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Still think the Russians aren't involved in Ukraine?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/0...ptured-by-ukraine-crossed-border-by-accident/

Admittedly it's Faux Noise but I don't think they're going to lie about something like this.

Why not? They do it all the time. Russians I know in North Hollywood very strongly feel Ukraine was, is, and always will be a part of Russia...not my idea because I truly don't know. Putin truly is taking advantage of pro Russian sentiments wherever he can find them. He is a pure rotten politician, but not one bit more crooked and conniving than our own. The disease of war comes from politicians on all sides of every conflict. The number of people killed in the Ukraine has surpassed the number killed in Gaza at this time, so it is a serious matter there. These are all Caucasians.

If there are Russian special forces at work in Ukraine, how can the U.S. complain? That is U.S. standard operating procedure. The people in both our countries have watched altogether too many war propaganda movies and I am quite sure neither has a lock on deviousness. These contests are largely between oligarchs and the people just get burnt in the middle. The problem is militarism and almost universal acceptance of covert operations by most people in most countries. There has to be a standard for human behavior that has to apply to politicians and their underlings as well if we ever want to stop having these conflicts. We need a United Nations where NO COUNTRY HAS VETO POWER. As it is, the U.N. "countries" are just cliques of politicians who manage to show up at the U.N. and say they represent their countries. I feel the U.N. has failed to organize itself in such a manner as would empower it to resolve these disputes. It does far better dealing with disease than with the primary disease of man....war.
 
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/0...ptured-by-ukraine-crossed-border-by-accident/

Admittedly it's Faux Noise but I don't think they're going to lie about something like this.

Is there anyone who seriously doubted it? I've read a score of articles in the past six months and never read anything that actually believed Putin's propaganda. Heck, even the Russian insurgents brag about it. Putin has nothing but contempt for Ukrainians (e.g. "There not even a real country") and longs for rebuilding the Soviet-Russian empire. It's only a matter of time before the Ukraine becomes little more than a tributary state. Then he will move on to other previous Soviet property.

I wonder when the Baltic's are next?

It's cold war II.
 
Russia IS involved in Ukraine, they take refugees form eastern Ukraine, send humanitarian aid, russian hospitals take wounded ukrainian soldiers. As for these 10 soldiers, I tend to to buy russian version of events. And Russia does not make a big deal when ukrainian soldiers enter russian territory they don't make big deal even when ukrainian bombs occasionally fall on russian towns near border.
And this incident seems kinda deflating from previous claims of ukrainan president about russian millitary convoy being destroyed by ukrainian forces, remember that claim? it did not go anywhere becasue it was a lie and now they come out with a much smaller lie.

as for US, they should do their homework before start meddling in other countries affairs.
 
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Russia IS involved in Ukraine, they take refugees form eastern Ukraine, send humanitarian aid, russian hospitals take wounded ukrainian soldiers. As for these 10 soldiers, I tend to to buy russian version of events.
as for US, they should do their homework before start meddling in other countries affairs.

And they ship weapons, including tanks and artillery, to their mercenary insurgents. Which do you read, Pravda or Izvestia?
 
Russia IS involved in Ukraine, they take refugees form eastern Ukraine, send humanitarian aid, russian hospitals take wounded ukrainian soldiers. As for these 10 soldiers, I tend to to buy russian version of events.
as for US, they should do their homework before start meddling in other countries affairs.

And they ship weapons, including tanks and artillery, to their mercenary insurgents. What do you read, Pravda or Izvestia?
There is no evidence of that and I read White House/Pentagon press releases
 
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/0...ptured-by-ukraine-crossed-border-by-accident/

Admittedly it's Faux Noise but I don't think they're going to lie about something like this.

Why not? They do it all the time. Russians I know in North Hollywood very strongly feel Ukraine was, is, and always will be a part of Russia...not my idea because I truly don't know.
Really, well I met a couple of Ukrainians who feel that the Ukraine should belong to the Ukraine. Funny how the don't buy into Russian imperialism.

If there are Russian special forces at work in Ukraine, how can the U.S. complain?
You mean if there are Russian invaders at work in the Ukraine, how can the Ukraine complain? How cheeky of them.

...These contests are largely between oligarchs and the people just get burnt in the middle. The problem is militarism and almost universal acceptance of covert operations by most people in most countries.
Oh yes, I see. Those Ukrainians are just like Russians - a pox on their people and their freely elected new President.
 
And they ship weapons, including tanks and artillery, to their mercenary insurgents. What do you read, Pravda or Izvestia?
There is no evidence of that.

Are you or were you a communist? That sort of obdurate playback of the party line was quite common in the 1930s. As many dissenting socialists noted, a good Stalinist NEVER deviated a mm from the latest and ever changing plotline from Moscow.
 
There is no evidence of that.

Are you or were you a communist? That sort of obdurate playback of the party line was quite common in the 1930s. As many dissenting socialists noted, a good Stalinist NEVER deviated a mm from the latest and ever changing plotline from Moscow.
No, I am not and never have been a communist, and I really hate them.
And as I said, I read Pentagon/White House PRs, so direct your accusations to them
 
Are you or were you a communist? That sort of obdurate playback of the party line was quite common in the 1930s. As many dissenting socialists noted, a good Stalinist NEVER deviated a mm from the latest and ever changing plotline from Moscow.
No, I am not and never have been a communist, and I really hate them.
And as I said, I read Pentagon/White House PRs, so direct your accusations to them

As the Pentagon and the White House believe that the Russians are supplying both fighters and military equipment (as does all of Western Europe/Nato, and their intelligence agencies (as well as independent intelligence providers such as Janes)) I have no idea what is inspiring you to be a transmission belt for Moscow disinformation.
 
No, I am not and never have been a communist, and I really hate them.
And as I said, I read Pentagon/White House PRs, so direct your accusations to them

As the Pentagon and the White House believe that the Russians are supplying both fighters and military equipment (as does all of Western Europe/Nato, and their intelligence agencies (as well as independent intelligence providers such as Janes)) I have no idea what is inspiring you to be a transmission belt for Moscow disinformation.
Yes, White House believed Saddam Hussein had WMD.
 
Are you or were you a communist? That sort of obdurate playback of the party line was quite common in the 1930s. As many dissenting socialists noted, a good Stalinist NEVER deviated a mm from the latest and ever changing plotline from Moscow.
No, I am not and never have been a communist, and I really hate them.
And as I said, I read Pentagon/White House PRs, so direct your accusations to them

You already admitted in one of the first ukraine threads (after a looong back and forth about it), that your primary source of "trusted" news is Russian; so let's not pretend like that never happened and that you're *not* getting your opinions from Putin's state media, shall we?
 
No, I am not and never have been a communist, and I really hate them.
And as I said, I read Pentagon/White House PRs, so direct your accusations to them

You already admitted in one of the first ukraine threads (after a looong back and forth about it), that your primary source of "trusted" news is Russian; so let's not pretend like that never happened and that you're *not* getting your opinions from Putin's state media, shall we?
How is your comment related to my post?
And yes, White House and Pentagon have admitted on multiple occasions that they have no evidence of anything you read in your trusted news sources.
 
I'm pretty sure Russian soldiers inside the Ukraine is evidence of Russian involvement in the Ukraine.

..wait, has barbos switched from touting RT as a trustworthy source to claiming his opinions are based on what is published by the White House?
 
I'm pretty sure Russian soldiers inside the Ukraine is evidence of Russian involvement in the Ukraine.

Or that the CIA drugged a group of Russian Special Forces and moved them onto the Ukranian side of the border before they woke up. I think that's a little bit more likely than the contention that members of the Russian military were operating in an area that the Russian government has a military interest in, don't you?
 
First: they are not special forces, just ordinary soldiers (10 of them) with freaking passports on them.
Second: so far about half a thousand of ukrainian soldiers were "caught" in Russian territory across the border.
I don't hear crying over Ukrainians invading Russia.
 
Was there not a story two weeks ago about 20 or more Russian armored vehicles witnessed by Western reporters driving and disappearing into the Ukraine?
 
Was there not a story two weeks ago about 20 or more Russian armored vehicles witnessed by Western reporters driving and disappearing into the Ukraine?

Yes, although I believe they were military vehicles, not specifically armoured vehicles.
 
Was there not a story two weeks ago about 20 or more Russian armored vehicles witnessed by Western reporters driving and disappearing into the Ukraine?

Yes, although I believe they were military vehicles, not specifically armoured vehicles.

Todays News in New York Times suggests Russians have created a 3rd front and is now making a stealth invasion:

Ukraine Says Russian Forces Lead Major New Offensive in East

By ANDREW E. KRAMER and MICHAEL R. GORDONAUG. 27, 2014
Photo

Ukrainian soldiers regrouped in a defensive position after coming under heavy shelling in Novoazovsk, a border town near Russia in southeastern Ukraine. Credit Mauricio Lima for The New York Times

NOVOAZOVSK, Ukraine — Tanks, artillery and infantry have crossed from Russia into an unbreached part of eastern Ukraine in recent days, attacking Ukrainian forces and causing panic and wholesale retreat not only in this small border town but a wide swath of territory, in what Ukrainian and Western military officials are calling a stealth invasion.

The attacks outside this city and in an area to the north essentially have opened a new, third front in the war in eastern Ukraine between government forces and pro-Russian separatists, along with the fighting outside the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk.

Exhausted, filthy and dismayed, Ukrainian soldiers staggering out of Novoazovsk for safer territory said Tuesday that the forces coming from Russia had treated them like cannon fodder. As they spoke, tank shells whistled in from the east and exploded nearby. ...

ome troops were in a full, chaotic retreat: a city-busload of them careened past on the highway headed west, purple curtains flapping through windows shot out by gunfire.

Their behavior corroborated assertions by Western and Ukrainian officials that Russia, despite its strenuous denials, is orchestrating a new counteroffensive to help the besieged separatists of the Donetsk People’s Republic, who have been reeling from aggressive Ukrainian military advances in recent weeks.

The Obama administration, which has placed increasingly punitive economic sanctions on Russia over the Ukraine crisis, on Tuesday asserted that the Russians had sent new columns of tanks and armor across the border. The American ambassador to Kiev, Geoffrey Pyatt, said a “Russian-directed counteroffensive may be underway.”

Russian forces have been trying to help the separatists break the siege of Luhansk and have been fighting to open a corridor to Donetsk from the Ukrainian-Russian border, Western officials say.

To the south, Russia has been backing a separatist push toward the southern town of Mariupol, a major port on the Azov Sea, according to Western and Ukrainian officials. The Russian aim, one Western official said, is to open a new front that would divert Ukrainian forces from Donetsk and Lukhansk and to possibly seize an outlet to the sea in the event that Russia tries to establish a separatist enclave in eastern Ukraine.

Some Western officials fear the move might even be a step in what they suspect is a broader Russian strategy to carve out a land link to Crimea, the strategic Ukrainian peninsula that Russia annexed in March, setting off Moscow’s worst crisis with the West since the Cold War....

Several weeks ago the Ukrainian military was poised to slowly crush the insurgent pockets. At the time folks noted that either sanctions would make Putin rethink his actions OR he would ignore them and increase military intervention and aggression.

Putin does not care, he is moving...
 
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