?

 

[TomC]

Google "Stop the Steal" for more information about how Trump was robbed of his landslide election.
Tom

Are you joking?

Now you use delusions to make a point?

What is your point again?

My point is that Sanders never had a chance to win the nomination, much less the national election. He just isn't representative of enough American voters.

You keep talking about one utterly unimportant state while refusing to talk about the USA as a whole. You keep talking about undemocratic processes in a private corporation, even though the winner was the top vote getter in the election.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

Google "Stop the Steal" for more information about how Trump was robbed of his landslide election.
Tom

Are you joking?

Now you use delusions to make a point?

What is your point again?

My point is that Sanders never had a chance to win the nomination, much less the national election. He just isn't representative of enough American voters.

You keep talking about one utterly unimportant state while refusing to talk about the USA as a whole. You keep talking about undemocratic processes in a private corporation, even though the winner was the top vote getter in the election.
Tom

You don't like clear examples.

Neither Trump nor Biden represent a majority of Americans.

You are using widespread delusions as arguments.

Like the widespread delusions about Bernie and his policies to help ordinary people and not just the rich.

 

[TomC]

My point is that Sanders never had a chance to win the nomination, much less the national election. He just isn't representative of enough American voters.

You keep talking about one utterly unimportant state while refusing to talk about the USA as a whole. You keep talking about undemocratic processes in a private corporation, even though the winner was the top vote getter in the election.
Tom

You don't like clear examples.

Neither Trump nor Biden represent a majority of Americans.

You are using widespread delusions as arguments.

Like the widespread delusions about Bernie and his policies to help ordinary people and not just the rich.

I'll ask.
What widespread delusions are you referring to in the last sentence? I prefer his platform over anybody's in the two elections he switched to (D). But I'm being realistic about his electability and effectiveness.

What happened in the Democratic primary in a state that voted Trump by 70% isn't particularly important. Unless you suffer from the delusion that political parties are democratic institutions. They're not.
Tom