Suicide machines?

[steve_bank]

Self destruction feels good for a while. That is the problem.

Went through drugs in the 70s, drank som,etimes a binge drinker, never used tobacco. My own experience plus what I see of many of the people I currently live with.

Off topic, I believe now when you are truly healthy and feel good alcohols and drugs eat away at it. We are free to choose our own poison and our own road to hell so to speak..

Right now if I drink I will not feel as good as I do now. Went through repeated cycles.

Tobacco and alcohol kill, not as fast as opioids.



From a spiritual perspective acrossm many traditions there is a feel good state that trumps all others.

 

[ronburgundy]

Self destruction feels good for a while. That is the problem.

Leaving your house to enjoy anything is also something that feels good but increases your odds of harm to your person.
By your broad use of the concept, doing anything for joy that comes with some risk (aka, living) is self destruction.
Is driving to your friends house (risking and accident), and having a burger at his BBQ (risking heart disease) to enjoy his company and be there to celebrate his engagement and act of "suicidal self-destruction"? IF not, then it's invalid to claim drinking is outside a person with an uncontrollable addictive compulsion.

Right now if I drink I will not feel as good as I do now.

Great, but that is not true for many drinkers. "Feeling good" is inherently variable over time. If I drink, I usually experience an increase in pleasure, only sometimes followed by a increase in unpleasantness, but at end of that cycle I am happier I did it than if I had not and just maintained the same level of pleasure over that period. And even later, I have the added pleasure of memories of various experiences that alcohol was a causal factor in. The long term impacts on my health are part of a tomorrow that may never come and even if it does is likely to be more impacted by other factors than drinking or anything I can control from my genes, to infinite random events. It's a matter of where you want to place your bets, on healthier later years that may not come anyway or pleasure today that you can increase with risky actions, but in the end everyone loses.

Tobacco and alcohol kill, not as fast as opioids.

An infinite number of things kill and most of them you have no control over, and those are the ones most likely to do you in.

Living to optimize your health in some largely uncertain future is your choice, but others live for the now, which is certainly no less (and arguably more) an act of embracing one's life than your approach, and not an act of suicide or self destruction, any more than it is to drive to the beach to enjoy a sunset and increase your risk of getting in an accident.

 

[steve_bank]

Whatever floats yoou boat, the beauty of our liberal democracy. We are entirely free to live as we choose, even if it o
is self destructive to up to the point of immediate harm.

Oxy has become a crisis because it brings death and deterioration quickly. Same with heroin and coke. Deemed too self destructive home illegal.

Alcohol and tobacco and bad diet takes decades to manifest. Hence they are legal.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Why would philosophical bodily autonomy arguments apply to suicide euthanasia but not selling (or renting) your body parts? Why would I have the right to die (sooner) if I'm terminally ill but not have the right to do so when I'm healthy and free from the stress and guilt of being a financial burden to all those social justice warriors pleading for my right to "die with dignity".

Thank you for once again perfectly demonstrating why cults are so insidious and detrimental to humanity. I sincerely hope your death takes several years in a forgotten and run-down "home" and you experience nothing but agonizing pain that becomes a severe and devastating emotional and financial burden on your loved ones who will be forced to watch you deteriorate year after year after year into abuse-laden dementia until your brain is finally gone and you are reduced to little more than a machine-driven pulsating meat sack of pain and suffering. And then five years later you finally die. Praise the Lord! Amen!

Someone (who shall remain nameless) gave me neg rep for this post—saying I was “better than that”—which is interesting, because I am literally right now sitting in a hospice room with my dying mother-in-law in West Virginia and have had to deal with all manner of bible thumpers insisting—to her daughters—that they have “given up on her and Jesus” because they told the nurses what her wishes were (no forced measures). In HOSPICE. So my wife and her sister—who of course won’t leave their already brain-dead mother’s side (she has been breathing only once a minute for two fucking days now) are being further tortured by asshole cult members who say idiotic things like, “She still has some things to do and just isn’t ready to go yet, but she can hear you.”

So for the past five days—24 hours a day (with maybe, maybe two or three hours a night in shifts) my wife and her sister have literally been holding their dead mother’s hand staring at every breath praying it’s her last and telling their brain dead mother to “move on, it’s ok, just move on, why won’t you move on” etc.

One nurse actually said, “Her spirit won’t move on until she breathes her last breath.” It took ALL of my remaining energy—after having stayed up for 72 hours with my wife and her sister—from killing that bitch where she stood.

It’s been a non-stop living torture for them to be under this much stress convinced that their mother is “still there” clinging to life fearing that she’s worrying about them and won’t let them go and what issues she hasn’t resolved yet (they each think it’s with them, of course) and the like and ALL because of some fucktard bible thumper cult members and their assinine beliefs.

 

[poster]

Why would philosophical bodily autonomy arguments apply to suicide euthanasia but not selling (or renting) your body parts? Why would I have the right to die (sooner) if I'm terminally ill but not have the right to do so when I'm healthy and free from the stress and guilt of being a financial burden to all those social justice warriors pleading for my right to "die with dignity".

Thank you for once again perfectly demonstrating why cults are so insidious and detrimental to humanity. I sincerely hope your death takes several years in a forgotten and run-down "home" and you experience nothing but agonizing pain that becomes a severe and devastating emotional and financial burden on your loved ones who will be forced to watch you deteriorate year after year after year into abuse-laden dementia until your brain is finally gone and you are reduced to little more than a machine-driven pulsating meat sack of pain and suffering. And then five years later you finally die. Praise the Lord! Amen!

Someone (who shall remain nameless) gave me neg rep for this post—saying I was “better than that”—which is interesting, because I am literally right now sitting in a hospice room with my dying mother-in-law in West Virginia and have had to deal with all manner of bible thumpers insisting—to her daughters—that they have “given up on her and Jesus” because they told the nurses what her wishes were (no forced measures). In HOSPICE. So my wife and her sister—who of course won’t leave their already brain-dead mother’s side for the past five days now (she breathes once a minute for two fucking days now—are being further tortured by asshole cult members who say idiotic things like, “She still has some things to do and just isn’t ready to go yet.”

So for the past five days—24 hours a day (with maybe, maybe two or three hours a night in shifts) my wife and her sister have literally been holding their dead mother’s hand staring at every breath praying it’s her last and telling their brain dead mother to “move on, it’s ok, just move on, why won’t you move on” etc.

One nurse actually said, “Her spirit won’t move on until she breathes her last breath.” It took ALL of my remaining energy—after having stayed up for 72 hours with my wife and her sister—from killing that bitch where she stood.

It’s been a non-stop living torture for them to be under this much stress convinced that their mother is “still there” clinging to life fearing that she’s worrying about them and won’t let them go and the like and ALL because of some fucktard bible thumper cult members and their assinine beliefs.

I'm sorry you all have to go through that. I hope it ends soon for you.

The rep piont system is silly. Do they actually mean something? Mine were going up and down daily for a while. I just give them back as I receive them. Childish.

 

[Lion IRC]

I have never given a negative rep point to anyone at TFF
Not even for something as disgraceful as this;

"...I sincerely hope your death takes several years in a forgotten and run-down "home" and you experience nothing but agonizing pain that becomes a severe and devastating emotional and financial burden on your loved ones who will be forced to watch"

 

[GenesisNemesis]

I have never given a negative rep point to anyone at TFF
Not even for something as disgraceful as this;

"...I sincerely hope your death takes several years in a forgotten and run-down "home" and you experience nothing but agonizing pain that becomes a severe and devastating emotional and financial burden on your loved ones who will be forced to watch"

Yeah, that was too far. Oh wait, you're now going to ask me "why do you care, atheist?"and act like I'm not human.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Oh and you're also going to say I deserve to burn in Hell for eternity for being an atheist. Or that I deserve whatever punishment God decides because I'm an atheist. And also you're going to pretend you've never treated atheists like shit in 3... 2... 1...

 

[Lion IRC]

God doesn't want atheists to burn in hell. See 2 Peter 3:9
As I said to one atheist here at TFF

Hey there,
I've known you on the atheosphere since...for ages.
And I know the blurred line between attacking the idea (atheism) and attacking the person (atheist) is sometimes so virtually invisible that atheists might reasonably think I don't care about the difference. But I do.
So I want to reach out to you one-on-one and implore you not to become so defensive of atheism - whatever that word means to you - that you let my anti-atheism become a source of personal bitterness and a fixation.
I'm not saying it is, and I really hope that it's not how you feel.
But I meant what I said about avoiding AvT discussions in places like this if attacks on atheism make you feel such intense negative emotions.
If your jibes are just casual venting of the spleen, or... in vino veritas like much of the smack talk around here, that's fine.
But every human being is of equal value and my view of atheists is informed by the Gospel of Luke 15:7
I hope you have and/or find peace in your life. And I hope you can embrace the same mindset as me - that no one can make you feel inferior without your consent. (See Eleanor Roosevelt.)
Best regards - Lion IRC

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If you have the so-called 'right' to end your own life then you must also have the equivalent right to sell your own body parts to the highest bidder. Folks who make snuff films might be interested.

So this is the people will marry toasters argument against gay marriage equivalent to allowing to people to end their own lives peacefully.

"Well, if ya allow people who are suffering greatly to end their pain... then you are just going to have to let people be able to sell their organs on eBay! Those people who married toasters will love to be able to get their beloved toasters some internal organs!"

 

[Lion IRC]

If you have the so-called 'right' to end your own life then you must also have the equivalent right to sell your own body parts to the highest bidder. Folks who make snuff films might be interested.

So this is the people will marry toasters argument against gay marriage equivalent to allowing to people to end their own lives peacefully.

"Well, if ya allow people who are suffering greatly to end their pain... then you are just going to have to let people be able to sell their organs on eBay! Those people who married toasters will love to be able to get their beloved toasters some internal organs!"

What's wrong with marrying a toaster?

Why can't people sell their kidneys?
...or their unborn embryos?

 

[Lion IRC]

See, this is the thing that annoys the crap out of me when folks accuse me of making a slippery slope argument.

They never admit that they can't actually find a place to draw a line on the slope. Neither can they offer a rational moral objection to 'marrying toasters'.

They don't have the honesty to agree that one person's slippery slope is another person's libertarian trail blazing for the rights of people to marry whoever they want, to do what they want with their own body, to enjoy their short life with how ever much hedonism they like.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Why not just buy a motorbike? The result is the same. They're fully legal. And your suicide counts as an accident. So loved one's get money.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

See, this is the thing that annoys the crap out of me when folks accuse me of making a slippery slope argument.

They never admit that they can't actually find a place to draw a line on the slope. Neither can they offer a rational moral objection to 'marrying toasters'.

So you are upset that people won't put a pin on your slippery slope... and use that as an argument as to why people should have to live within the restrictions of the religion of your choice.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

See, this is the thing that annoys the crap out of me when folks accuse me of making a slippery slope argument.

They never admit that they can't actually find a place to draw a line on the slope. Neither can they offer a rational moral objection to 'marrying toasters'.

They don't have the honesty to agree that one person's slippery slope is another person's libertarian trail blazing for the rights of people to marry whoever they want, to do what they want with their own body, to enjoy their short life with how ever much hedonism they like.

Well, "marrying" someone implies that they provided consent to be married to you. Since inanimate objects can't provide consent, it's the equivalent of saying that you should be able to sue your toaster for breach of contract because it didn't give you the million dollars it promised you if you could stand on one foot for a full minute in front of it. Being inanimate, it can't actually make that promise so it's not a thing that actually happened. It's the same with marrying the toaster. It's like the Princess Bride says:

Buttercup: I got married. I didn't want to. It all happened so fast.
Westley: It never happened.
Buttercup: What?
Westley: It never happened.
Buttercup: But it did. I was there. This old man said, "Man and wife."
Westley: Did you say, "I do"?
Buttercup: [confused] No. We sort of skipped that part.
Westley: Then you're not married. If you didn't say it, you didn't do it.

A toaster will never say it, therefore it will never do it.

And before you ask, the answer is yes - quotes from The Princess Bride do actually form the foundational basis for Western legal systems. It's why all our governments have the official stance that ROUS's don't actually exist.

 

[Bomb#20]

What's wrong with marrying a toaster?

Nothing wrong with it at all that wouldn't be fixed if the government simply stopped discriminating against people on the basis of marital status. In our future IOT-enabled kitchens, when you get some eleven-year-old to upload an app into your toaster that hijacks its lame-ass-marketing "Your toast is done now, sir." loudspeaker and makes it say "I do.", that won't actually force any of the rest of us treat you and/or the toaster any differently. So why would it be a moral issue?

Why can't people sell their kidneys?

Same reason people can't contract to pay 1200% interest on a loan. Nobody would enter a deal like that except out of desperation. So if a market develops, participants are practically guaranteed to resort to illegal enforcement measures. Ounce of prevention/pound of cure.

...or their unborn embryos?

What's the problem? People already sell their sperm and their ovums and it isn't wrecking civilization. Why anyone would want to buy an already fertilized egg out of somebody's womb instead of just doing in vitro fertilization I don't know, but if that's what floats somebody's boat, why should the rest of us object?

They don't have the honesty to agree that one person's slippery slope is another person's libertarian trail blazing for the rights of people to marry whoever they want, to do what they want with their own body, to enjoy their short life with how ever much hedonism they like.

Well, apart from Loren there aren't any libertarians in the thread. Liberals trail blaze for people's rights too; progressives trail blaze for whichever social engineering they're in the mood for; social democrats trail blaze for their own right to vote out old social arrangements and vote in new ones; and so on and so forth and such like...

 

[Lion IRC]

See, this is the thing that annoys the crap out of me when folks accuse me of making a slippery slope argument.

They never admit that they can't actually find a place to draw a line on the slope. Neither can they offer a rational moral objection to 'marrying toasters'.

They don't have the honesty to agree that one person's slippery slope is another person's libertarian trail blazing for the rights of people to marry whoever they want, to do what they want with their own body, to enjoy their short life with how ever much hedonism they like.

Well, "marrying" someone implies that they provided consent to be married to you. Since inanimate objects can't provide consent, it's the equivalent of saying that you should be able to sue your toaster for breach of contract because....

Who are you to tell me I can't marry my toaster.
You're just trying to impose your Puritan ideas about marriage on me and the toaster I love - she consents to whatever I want to do to her.

Being inanimate, it can't actually make that promise so it's not a thing that actually happened. It's the same with marrying the toaster.

Toaster-phobic hate speech!

It's like the Princess Bride says:

Buttercup: I got married. I didn't want to. It all happened so fast.
Westley: It never happened.
Buttercup: What?
Westley: It never happened.
Buttercup: But it did. I was there. This old man said, "Man and wife."
Westley: Did you say, "I do"?
Buttercup: [confused] No. We sort of skipped that part.
Westley: Then you're not married. If you didn't say it, you didn't do it.

Man and wife. LOL
Remember back in the old days when they used to say "...if anyone has a reason why these two should not be married"?

A toaster will never say it, therefore it will never do it.

I hear pets have difficulty voicing the words "I do"
http://www.marryyourpet.com/

And before you ask, the answer is yes - quotes from The Princess Bride do actually form the foundational basis for Western legal systems. It's why all our governments have the official stance that ROUS's don't actually exist.

 

[steve_bank]

A Christian being annoyed? Probqably is not experiencing the true spirit.

No you can not marry a toaster. Firdt you can't get a marriqage license. Second if you are Christian youwill not find a minister to do the ceremony.

While we may think it odd. us atheists here likely would not presume to tell you what you can or can not do with a toaster. We might causation you to unplug during intimate moments and swimming.

 

[steve_bank]

I have never given a negative rep point to anyone at TFF
Not even for something as disgraceful as this;

"...I sincerely hope your death takes several years in a forgotten and run-down "home" and you experience nothing but agonizing pain that becomes a severe and devastating emotional and financial burden on your loved ones who will be forced to watch"

Ok. How about being labeled as inherently bad and immoral destined for an eternal hell for being atheist?

 

[Bomb#20]

And before you ask, the answer is yes - quotes from The Princess Bride do actually form the foundational basis for Western legal systems. It's why all our governments have the official stance that ROUS's don't actually exist.