Stanford man's account of being sexually assaulted

[bilby]

Those actually have nothing to do with definitions of consent. They're straight up rape.

I believe they are the reason universities and colleges are grappling with this issue.

How do you tell the difference between someone willingly under the influence of alcohol and someone unwittingly under the influence of GHB? If you can't tell the difference, then the only safe course of action is hands-off until s/he sobers up, because if you have sex and it turns out s/he was drugged, it's your ass on the line.

Well, in most cases, the easiest way to tell is to remember whether or not you slipped drugs into her drink.

Or are there lots of philanthropic drug suppliers out there, spiking random women's drinks and then leaving the victims to be picked up by someone totally uninvolved in the drink spiking?

 

[Arctish]

I believe they are the reason universities and colleges are grappling with this issue.

How do you tell the difference between someone willingly under the influence of alcohol and someone unwittingly under the influence of GHB? If you can't tell the difference, then the only safe course of action is hands-off until s/he sobers up, because if you have sex and it turns out s/he was drugged, it's your ass on the line.

Well, in most cases, the easiest way to tell is to remember whether or not you slipped drugs into her drink.

Or are there lots of philanthropic drug suppliers out there, spiking random women's drinks and then leaving the victims to be picked up by someone totally uninvolved in the drink spiking?

That appears to be the case at Brown, and University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, and UC Berkeley, and Duke, and so many more I could spend all night finding examples. Anyway, the point is that colleges and universities are not getting involved with this issue because their Administrators are all a bunch of busybodies. They are involved because sexual assaults are happening on their campuses, and they have no choice but to address the issue.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well, in most cases, the easiest way to tell is to remember whether or not you slipped drugs into her drink.

Or are there lots of philanthropic drug suppliers out there, spiking random women's drinks and then leaving the victims to be picked up by someone totally uninvolved in the drink spiking?

That appears to be the case at Brown, and University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, and UC Berkeley, and Duke, and so many more I could spend all night finding examples. Anyway, the point is that colleges and universities are not getting involved with this issue because their Administrators are all a bunch of busybodies. They are involved because sexual assaults are happening on their campuses, and they have no choice but to address the issue.

And the way to deal with that is to deal with sexual assaults as opposed to dealing with things that aren't sexual assaults. If there's a rash of bike thefts on campus, you don't just go around suspending people walking near the bike racks. You focus your resources on those who are actually stealing bikes.

 

[J842P]

Well, in most cases, the easiest way to tell is to remember whether or not you slipped drugs into her drink.

Or are there lots of philanthropic drug suppliers out there, spiking random women's drinks and then leaving the victims to be picked up by someone totally uninvolved in the drink spiking?

That appears to be the case at Brown, and University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, and UC Berkeley, and Duke, and so many more I could spend all night finding examples. Anyway, the point is that colleges and universities are not getting involved with this issue because their Administrators are all a bunch of busybodies. They are involved because sexual assaults are happening on their campuses, and they have no choice but to address the issue.

Actually, it appears that none of those cases would be examples of what bilby was asking for. Indeed, they seem to be clear-cut cases of rape by drugging. I don't like calling them "date-rape" because they only infrequently involve actual dates. Perhaps "party-rape" is a better term for the modern phenomenon.

Anyway, if anything, the cases you linked to would be examples that bolster bilby's point, that such cases are able to be told apart from cases of drunken sex.

 

[Arctish]

That appears to be the case at Brown, and University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, and UC Berkeley, and Duke, and so many more I could spend all night finding examples. Anyway, the point is that colleges and universities are not getting involved with this issue because their Administrators are all a bunch of busybodies. They are involved because sexual assaults are happening on their campuses, and they have no choice but to address the issue.

Actually, it appears that none of those cases would be examples of what bilby was asking for. Indeed, they seem to be clear-cut cases of rape by drugging. I don't like calling them "date-rape" because they only infrequently involve actual dates. Perhaps "party-rape" is a better term for the modern phenomenon.

Anyway, if anything, the cases you linked to would be examples that bolster bilby's point, that such cases are able to be told apart from cases of drunken sex.

bilby asked about situations in which people were having sex with students they did not personally drug. That appears to be happening at some fraternities where the "philanthropic drug suppliers " help their frat bros out by drugging the cute girls at a party, making them easy targets. It's an old trick, you know. Sigma Asshat #1 slips the cuties a little Rohypnol, Sigma Asshat #2 through #6 get their rocks off, and if one of the girls remembers Sigma Asshat #5 on top of her that night, he says he didn't drug her, he just thought she was a little tipsy and really into it, so he's blameless and she's a vindictive bitch.

Sometimes that trick still works, which is probably why we keep hearing about sexual predators and gangs of fratboys using it.

 

[bilby]

Actually, it appears that none of those cases would be examples of what bilby was asking for. Indeed, they seem to be clear-cut cases of rape by drugging. I don't like calling them "date-rape" because they only infrequently involve actual dates. Perhaps "party-rape" is a better term for the modern phenomenon.

Anyway, if anything, the cases you linked to would be examples that bolster bilby's point, that such cases are able to be told apart from cases of drunken sex.

bilby asked about situations in which people were having sex with students they did not personally drug. That appears to be happening at some fraternities where the "philanthropic drug suppliers " help their frat bros out by drugging the cute girls at a party, making them easy targets. It's an old trick, you know. Sigma Asshat #1 slips the cuties a little Rohypnol, Sigma Asshat #2 through #6 get their rocks off, and if one of the girls remembers Sigma Asshat #5 on top of her that night, he says he didn't drug her, he just thought she was a little tipsy and really into it, so he's blameless and she's a vindictive bitch.

Sometimes that trick still works, which is probably why we keep hearing about sexual predators and gangs of fratboys using it.

Not quite; YOU were talking about how a boy could tell whether a girl was drugged. I suggested that it was highly implausible that she would be drugged, but that a boy who was in a position to pick her up wouldn't know - because there seems little chance that someone would drug a girl and then leave her to be picked up by a person who is not in on the crime. What would be the point?

I believe they are the reason universities and colleges are grappling with this issue.

How do you tell the difference between someone willingly under the influence of alcohol and someone unwittingly under the influence of GHB? If you can't tell the difference, then the only safe course of action is hands-off until s/he sobers up, because if you have sex and it turns out s/he was drugged, it's your ass on the line.

Well, in most cases, the easiest way to tell is to remember whether or not you slipped drugs into her drink.

Or are there lots of philanthropic drug suppliers out there, spiking random women's drinks and then leaving the victims to be picked up by someone totally uninvolved in the drink spiking?

In the scenario you outlined, "Sigma asshat #5" wants 'plausible deniability', but he does know - even if he pretends that he doesn't.

 

[Arctish]

bilby asked about situations in which people were having sex with students they did not personally drug. That appears to be happening at some fraternities where the "philanthropic drug suppliers " help their frat bros out by drugging the cute girls at a party, making them easy targets. It's an old trick, you know. Sigma Asshat #1 slips the cuties a little Rohypnol, Sigma Asshat #2 through #6 get their rocks off, and if one of the girls remembers Sigma Asshat #5 on top of her that night, he says he didn't drug her, he just thought she was a little tipsy and really into it, so he's blameless and she's a vindictive bitch.

Sometimes that trick still works, which is probably why we keep hearing about sexual predators and gangs of fratboys using it.

Not quite; YOU were talking about how a boy could tell whether a girl was drugged. I suggested that it was highly implausible that she would be drugged, but that a boy who was in a position to pick her up wouldn't know - because there seems little chance that someone would drug a girl and then leave her to be picked up by a person who is not in on the crime. What would be the point?

The point is to render a person incapable of resisting sexual contact. Sometimes the target gets away. Sometimes the target gets away from one predator only to run into another.

You have no way to verify this, so you don't have to take my word on it, but it happened to a woman I know. She and her friend were out, realized someone had put something in their drinks, and got into a cab headed home immediately. They got back to the one girl's apartment, but her roommate had some friends over that night. Next morning, my friend woke up with her shirt over her face, her pants and undergarments removed, a sticky residue on her skin, and a memory of a stranger on top of her and being unable to raise her arms to fend him off. The results of the pregnancy test a couple of weeks later just confirmed what she understood had happened. One of the assholes visiting that night found a drugged girl and seized his chance to get his freak on without having to bother with that little matter of actual, genuine, valid consent.

I believe they are the reason universities and colleges are grappling with this issue.

How do you tell the difference between someone willingly under the influence of alcohol and someone unwittingly under the influence of GHB? If you can't tell the difference, then the only safe course of action is hands-off until s/he sobers up, because if you have sex and it turns out s/he was drugged, it's your ass on the line.

Well, in most cases, the easiest way to tell is to remember whether or not you slipped drugs into her drink.

Or are there lots of philanthropic drug suppliers out there, spiking random women's drinks and then leaving the victims to be picked up by someone totally uninvolved in the drink spiking?

In the scenario you outlined, "Sigma asshat #5" wants 'plausible deniability', but he does know - even if he pretends that he doesn't.

Maybe he does. Or maybe he doesn't. It doesn't matter. What matters is whether #5 thinks he has genuine, valid, actual consent from a girl who is showing unmistakable signs of intoxication.