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Subsidy

(c) Fast was made to pay $75 so that other people could be connected to city water; the city water was not connected to his house. What was swapped to him for that $75?

Advantage: I and my fellow community members get better quality water when we eat at same county restaurants.
Disadvantage: I have to pay $75 for that advantage.

A benefit or harm?: the increase in standard of living in the community outweighs the collective cost; in other words, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages; therefore, despite the disadvantages, I am benefitting, not being harmed.

Now, does the mere fact that I am benefitting therefore justify being subjected to the disadvantages? See, I don't quite get how a cost benefit analysis that reflects positively on my and my community members standard of living necessarily justifies the infliction of benefit on others.

Fictional:
I had $2 in my pocket for a pound bag of $2 sugar. The clerk said, you can save money by getting a second pound bag for $1 more. I said I'll stick with one bag. She said that's more expensive. I said let me go with the more expensive option because I can't afford to save money right now. <should of seen her look>

I'm sure somehow, someway, someone will find a rationale to show how the advantages outweigh the disadvantages leading to a conclusion that I'm benefitting and thus not being harmed, but the analysis alone seems deficient in it's purpose if it's somehow suppose to imply justification. It kind of reminds me of a discussion long ago (with a member that has since passed) about how we shouldn't fault an inductive argument when it's purpose isn't to do what a deductive argument does. If the assumptions are correct such that a) the advantages outweigh the disadvantages and b) that being so implies benefit exceeds cost, I'm afraid the tool at my disposal (cost/benefit analysis) doesn't imply a failure to show justification, with the key word being, "failure". That it doesn't do something isn't to say it's failing in some way. It can't be a failure when it's purpose is disassociated. It's not a failure of a calculator that I can't successfully use it to till a garden.

I think there's something in the air that others might be inclined to suggest that I don't agree with. Yes, I am (at least in some stretch of the imagination) benefitting from my $75 contribution, and yes, quality of life and standard of living has in some way increased for me and those in my community (an assumption I'm willing to concede for sake of argument), and I'm even willing to accept that perhaps the cost benefit analysis does reflect the costs as being low for the benefits received, and I'll step even further out on the ledge and say diminishing returns are factored in. Assuming that there is a disconnect between the analysis and an implication for justification, how in the world do we justify subjecting people to these fees? Should I make that assumption?
 
(c) Fast was made to pay $75 so that other people could be connected to city water; the city water was not connected to his house. What was swapped to him for that $75?

Advantage: I and my fellow community members get better quality water when we eat at same county restaurants.
Disadvantage: I have to pay $75 for that advantage.

A benefit or harm?: the increase in standard of living in the community outweighs the collective cost; in other words, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages; therefore, despite the disadvantages, I am benefitting, not being harmed.

Now, does the mere fact that I am benefitting therefore justify being subjected to the disadvantages? See, I don't quite get how a cost benefit analysis that reflects positively on my and my community members standard of living necessarily justifies the infliction of benefit on others.

Fictional:
I had $2 in my pocket for a pound bag of $2 sugar. The clerk said, you can save money by getting a second pound bag for $1 more. I said I'll stick with one bag. She said that's more expensive. I said let me go with the more expensive option because I can't afford to save money right now. <should of seen her look>

I'm sure somehow, someway, someone will find a rationale to show how the advantages outweigh the disadvantages leading to a conclusion that I'm benefitting and thus not being harmed, but the analysis alone seems deficient in it's purpose if it's somehow suppose to imply justification. It kind of reminds me of a discussion long ago (with a member that has since passed) about how we shouldn't fault an inductive argument when it's purpose isn't to do what a deductive argument does. If the assumptions are correct such that a) the advantages outweigh the disadvantages and b) that being so implies benefit exceeds cost, I'm afraid the tool at my disposal (cost/benefit analysis) doesn't imply a failure to show justification, with the key word being, "failure". That it doesn't do something isn't to say it's failing in some way. It can't be a failure when it's purpose is disassociated. It's not a failure of a calculator that I can't successfully use it to till a garden.

I think there's something in the air that others might be inclined to suggest that I don't agree with. Yes, I am (at least in some stretch of the imagination) benefitting from my $75 contribution, and yes, quality of life and standard of living has in some way increased for me and those in my community (an assumption I'm willing to concede for sake of argument), and I'm even willing to accept that perhaps the cost benefit analysis does reflect the costs as being low for the benefits received, and I'll step even further out on the ledge and say diminishing returns are factored in. Assuming that there is a disconnect between the analysis and an implication for justification, how in the world do we justify subjecting people to these fees? Should I make that assumption?

Your fictional story reflects my reality. I am selling a house. In its current condition it is worth 250k. With a $40,000 investment it would sell for 325k, but I don't have the free cash to spend to nearly double my profit.
 
Assuming that there is a disconnect between the analysis and an implication for justification, how in the world do we justify subjecting people to these fees? Should I make that assumption?

Well.. what would the community look like if such fees were banned. Not just this particular example, but all such fees? Would the difference be enough to justify them?
 
Assuming that there is a disconnect between the analysis and an implication for justification, how in the world do we justify subjecting people to these fees? Should I make that assumption?

Well.. what would the community look like if such fees were banned. Not just this particular example, but all such fees? Would the difference be enough to justify them?

If I knew how much of which elixir to combine to the justification potion, I might be able to answer that. The cost benefit analysis may just be an objective guide to help assist in detangling only some of the messiness that comes with the subjective aspects of evaluating whether an action is justified. It moves the bar of common sense but doesn't eliminate the need for using some.
 
(c) Fast was made to pay $75 so that other people could be connected to city water; the city water was not connected to his house. What was swapped to him for that $75?

Advantage: I and my fellow community members get better quality water when we eat at same county restaurants.
Disadvantage: I have to pay $75 for that advantage.

A benefit or harm?: the increase in standard of living in the community outweighs the collective cost; in other words, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages; therefore, despite the disadvantages, I am benefitting, not being harmed.

Now, does the mere fact that I am benefitting therefore justify being subjected to the disadvantages? See, I don't quite get how a cost benefit analysis that reflects positively on my and my community members standard of living necessarily justifies the infliction of benefit on others.
Not sure how to interpret that. Do you mean the change improves your own experience in the restaurants by $75 worth, or do you only mean that adding up everyone's experience improvement comes to more than adding up everyone's increased payment? If you mean the latter, then it doesn't follow that therefore you're benefitting, not being harmed. Rather, you're benefitting AND being harmed; and whether that's a net benefit or a net harm to you personally depends on how much joy you take in other people's pleasure.

I'm sure somehow, someway, someone will find a rationale to show how the advantages outweigh the disadvantages leading to a conclusion that I'm benefitting and thus not being harmed, but the analysis alone seems deficient in it's purpose if it's somehow suppose to imply justification.
That's an excellent point; it brings to mind an exchange I heard the other day. NPR was interviewing some guy from an outfit agitating for laws requiring bicyclists to wear helmets. He quoted a CDC study showing head injury and death rates in bicycle accidents had fallen X% in states that required children to wear helmets and he said if adults had to wear helmets too then they'd get the safety benefit too. The interviewer asked him whether adults should be free to decide that for themselves. The guy responded that his organization was familiar with this counterargument, that from the get-go they were expecting to hear it, and they understood that libertarians would certainly object to their proposal. And then he just moved on! He made no attempt at all to come to grips with it.
 
Assuming that there is a disconnect between the analysis and an implication for justification, how in the world do we justify subjecting people to these fees? Should I make that assumption?

Well.. what would the community look like if such fees were banned. Not just this particular example, but all such fees? Would the difference be enough to justify them?
It's not clear that that's a relevant consideration. Suppose there are three such fees. Suppose that the community would look pretty much the same without the third fee except that people who bought houses on the periphery would have to make their own arrangements to get water. Suppose the community would look like a Dickens novel without the second fee. Suppose the community would look like ISIS-controlled Syria without the first fee and every single member of the community would be beheaded or enslaved, except for one ISIS sympathizer who'll be invited to join the new regime and become the community's Virtue Policeman/Jizya collector. I think we can all agree that that difference in the rest of the people's fates is enough to justify making the ISIS sympathizer pay a fair share of the community's ISIS-exclusion budget. But why should the merits or demerits of conquest by ISIS be the criterion used to evaluate an assessment to connect a subset of the community to city water?
 
Everyone who gets a subsidy (in my experience) says I have a right to it. It's those others (welfare niggers in the ghetto, rich farmers on the plains, illegal immigrants, dumb crackers in the trailer parks,) who are stealing from the public.

Eldarion Lathria
 
Everyone who gets a subsidy (in my experience) says I have a right to it. It's those others (welfare niggers in the ghetto, rich farmers on the plains, illegal immigrants, dumb crackers in the trailer parks,) who are stealing from the public.

Eldarion Lathria
if it's legal, it's not stealing.
 
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