Still think the Russians aren't involved in Ukraine?

[Loren Pechtel]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/0...ptured-by-ukraine-crossed-border-by-accident/

Admittedly it's Faux Noise but I don't think they're going to lie about something like this.

Is there anyone who seriously doubted it? I've read a score of articles in the past six months and never read anything that actually believed Putin's propaganda. Heck, even the Russian insurgents brag about it. Putin has nothing but contempt for Ukrainians (e.g. "There not even a real country") and longs for rebuilding the Soviet-Russian empire. It's only a matter of time before the Ukraine becomes little more than a tributary state. Then he will move on to other previous Soviet property.

I wonder when the Baltic's are next?

It's cold war II.

Read this thread. We have doubters.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, White House believed Saddam Hussein had WMD.

Actually, quite understandable. Saddam believed he had WMD. We fell victim to a disinformation campaign aimed at him.

- - - Updated - - -

First: they are not special forces, just ordinary soldiers (10 of them) with freaking passports on them.
Second: so far about half a thousand of ukrainian soldiers were "caught" in Russian territory across the border.
I don't hear crying over Ukrainians invading Russia.

Those soldiers were retreating, not invading. It's just the only retreat path open was through Russia.

 

[barbos]

First: they are not special forces, just ordinary soldiers (10 of them) with freaking passports on them.
Second: so far about half a thousand of ukrainian soldiers were "caught" in Russian territory across the border.
I don't hear crying over Ukrainians invading Russia.

Those soldiers were retreating, not invading. It's just the only retreat path open was through Russia.

Exactly, and these 10 walked in by accident.

 

[barbos]

Was there not a story two weeks ago about 20 or more Russian armored vehicles witnessed by Western reporters driving and disappearing into the Ukraine?

Yes, that story went to meet another story "witnessed" by Western reporters the one about russian snipers in Odessa incident.

 

[Ford]

Those soldiers were retreating, not invading. It's just the only retreat path open was through Russia.

Exactly, and these 10 walked in by accident.

Not only that, but the fact that Ukraine borders Russia was an accident. Putin has absolutely no idea how an entire country wound up on his nation's borders, but rest assured he's trying really hard to keep his soldiers from wandering across a border which suddenly appeared out of nowhere. Any "invasion" is purely accidental. They just had no idea that this "Ukraine" place was their neighbor.

 

[barbos]

Yes, White House believed Saddam Hussein had WMD.

Actually, quite understandable. Saddam believed he had WMD. We fell victim to a disinformation campaign aimed at him.

Yes, White House was very good at that disinformation campaign.

 

[barbos]

Exactly, and these 10 walked in by accident.

Not only that, but the fact that Ukraine borders Russia was an accident. Putin has absolutely no idea how an entire country wound up on his nation's borders, but rest assured he's trying really hard to keep his soldiers from wandering across a border which suddenly appeared out of nowhere. Any "invasion" is purely accidental. They just had no idea that this "Ukraine" place was their neighbor.

You can laugh all you want but technically there is no marked border there. So accidents happens, especially considering that there are no regular ukrainian forces guarding the border. And word is, the whole thing was a provocation from ukrainians, they say ukrainians asked russians for transport to Russia for wounded, but there was ambush waiting for them instead.

 

[maxparrish]

Not only that, but the fact that Ukraine borders Russia was an accident. Putin has absolutely no idea how an entire country wound up on his nation's borders, but rest assured he's trying really hard to keep his soldiers from wandering across a border which suddenly appeared out of nowhere. Any "invasion" is purely accidental. They just had no idea that this "Ukraine" place was their neighbor.

You can laugh all you want but technically there is no marked border there. So accidents happens, especially considering that there are no regular ukrainian forces guarding the border. And word is, the whole thing was a provocation from ukrainians, they say ukrainians asked russians for transport to Russia for wounded, but there was ambush waiting for them instead.

I understand some folks have offered to send maps to those lost paratroopers! I think I have an Michelin map I could drop in the mail - they have post offices in Russia, right?

PS Apparently their maps are really poor, they were taken 20KM from the border.

 

[Ford]

You can laugh all you want but technically there is no marked border there.

You can make excuses all you want, but the fact is that your pal Putin is engaged in the process of wiping Ukraine off the map, and you're cheering him on.

 

[maxparrish]

The mixed convoy includes at least three T-72B1 Main Battle Tanks (MBTs) but it is the appearance of a lone, more modern T-72 variant (shown below) that is of particular significance. his variant, distinguished by the prominent Kontakt-5 Explosive Reactive Armour (ERA) arrangement - the boxes on the turret front - is commonly referred to by Western sources as the T-72BM.

It is operated by the Russian Army in large numbers, but crucially it is not known to have been exported or operated outside of Russia.

According to the IISS, the presence of this variant in Ukraine therefore strongly supports the contention that Russia is supplying arms to separatist forces.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28961080

And Nato has more evidence:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27849437

 

[maxparrish]

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-russia-new-front-20140827-story.html

Russian armored vehicles thundered into southern Ukraine and unleashed an offensive against the strategic town of Novoazovsk as the 5-month-old separatist battle opened a new front, officials in Kiev said Wednesday.

Novoazovsk lies a few miles west of the border with Russia on a road that leads to Mariupol, a vital Ukrainian shipping terminus on the Sea of Azov. From there, the road eventually connects with the Russian military installations on the Crimean peninsula, which Russia invaded in February and annexed a month later.

Putin's plan

The seaside corridor would also provide Russia and its eastern Ukrainian proxies control of the oil and gas fields that Russian energy giant Gazprom operates in the Sea of Azov, as well as military hardware production in the Zaporizhia region and food grown and processed in Kherson, the Ukrainian mainland’s gateway to Crimea.

“The city of Novoazovsk is under fire from both Russia and occupied spots on Ukrainian territory,” Col. Andriy Lysenko of Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council told journalists at his daily briefing in Kiev, the Ukrainian capital.

Good gosh, will somebody get those guys a pocket GPS? They are always getting lost!

 

[Tom Sawyer]

In Soviet Russia, borders cross you!

 

[barbos]

You can laugh all you want but technically there is no marked border there.

You can make excuses all you want, but the fact is that your pal Putin is engaged in the process of wiping Ukraine off the map, and you're cheering him on.

He is not my pal, and you are being lied to by western media, that's a fact.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-russia-new-front-20140827-story.html

Russian armored vehicles thundered into southern Ukraine and unleashed an offensive against the strategic town of Novoazovsk as the 5-month-old separatist battle opened a new front, officials in Kiev said Wednesday.

Novoazovsk lies a few miles west of the border with Russia on a road that leads to Mariupol, a vital Ukrainian shipping terminus on the Sea of Azov. From there, the road eventually connects with the Russian military installations on the Crimean peninsula, which Russia invaded in February and annexed a month later.

Putin's plan

The seaside corridor would also provide Russia and its eastern Ukrainian proxies control of the oil and gas fields that Russian energy giant Gazprom operates in the Sea of Azov, as well as military hardware production in the Zaporizhia region and food grown and processed in Kherson, the Ukrainian mainland’s gateway to Crimea.

“The city of Novoazovsk is under fire from both Russia and occupied spots on Ukrainian territory,” Col. Andriy Lysenko of Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council told journalists at his daily briefing in Kiev, the Ukrainian capital.

Good gosh, will somebody get those guys a pocket GPS? They are always getting lost!

LOL, LA times, this is hilarious. The same paper which saw russian snipers in Odessa.

 

[barbos]

The mixed convoy includes at least three T-72B1 Main Battle Tanks (MBTs) but it is the appearance of a lone, more modern T-72 variant (shown below) that is of particular significance. his variant, distinguished by the prominent Kontakt-5 Explosive Reactive Armour (ERA) arrangement - the boxes on the turret front - is commonly referred to by Western sources as the T-72BM.

It is operated by the Russian Army in large numbers, but crucially it is not known to have been exported or operated outside of Russia.

According to the IISS, the presence of this variant in Ukraine therefore strongly supports the contention that Russia is supplying arms to separatist forces.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28961080

And Nato has more evidence:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27849437

[/facepalm]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kontakt-5

Introduced on the T-80U tank in 1985, Kontakt-5 is made up of "bricks"
.....

Kontakt-5 armour is employed by Russia, Ukraine and Serbia (on M-84AS MBT), among others.

Soviet Union disintegrated in 1991.
So, take T-72, and put Kontakt-5 on it, done!

 

[Ford]

He is not my pal, and you are being lied to by western media, that's a fact.

You never disagreed with him or any of his goals.

You've also supported every single thing he's ever done.

You have never questioned or criticized anything Putin has done.

You are his pal.

You are of course free to prove me wrong.



I look forward to the "times Barbos has criticized Putin" posts.




I'll wait...

 

[lpetrich]

This reminds me of the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba. It was a CIA-supported effort to unseat Fidel Castro's regime by arming and training some Cuban refugees and then sending them. However, the invaders' sponsors wanted to make it seem like the invaders were Cuban patriots acting on their own without any support from the Yanqui gringo imperialists. The invasion attempt failed, and JFK had the decency to own up to it.

What's happening now has a lot of parallels. Russia's leaders have been claiming that they have nothing to do with the pro-Russian rebellions in Ukraine, that the rebels are all ethnic Russians who want to get out from under the thumb of their Ukrainian masters and join the Russian motherland. But those rebellions are as Russkie-free as the Bay of Pigs invaders were gringo-free, which is to say, not at all, despite what their sponsors had wanted us to believe.

 

[maxparrish]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28961080

And Nato has more evidence:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27849437

[/facepalm]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kontakt-5

Introduced on the T-80U tank in 1985, Kontakt-5 is made up of "bricks"
.....

Kontakt-5 armour is employed by Russia, Ukraine and Serbia (on M-84AS MBT), among others.

Soviet Union disintegrated in 1991.
So, take T-72, and put Kontakt-5 on it, done!

Well then we have the opinion of the IISS analyst who has identified as a Russian 72BM, and your assurance that it was misidentified. Think I will accept the expert's opinion.

 

[maxparrish]

Good point. They even provided the Cuban refugees with old WWII bombers.

 

[maxparrish]

And yet more:

NATO diplomat has revealed a new Russian missile defence system has been detected in a rebel-held area of Ukraine, after a huge convoy of tanks and weaponry came through the nation’s southeast.
The NATO diplomat also told AFP on condition of anonymity that the SA-22 air defence system, which has a range of up to 20 kilometres, was “now in the zone”, adding that Russian support for the rebels had become “more open” recently.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said the Kremlin was “not interested in breaking up” Ukraine, but said Russia will send more aid convoys to Ukraine “in the nearest future”, despite complaints from Kiev they breach its sovereignty.
The news of the missile system comes after Ukraine appealed for NATO’s help after a huge convoy of tanks and weaponry from Russia arrived.

It’s the latest blatant move by an increasingly bold Russia after weeks of mounting evidence it is directly involved in Ukraine’s civil war.
Unmarked Russian military hardware, the social media posts of Russian soldiers — even funerals for Russian soldiers — are just part of the growing tide of evidence of Russia’s direct intervention.

Putin grows bolder by the day. Looks like the Ukraine is toast.

Associated Press journalists on the Ukrainian border with Russia have seen the rebels with a wide range of unmarked military equipment — including tanks, Buk missile launchers and armoured personnel carriers — and have run into many Russians among the rebel fighters.

http://www.news.com.au/world/ukrain...hrough-southeast/story-fndir2ev-1227039388911

 

[maxparrish]

Vox (links in original story):

In July, in the weeks before boneheaded rebels shot down a civilian airliner and killed 298 people, Russia began shipping them high-grade military technology, including surface-to-air missile systems. Shortly after the airliner shoot-down, Russian artillery in Russia began firing at Ukrainian military forces in Ukraine — an overt act of war. Then NATO said it caught Russia sending an "incursion" force across the border, which Ukraine claimed to destroy. Later, according to the rebel leader in Ukraine, 30 Russian tanks and up to 1,200 Russian-trained troops did manage to cross. By August 22nd, Russian artillery units were reportedly crossing the border into Ukraine, and a few days later, Ukraine captured "rebels" who admitted to being Russian soldiers sent under formal order.

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/27/6069415/lets-be-clear-about-this-russia-is-invading-ukraine-right-now

 

[barbos]

He is not my pal, and you are being lied to by western media, that's a fact.

You never disagreed with him or any of his goals.

You've also supported every single thing he's ever done.

You have never questioned or criticized anything Putin has done.

You are his pal.

You are of course free to prove me wrong.



I look forward to the "times Barbos has criticized Putin" posts.




I'll wait...

I am on record disagreeing with Putin running for president again.
But now I think I understand why he did that.