Sweden rejects mandatory vaccinations?

[DrZoidberg]

Me personally, I'm for compulsory vaccinations. Who gives a shit what idiots think about anything? Even idiots benefit from vaccinations, forced or otherwise. Vaccinations are such a no brainer. Anybody against vaccinations is wrong. Why do we have to respect people we're 100% sure are wrong? I vote no.

Nice strawman. You assume that anyone who questions any aspect of vaccination " is against vaccination." And so you continue to completely misunderstand the issue. Lots of people want to vaccinate but want to know if the present ones can be made better, or if the present ones might have unintended consequences. Pfft

??? What possible contradiction could it be? I think it's helpful to understand that Sweden's national health service is tasked with helping the entire Swedish population and do what's best for the most Swedes. Treating all Swedes the same is completely uncontroversial in Sweden. The Swedish health service is given a bunch of money and scientists and medical researchers (not politicians) decide how this money can best improve the health of Swedes. Politics is completely left out of this. Which I think is something which is awesome and cool about Sweden.

Big Pharma have zero leverage and zero pull in Sweden. The medical researchers taking the decisions are leaders in their field and are uncorruptable. For the simple reason that the process is 100% transpararent, and loads of other people want their jobs. If they would screw up they'd be publicly hanged and replaced. There's just no way to get away with corruption here. So it's all legit, and only focused on helping people.

That means that they'll constantly be investigating ways to get more bang for the vaxx-buck. Safety is always weighed against cost. If going a more safer route for vaccinations will lead to more babies dying, heart failures or dead from cancer, they might opt for the less safe method. They always look at the Swedish population as a whole. And use hard data to maximise utility of every penny.

We just don't have the system that USA does. So in Sweden we don't need to worry. The system is built in such a way that, if left alone, it's mere structure will work to benefit me personally. And it's working. Swedes are very healthy, in spite of spending a lot less than Americans.

In the Swedish system your worry, is a non-issue. The Swedish system has plenty of problems. But this ain't it.

 

[bilby]

What persuaded today's anti-vaxxer's parents to vaccinate the people who are now refusing to do the same for their kids was simple -

You would not know. You make up a theory that fits with your biases. You would have no clue whether it is true.

I doubt whether you have even met someone who doesn't vaccinate , have you? You just make it up. You just sit on your computer all day and night ( I mean you post here all day and night) and judge people who do have children.

Of course I know people who don't vaccinate.

I don't respect their stupid and harmful decisions, but that's family for you - can't live with them, can't throw them out.

I certainly don't judge people who have children. But I don't hold back from judging those who don't seem to care if they keep them.

And I do sleep occasionally. Not that my insomnia is any of your business. I don't lose sleep over it.

 

[DrZoidberg]

You would not know. You make up a theory that fits with your biases. You would have no clue whether it is true.

I doubt whether you have even met someone who doesn't vaccinate , have you? You just make it up. You just sit on your computer all day and night ( I mean you post here all day and night) and judge people who do have children.

Of course I know people who don't vaccinate.

I don't respect their stupid and harmful decisions, but that's family for you - can't live with them, can't throw them out.

I certainly don't judge people who have children. But I don't hold back from judging those who don't seem to care if they keep them.

And I do sleep occasionally. Not that my insomnia is any of your business. I don't lose sleep over it.

What possible information could be gleaned from people who don't vaccinate that can't be collected from the data? We know that people who don't vaccinate have zero relevant arguments. They're all idiots. I doubt talking to them will make me think they're less idiotic. The fact that some stupid people might come across as smart, is irrelevant. If they appear smart and don't vaccinate, we know that appearances can be deceptive.

I once met a journalist who reported on environmental issues. I don't really know much about environmental issues. I'm certainly no expert. But he was. Or so I thought. He went on in detail about all manner of environmental issues we had. I'd known him for a couple of months, and then it came out that he was against vaccinations. Then I started checking up the facts he'd been telling me all this time. All sensationalist bullshit it turns out. Who would've thunk?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Me personally, I'm for compulsory vaccinations. Who gives a shit what idiots think about anything? Even idiots benefit from vaccinations, forced or otherwise. Vaccinations are such a no brainer. Anybody against vaccinations is wrong. Why do we have to respect people we're 100% sure are wrong? I vote no.

Nice strawman. You assume that anyone who questions any aspect of vaccination " is against vaccination." And so you continue to completely misunderstand the issue. Lots of people want to vaccinate but want to know if the present ones can be made better, or if the present ones might have unintended consequences. Pfft

We aren't banning abortion, we are just passing regulations to protect women.

 

[Playball40]

1 in 168 go to the ER after a vaccination is NOT the same as 1 in 168 had an extreme reaction to the vaccination and had to go to the ER. And I'm no expert. My pediatrician, however, is. SHE has done the research, she has provided me with the 'potential side effects' as well as information on the disease to which my child is being vaccinated. SHE does have the studies on herd mentality and the results of STUPID, YES STUPID parents who choose not to vaccinate for NO FUCKING REASON. And you know what, I CARE about my neighbor's newborn baby so I DID vaccinate my kids. All SIX of them. How many do YOU have?

http://www.who.int/features/qa/84/en/

The side effects are typically very mild. There are rare cases of extreme reactions, but they are so extremely rare they won't even register on any scale against the benefits (or side effects from the diseases they are trying to prevent).

Sure but if we let some people here explain it. It might go something like this.

Internet vaccination expert: The risks are very low of your child having an extreme reaction to this vaccine.

Mother: Yes, but I understand 1 in every 168 children require an emergency room visit after a vaccination*. So i don't want my child to be one of them

Internet vaccination expert: Why you stupid moron, how dare you, you anti science luddite.

Mother: What affects on the long tern health of my child compared to an unvaccinated child. Do we have any studies?

Internet vaccination “expert”: We have done studies, go and fucking find them you moron. How dare you challenge me, I'm an expert.

Mother: I don’t think those studies exist, You are just pretending they do.​

*https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3236196/

 

[Harry Bosch]

Italy just made vaccinations compulsory. Good for them.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...pulsory/ar-BBBjJl1?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You don't think that is happening?

I think it is to some degree. Are studies being done comparing those vaccinated with those unvaccinated looking into more long term health effects. I can't find any. Bilby can't find any either. Do you know of any?

I doubt any exist.

1) Such a study would be very expensive.

2) Such a study would be meaningless. If you're going to do it you need to do it for each vaccine. "Vaccinated" and "unvaccinated" aren't proper groupings.

3) Vaccines are improved over time. By the time you had the results it would most likely be meaningless because that vaccine formula wouldn't be in use anymore.

Edit: A link to some studies has been posted--nowhere near the timeframe you're asking for, though.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Nice strawman. You assume that anyone who questions any aspect of vaccination " is against vaccination." And so you continue to completely misunderstand the issue. Lots of people want to vaccinate but want to know if the present ones can be made better, or if the present ones might have unintended consequences. Pfft

??? What possible contradiction could it be? I think it's helpful to understand that Sweden's national health service is tasked with helping the entire Swedish population and do what's best for the most Swedes. Treating all Swedes the same is completely uncontroversial in Sweden. The Swedish health service is given a bunch of money and scientists and medical researchers (not politicians) decide how this money can best improve the health of Swedes. Politics is completely left out of this. Which I think is something which is awesome and cool about Sweden.

Big Pharma have zero leverage and zero pull in Sweden. The medical researchers taking the decisions are leaders in their field and are uncorruptable. For the simple reason that the process is 100% transpararent, and loads of other people want their jobs. If they would screw up they'd be publicly hanged and replaced. There's just no way to get away with corruption here. So it's all legit, and only focused on helping people.

That means that they'll constantly be investigating ways to get more bang for the vaxx-buck. Safety is always weighed against cost. If going a more safer route for vaccinations will lead to more babies dying, heart failures or dead from cancer, they might opt for the less safe method. They always look at the Swedish population as a whole. And use hard data to maximise utility of every penny.

We just don't have the system that USA does. So in Sweden we don't need to worry. The system is built in such a way that, if left alone, it's mere structure will work to benefit me personally. And it's working. Swedes are very healthy, in spite of spending a lot less than Americans.

In the Swedish system your worry, is a non-issue. The Swedish system has plenty of problems. But this ain't it.

There's another cool thing about the Swedish system I forgot to mention, and which many people don't know. It's valuable for the Big Pharma companies to learn how the Swedish scientists on these health committies are thinking. So they can adapt their sales/development strategies well in adcance. So they provide scientists free of charge. They are spies. Sweden is full of this kind of sort-of-corruption. But which is completely in the open. It's unfair to give Big Pharma prior knowledge, but on the other hand the value these free-of-charge scientists provide is extremely high. This system allows to Big Pharma to finance basic science. Something major corporations usually can't afford. Only governments can afford it. Because of the doubtful pay-off. The cost of basic science is a bottle neck for the entire market. So the Swedish system is really smart in this regard. And is one of the reasons Karolinska is one of the world leading medical research hospitals.