Successful teen pregnancy prevention program in danger

[Underseer]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...gnancy-prevention-program-in-U-S-is-in-danger

Not just a successful program, the most successful program.

We as a nation spend billions on "abstinence only" education programs that have been shown to not work. Here we have one much cheaper program that works spectacularly to reduce unwanted teen pregnancy, so of course Republicans want to block it on moral grounds.

What exactly do they think would be more moral about having more unwanted teen pregnancies?

 

[SimpleDon]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...gnancy-prevention-program-in-U-S-is-in-danger

Not just a successful program, the most successful program.

We as a nation spend billions on "abstinence only" education programs that have been shown to not work. Here we have one much cheaper program that works spectacularly to reduce unwanted teen pregnancy, so of course Republicans want to block it on moral grounds.

What exactly do they think would be more moral about having more unwanted teen pregnancies?

The anti-abortion people aren't really trying to reduce abortions, they are trying to make abortions illegal so that they can be right with their non-existent god. Inexpensive, widely available, long term contraception is the only way to reduce the number of abortions.

The anti-abortion people are really anti-conception and anti-sex. They don't understand something that they can't do well. Like skiing.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...gnancy-prevention-program-in-U-S-is-in-danger

Not just a successful program, the most successful program.

We as a nation spend billions on "abstinence only" education programs that have been shown to not work. Here we have one much cheaper program that works spectacularly to reduce unwanted teen pregnancy, so of course Republicans want to block it on moral grounds.

What exactly do they think would be more moral about having more unwanted teen pregnancies?

The anti-abortion people aren't really trying to reduce abortions, they are trying to make abortions illegal so that they can be right with their non-existent god. Inexpensive, widely available, long term contraception is the only way to reduce the number of abortions.

The anti-abortion people are really anti-conception and anti-sex. They don't understand something that they can't do well. Like skiing.

1) This article is old news. I posted about it some time back.

2) You're wrong about their objectives. What they are really trying to do is make non-reproductive sex dangerous so people will only have God-ordained reproductive sex, not sex for fun.

 

[Toni]

The anti-abortion people aren't really trying to reduce abortions, they are trying to make abortions illegal so that they can be right with their non-existent god. Inexpensive, widely available, long term contraception is the only way to reduce the number of abortions.

The anti-abortion people are really anti-conception and anti-sex. They don't understand something that they can't do well. Like skiing.

1) This article is old news. I posted about it some time back.

2) You're wrong about their objectives. What they are really trying to do is make non-reproductive sex dangerous so people will only have God-ordained reproductive sex, not sex for fun.

Depends entirely upon the denomination. And there is a lot of variation within denominations, too. For example, most Catholics I know have small families. There are some divorces, including at least one multiple divorce and one abortion that I know of.

 

[J842P]

I think the majority of people who disagree with abortion do so based on the sincere belief that performing an abortion is the equivalent to killing a neonate. It's an understandable position, and ethically, I would have to agree when considering a fetus in the later stages of development.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I think the majority of people who disagree with abortion do so based on the sincere belief that performing an abortion is the equivalent to killing a neonate. It's an understandable position, and ethically, I would have to agree when considering a fetus in the later stages of development.

But, once it comes out of the woman, the thing can just fuck off and die.

 

[prideandfall]

I think the majority of people who disagree with abortion do so based on the sincere belief that performing an abortion is the equivalent to killing a neonate. It's an understandable position, and ethically, I would have to agree when considering a fetus in the later stages of development.

i completely disagree with this - it's clear and observable fact that the majority of people who disagree with abortion do so because they are anti-woman, anti-sex, and consider pregnancy a form of punishment that whores should suffer for having the audacity to have sex.

 

[thebeave]

I think the majority of people who disagree with abortion do so based on the sincere belief that performing an abortion is the equivalent to killing a neonate. It's an understandable position, and ethically, I would have to agree when considering a fetus in the later stages of development.

i completely disagree with this - it's clear and observable fact that the majority of people who disagree with abortion do so because they are anti-woman, anti-sex, and consider pregnancy a form of punishment that whores should suffer for having the audacity to have sex.

Er.... around 40 to 50% of women in the US are pro-life, last I heard. So, there's millions of women out there who are "anti-women, anti-sex, etc"? Sounds a little strange to me, but if you say so.

 

[skepticalbip]

I think the majority of people who disagree with abortion do so based on the sincere belief that performing an abortion is the equivalent to killing a neonate. It's an understandable position, and ethically, I would have to agree when considering a fetus in the later stages of development.

i completely disagree with this - it's clear and observable fact that the majority of people who disagree with abortion do so because they are anti-woman, anti-sex, and consider pregnancy a form of punishment that whores should suffer for having the audacity to have sex.

Prone to a little hyperbole are you?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

i completely disagree with this - it's clear and observable fact that the majority of people who disagree with abortion do so because they are anti-woman, anti-sex, and consider pregnancy a form of punishment that whores should suffer for having the audacity to have sex.

Prone to a little hyperbole are you?

Not from around here are you? What is one of the main arguments against abortion? To paraphrase, 'You did the crime, you do the time.' Yes, 9 months of labor, birth, and 18 years of raising a baby/child/teen... for having sex once.

In America, the argument against abortion has been twisted and visualized by a small minority of people. Sociology shows that opinions are more based on an initial perception from the question, not what people actually feel. And it doesn't stop at abortion. These people want to get rid of all forms of abortions. Remember the Hobby Lobby case. They wanted an exemption for a drug that didn't even do what they said it did, based on religious grounds.

One must also remember the good ole days. Griswold v Connecticut happened for a reason. And that was dealing with the most basic of birth control. The pro-birth group don't want to overturn Roe v Wade, they want to overturn Griswold v Connecticut.

 

[SimpleDon]

The anti-abortion people aren't really trying to reduce abortions, they are trying to make abortions illegal so that they can be right with their non-existent god. Inexpensive, widely available, long term contraception is the only way to reduce the number of abortions.

The anti-abortion people are really anti-conception and anti-sex. They don't understand something that they can't do well. Like skiing.

1) This article is old news. I posted about it some time back.

2) You're wrong about their objectives. What they are really trying to do is make non-reproductive sex dangerous so people will only have God-ordained reproductive sex, not sex for fun.

Absolutely correct.

 

[SimpleDon]

Prone to a little hyperbole are you?

Not from around here are you? What is one of the main arguments against abortion? To paraphrase, 'You did the crime, you do the time.' Yes, 9 months of labor, birth, and 18 years of raising a baby/child/teen... for having sex once.

In America, the argument against abortion has been twisted and visualized by a small minority of people. Sociology shows that opinions are more based on an initial perception from the question, not what people actually feel. And it doesn't stop at abortion. These people want to get rid of all forms of abortions. Remember the Hobby Lobby case. They wanted an exemption for a drug that didn't even do what they said it did, based on religious grounds.

One must also remember the good ole days. Griswold v Connecticut happened for a reason. And that was dealing with the most basic of birth control. The pro-birth group don't want to overturn Roe v Wade, they want to overturn Griswold v Connecticut.

And don't forget that the anti-conception, anti-sex and anti-abortion people are being supported in their endeavors by the anti-poor, anti-middle class and pro-rich faction because they will vote against their own economic self-interest if someone pretends that their bizarre, driving opinions and positions have any validity at all. Just like the racists, the libertarians, the xenophobes, the homophobes, the fanatical religious, and the gun nuts. We use to be able to quite correctly ignore these fringe, unfortunate people who were too embarrassed to even voice their combination of hate and crazy. But the rich have given them a place in the political forum and therefore, at least in the eyes of the crazy themselves, some validity for their craziness.

No Republican can now be elected without bowing to the hate and the crazy. In the first twenty years or so the hateful and the crazy were just happy to have someone just listen to their hate and their crazy. The Republicans who were elected could safely ignore the hate and the crazy once they were in office. But then the inevitable happened, the hateful and the crazy became impatient for the hate and the crazy to be implemented into law and government policies. This impatience found a new generation of Republican politicians who actually believed that the hatred and the crazy constituted a solid base of principles with which to govern, not just a way to further enrich the already rich at the cost of the poor and the middle class. Although, of course, enriching the already rich at the cost of the poor and the middle class is one of the foundation crazy of the Republican party still.

 

[prideandfall]

i completely disagree with this - it's clear and observable fact that the majority of people who disagree with abortion do so because they are anti-woman, anti-sex, and consider pregnancy a form of punishment that whores should suffer for having the audacity to have sex.

Prone to a little hyperbole are you?

i don't think so at all - as i said, it's clear and observable fact that this is the true intent and viewpoint of the majority of forced-birthers.
you're welcome to disagree with that if you want to, but it's simply making an observation.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think the majority of people who disagree with abortion do so based on the sincere belief that performing an abortion is the equivalent to killing a neonate. It's an understandable position, and ethically, I would have to agree when considering a fetus in the later stages of development.

No, because the vast majority accept abortion in case of rape & incest.

Virtually all of these eventually will admit to a punishment aspect to their motivations.

 

[skepticalbip]

Prone to a little hyperbole are you?

i don't think so at all - as i said, it's clear and observable fact that this is the true intent and viewpoint of the majority of forced-birthers.
you're welcome to disagree with that if you want to, but it's simply making an observation.

You apparently live a fairly isolated life. I know quite a few Catholics (and others) who honestly see abortion as murder. Personally I don't have any problem with abortion in the first trimester just because the mother doesn't want a child. However abortion in the third trimester when the child can live independently of the mother is a problem for me especially late in the third trimester (exception being to save the mother's life). I see little difference in a baby one day before birth and a baby one minute after birth when they have more legal protection from harm than adults do.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

i completely disagree with this - it's clear and observable fact that the majority of people who disagree with abortion do so because they are anti-woman, anti-sex, and consider pregnancy a form of punishment that whores should suffer for having the audacity to have sex.

Prone to a little hyperbole are you?

I think there's a lot of truth to his assertion.

If they were having proper sex (married) they wouldn't need to resort to abortion in case of pregnancy. Never mind the substantial number of anti-abortion protesters who show up in the very clinics they are protesting!

 

[prideandfall]

You apparently live a fairly isolated life.

somebody recently said something kind of disdainful and dismissive about hyperbole... can't quite remember who it was though.

I know quite a few Catholics (and others) who honestly see abortion as murder.

i know quite a few middle aged white people who are into BDSM... by your logic, every middle aged white person is into BDSM.
you can list every catholic you personally know, it won't change the fact that my original assertion was that the *majority* of forced-birthers are anti-woman and anti-sex.
i'd be perfectly comfortable further asserting that even those legions of catholics you know (which i bet could number as high as the double digits!) will make their arguments about anti-sex and anti-woman stances regardless of whether or not they could theoretically argue from a position of being functionally retarded on basic biology.
also, those same catholics are equally opposed to contraception and gays, which spoiler alert are the two biggest ways to have sex while avoiding ever needing to have an abortion.

Personally I don't have any problem with abortion in the first trimester just because the mother doesn't want a child. However abortion in the third trimester when the child can live independently of the mother is a problem for me especially late in the third trimester (exception being to save the mother's life). I see little difference in a baby one day before birth and a baby one minute after birth when they have more legal protection from harm than adults do.

okay, bully for you?
i don't have a problem with abortion in the first trimester either, i only start to wonder if there might be a moral question about it in the 26th or 27th trimester or so.