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Sweden, Finland, and Ukraine joining NATO?

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Can you say "a puppet of an extremist organization" followed by "a dupe arranging facts to suit his view"?

Great. You've just answered your claim with your opinion filtered evidence wrapped around your straw man claims.

Yes yes. And Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction too. :rolleyes:

Good. Good. You've just justified your status as a whim supporter with that Cheney lead untruth.

Give us more. We don't need it. But, if you're having fun why stop now.
 
Now that we have specific information about the name of the pilot who shot down MH17 where he flew from etc, we won't be hearing more about those reports. The reason is that they support the story that Kiev not the rebels shot down MH17.
Actually, BBC is reporting the story also. Good luck trying to find the opposite view being reported in Russian media though.
 
Now that we have specific information about the name of the pilot who shot down MH17 where he flew from etc, we won't be hearing more about those reports. The reason is that they support the story that Kiev not the rebels shot down MH17.
Actually, BBC is reporting the story also. Good luck trying to find the opposite view being reported in Russian media though.
No they are not. Nowhere in that story (and it would have been an appropriate place) do they mention that one of there own reporters interviewed eyewitnesses who saw Military jets near MH17
 
As I said, while back at the Sweden, Finland, Ukraine plans to join NATO discussion Some flamers in Ukraine would like that to be the topic. There have always been loose cannons like Curtis Le May running loose. The nearest we've come is VP Cheney. We are mending well and haven't succumbed to any of them yet. As we all know sane heads rule in Finland and Sweden. So such as them joining NATO when they are protected by it without needing to join it won't be happening any time soon.
Sweden and Finland aren't protected by NATO. Ukraine situation shows that if you are not a member, you are on your own.

Sweden and Finland are protected by their own defense and foreign policies, demographics, location, and even EU membership more than they are by NATO.
 
Actually, BBC is reporting the story also. Good luck trying to find the opposite view being reported in Russian media though.
No they are not. Nowhere in that story (and it would have been an appropriate place) do they mention that one of there own reporters interviewed eyewitnesses who saw Military jets near MH17
My bad. I meant that they are reporting the story about the "secret witness", which I thought the context of the sentence I was replying to.
 
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The Ukraine will gain more support form the US and NATO during times of stress short of military intervention which should be enough to hold off a third rate economy like Russia generating war with Europe.
Russia isn't trying to start war with Europe, they are wanting to sell gas to Europe. Unfortunately Southstream just got canned, but Russia will now do a deal with Turkey, in addition to the deal they did with China
It's unfortunate for Bulgaria as they will miss out on around $400m Euros per year IIRC.
Anyway with Europe in quite a predicament economically they are going to find out that obeying their masters in the USA is going to cost them too.
Russia wants to trade with Europe.

Move against the United States: Russia advises EU to phase out the TTIP

translated by google said:
Russia has presented a startling proposal to overcome the tensions with the EU: The EU should renounce the free trade agreement with the United States TTIP and enter into a partnership with the newly established Eurasian Economic Union instead. A free trade zone with the neighbors would make more sense than a deal with the US.

America can't allow it's abusive relationship with Europe to end though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard
 
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Actually, BBC is reporting the story also. Good luck trying to find the opposite view being reported in Russian media though.
No they are not. Nowhere in that story (and it would have been an appropriate place) do they mention that one of there own reporters interviewed eyewitnesses who saw Military jets near MH17

Because it wasn't 'one of their own reporters," it was an independent stringer. Try to keep up, willya?

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"Cute" and "you seem to have a problem with the English language," otoh, is most definitely patronizing. Because you earned it.
You earned it too. You can dish it out but you can't take it.

I'm rubber, you're glue.
 
Actually, BBC is reporting the story also. Good luck trying to find the opposite view being reported in Russian media though.
No they are not. Nowhere in that story (and it would have been an appropriate place) do they mention that one of there own reporters interviewed eyewitnesses who saw Military jets near MH17
Wrong again. BBC did repost the video, and it is still up on BBC's Russian language site:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/russian/multimedia/2014/07/140725_mh17_ukraine_investigation.shtml

The report was edited from the original, but the witnesses who say they saw the planes are still included.
 
No they are not. Nowhere in that story (and it would have been an appropriate place) do they mention that one of there own reporters interviewed eyewitnesses who saw Military jets near MH17
Wrong again. BBC did repost the video, and it is still up on BBC's Russian language site:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/russian/multimedia/2014/07/140725_mh17_ukraine_investigation.shtml

The report was edited from the original, but the witnesses who say they saw the planes are still included.

Drat those sneaky western media sources! They're only keeping this information online to trick people into thinking we have a free press.
 
No they are not. Nowhere in that story (and it would have been an appropriate place) do they mention that one of there own reporters interviewed eyewitnesses who saw Military jets near MH17
Wrong again. BBC did repost the video, and it is still up on BBC's Russian language site:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/russian/multimedia/2014/07/140725_mh17_ukraine_investigation.shtml

The report was edited from the original, but the witnesses who say they saw the planes are still included.

The report and the video report were pulled but after this was noticed and people started asking why, BBC were in a bind.

Censorship or error? Internet criticism for BBC removal of MH17 report

As soon as the report was published on the BBC website, it was immediately deleted. “Document is not available”said the page.

The video of Ivshina’s report, released on YouTube, was repeatedly deleted, according to YouTube users.

“Video Deleted YouTube,” read the description.

The deleted page immediately sparked the attention of social media. The report itself wasn’t deleted. The bloggers and twitter users accused the BBC of censorship.

“Why are they [BBC] deleting this video?” wrote one YouTube user. “They [BBC] are standing for democracy and the freedom of speech or those who deleted the video, don’t need truth?”
 
Wrong again. BBC did repost the video, and it is still up on BBC's Russian language site:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/russian/multimedia/2014/07/140725_mh17_ukraine_investigation.shtml

The report was edited from the original, but the witnesses who say they saw the planes are still included.

The report and the video report were pulled but after this was noticed and people started asking why, BBC were in a bind.

Censorship or error? Internet criticism for BBC removal of MH17 report

As soon as the report was published on the BBC website, it was immediately deleted. “Document is not available”said the page.

The video of Ivshina’s report, released on YouTube, was repeatedly deleted, according to YouTube users.

“Video Deleted YouTube,” read the description.

The deleted page immediately sparked the attention of social media. The report itself wasn’t deleted. The bloggers and twitter users accused the BBC of censorship.

“Why are they [BBC] deleting this video?” wrote one YouTube user. “They [BBC] are standing for democracy and the freedom of speech or those who deleted the video, don’t need truth?”

:hysterical:

They left it up on the BBC website, but deleted the ILLEGAL COPY that someone uploaded to YouTube. Oh, those rascally fiends, making the video continuously and freely available on their own website, while denying YouTube any advertising revenue from an ILLEGAL COPY.
 
- - - Updated - - -

The report and the video report were pulled but after this was noticed and people started asking why, BBC were in a bind.

Censorship or error? Internet criticism for BBC removal of MH17 report

As soon as the report was published on the BBC website, it was immediately deleted. “Document is not available”said the page.

The video of Ivshina’s report, released on YouTube, was repeatedly deleted, according to YouTube users.

“Video Deleted YouTube,” read the description.

The deleted page immediately sparked the attention of social media. The report itself wasn’t deleted. The bloggers and twitter users accused the BBC of censorship.

“Why are they [BBC] deleting this video?” wrote one YouTube user. “They [BBC] are standing for democracy and the freedom of speech or those who deleted the video, don’t need truth?”

:hysterical:

They left it up on the BBC website, but deleted the ILLEGAL COPY that someone uploaded to YouTube. Oh, those rascally fiends, making the video continuously and freely available on their own website, while denying YouTube any advertising revenue from an ILLEGAL COPY.
No you still haven't followed.
As soon as the report was published on the BBC website, it was immediately deleted. “Document is not available”said the page.
It was reposted, after people complained that BBC were censoring the news.
 
Wrong again. BBC did repost the video, and it is still up on BBC's Russian language site:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/russian/multimedia/2014/07/140725_mh17_ukraine_investigation.shtml

The report was edited from the original, but the witnesses who say they saw the planes are still included.

The report and the video report were pulled but after this was noticed and people started asking why, BBC were in a bind.
Maybe, or maybe they were just exercising journalistic integrity by subjecting the report to the same review process as everything else before reposting it. Either way, your claim that these reports are being covered up is false.
 
The report and the video report were pulled but after this was noticed and people started asking why, BBC were in a bind.
Maybe, or maybe they were just exercising journalistic integrity by subjecting the report to the same review process as everything else before reposting it. Either way, your claim that these reports are being covered up is false.
Funny, was there been a lot of focus in the USA on the fighter jets at that time? Or didn't they get a mention?
Why weren't the US media focusing on that part of the story?
 
I was listening to the radio soon after this incident occurred, and the BBC had a reporter on the ground (probably an independent stringer) who was talking to the locals about what they saw. According to this reporter, all the locals said they saw a Ukrainian fighter jet flying overhead, then a rocket trail from the ground, followed by the crash of the airliner. The implication was pretty clear: rebels/russians fired a heat-seeking missile at the fighter jet and missed, instead taking down the much higher commercial jet.

Oddly, I have heard no follow-up on this report since that initial interview.

The "local stringers" are all too often basically PR for the side controlling the area.
 
And who is more to blame here?
a) Rebels who were genuinely surprised that civilians passenger airplanes were flying over them
b) Ukrainian millitary who deliberately tried to make rebels to shot passenger airplane with a lot of innocent people
Both sides would be to blame for recklessness. There is no need to assume malice from either side... Even if there was an SU-25 trailing MH17, it does not imply that the intent was to have rebels shoot it down. A more plausible motivation is that by flying close to civilian plane they'd be able to either hide in its shadow or deter rebels from shooting. They wouldn't have used themselves as bait, because there would still be a much higher likelyhood for the Ukrainian plane to be hit.

A Su-25 can't follow a jetliner cruising at altitude.
 
Obviously they are lying because one of their jets shot the plane down.


Still waiting for you to back up this claim.


Because a Ukrainian jet shot the plane down


Since you said it twice, I'll ask again. What is your evidence for this claim?



(of course I know I won't get an answer, just like barbos won't explain Russia's side of the guilt I asked about days ago...I realize I'm dealing with shills. Perhaps paid. Perhaps not. If paid, I hope it ain't in rubles.)
 
Maybe, or maybe they were just exercising journalistic integrity by subjecting the report to the same review process as everything else before reposting it. Either way, your claim that these reports are being covered up is false.
Funny, was there been a lot of focus in the USA on the fighter jets at that time? Or didn't they get a mention?
Why weren't the US media focusing on that part of the story?

Probably because there is no evidence for it, other than the fevered ramblings of moronic conspiracy theorists? :confused2:

Nobody planned or intended to shoot down an airliner.

But the idea that 'enemies' DID, and are therefore dastardly and evil, while 'friends' are lily-white innocents, was too good a propaganda opportunity for either side to miss.

Both sides have therefore spent a huge amount of ink, pixels, and bytes trying to blame their opponents for this mistake.

It was a mistake. The people who shot the airliner down were a bunch of ignorant hicks who had no concept of international aviation even existing, and who, if they had ever thought about commercial aviation at all, imagined that only planes going to or from Ukraine would fly over Ukraine.

As a result, they were trigger-happy, and had no qualms about shooting at any target on their radar screens. Because they were Russian backed rebels, and they assumed that any aircraft in the vicinity had to be Ukrainian military aircraft - or at the very least, Ukrainian aircraft of some type - and therefore legitimate targets.

Both sides of this are ignorant thugs. The Russian speaking side made a grave error which resulted in a tragedy. Those rebels, commanded by Girkin, who made this error, are responsible for the manslaughter of the passengers and crew of MH017.

All the rest of the FUD, conspiracist bullshit and propaganda is just fucking sad, as are those who disseminate this crap as though it was either accurate or important.
 
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