SYG looks to have worked for once

[Jimmy Higgins]

link

While some people are wrongfully dead thanks to SYG in Florida, there apparently was a case very recently where SYG actually worked.

Driving along a dark stretch of two-lane road in central Florida, Boek swerved his pickup truck early Tuesday morning in front of the rideshare car.Uber driver Robert Westlake slammed on his brakes.

They narrowly avoided a crash and stopped in the middle of the roadway.

Then, Boek jumped out of his truck and quickly walked toward Westlake's Hyundai Elantra.

"You know I got a pistol?" Boek said, holding an object in the air. "You want me to f****** shoot you?"

Bang. With one shot, the Uber driver killed him.

The fatal confrontation, captured on Westlake's dash camera, was what the Polk County sheriff called a "classic 'stand your ground' case," referring to the controversial Florida law that grants immunity to people acting in self-defense.

We have a situation where a guy is acting overly aggressive, both in the driving and then with the threats (in the dark). And the person who DID NOT INITIATE the situation, responded with deadly action. What the Uber driver didn't know was the guy thought he was driving his victim's girlfriend, of whom he was having a shouting match with in text messages.

In theory, it could have been possible to drive off and escape the situation without shooting the person, but in the dark, being told he has a gun, and clearly not thinking straight, this seems like a rare case of SYG working in the favor of the person that was in the defensive position the entire time.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well, if Westlake had been driving in a properly licensed and marked taxi instead of working in unfair competitor which undercuts the industry, Boek wouldn't have mistaken him for someone else and the whole situation could have been avoided.

My point is that when you use Uber, people die. You need to ask yourself whether that's worth saving a couple of dollars.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

What's with the Uber hate?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

What's with the Uber hate?

Grab is better

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

What does Stand Your Ground add to this case that simple self defence would not?

And why did the guy he shot want to "fuck up the uber driver" in the first place? Did he think the uber driver was just doing his normal job or did he think the uber driver did something else that he found blameworthy?

 

[Derec]

"He dropped a cell phone. I kicked it away," said Westlake, who said he didn't realize it was a cell phone at first.
Westlake told the 911 operator he was applying pressure to the wound as Boek took faint, shallow breaths.
Boek died at the scene, the sheriff's office said. Authorities did not find a gun other than Westlake's at the scene, Judd said.

The shooting looks 1000% justified, but don't pretend that, had Boek been black, you would not been ranting about how he was an "unarmed black man" needlessly gunned down ...

 

[barbos]

Looks like it's a guy
https://florida.arrests.org/search....&fpartial=True&lname=Boek&startdate=&enddate=

 

[Derec]

And why did the guy he shot want to "fuck up the uber driver" in the first place?

He thought he was giving his (ex) girlfriend a ride home.

Did he think the uber driver was just doing his normal job or did he think the uber driver did something else that he found blameworthy?

Normal job. Boeck just got the passenger wrong.

Boeck was quite a thug.
An Uber driver got cut off by a man chasing the wrong car. It didn’t end well, cops say

The sheriff’s office goes on to say Boek has a criminal history that includes previous arrests for aggravated battery, battery, burglary, marijuana possession, forgery, larceny, resisting arrest and violation of probation.

At the time of his death, Boek, a former barber, was on felony probation for battery, which began in June 2016 and was scheduled to end in June 2021. His driver’s license was suspended in May 2018, and the truck he was driving does not belong to him – he borrowed it from a friend.

He also seems to have been a meth head.

“Deputies obtained a search warrant for the truck Boek was driving and recovered a marijuana cigarette, and a glass pipe containing meth residue.”

It would explain the violent rage, but it might also belong to the friend who was the owner.

 

[Derec]

Well, if Westlake had been driving in a properly licensed and marked taxi instead of working in unfair competitor which undercuts the industry, Boek wouldn't have mistaken him for someone else and the whole situation could have been avoided.

- How is Uber an "unfair competitor"? If marked taxis charge more for worse service, they need some competition outside the outdated taxi system. Unfortunately cities like NYC are trying to restore the taxi monopoly - selling medallions for a million dollars is too good a racket to give up after all.
- It being a marked taxi would not have changed anything. Thug sees woman get in vehicle. He mistakenly thinks it's his ex. He follows said vehicle. Old-fashioned taxi or Uber, it would not have made any difference.

My point is that when you use Uber, people die. You need to ask yourself whether that's worth saving a couple of dollars.

Insane troll logic.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well, if Westlake had been driving in a properly licensed and marked taxi instead of working in unfair competitor which undercuts the industry, Boek wouldn't have mistaken him for someone else and the whole situation could have been avoided.

- How is Uber an "unfair competitor"? If marked taxis charge more for worse service, they need some competition outside the outdated taxi system. Unfortunately cities like NYC are trying to restore the taxi monopoly - selling medallions for a million dollars is too good a racket to give up after all.
- It being a marked taxi would not have changed anything. Thug sees woman get in vehicle. He mistakenly thinks it's his ex. He follows said vehicle. Old-fashioned taxi or Uber, it would not have made any difference.

My point is that when you use Uber, people die. You need to ask yourself whether that's worth saving a couple of dollars.

Insane troll logic.

It's not insane. Every time somebody uses Uber, a person dies. That's just a fact. You can not like that fact as much as you want, but it doesn't stop it from being a fact.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

link

While some people are wrongfully dead thanks to SYG in Florida, there apparently was a case very recently where SYG actually worked.

Driving along a dark stretch of two-lane road in central Florida, Boek swerved his pickup truck early Tuesday morning in front of the rideshare car.Uber driver Robert Westlake slammed on his brakes.

They narrowly avoided a crash and stopped in the middle of the roadway.

Then, Boek jumped out of his truck and quickly walked toward Westlake's Hyundai Elantra.

"You know I got a pistol?" Boek said, holding an object in the air. "You want me to f****** shoot you?"

Bang. With one shot, the Uber driver killed him.

The fatal confrontation, captured on Westlake's dash camera, was what the Polk County sheriff called a "classic 'stand your ground' case," referring to the controversial Florida law that grants immunity to people acting in self-defense.

We have a situation where a guy is acting overly aggressive, both in the driving and then with the threats (in the dark). And the person who DID NOT INITIATE the situation, responded with deadly action. What the Uber driver didn't know was the guy thought he was driving his victim's girlfriend, of whom he was having a shouting match with in text messages.

In theory, it could have been possible to drive off and escape the situation without shooting the person, but in the dark, being told he has a gun, and clearly not thinking straight, this seems like a rare case of SYG working in the favor of the person that was in the defensive position the entire time.

It's not a rare case, it's just that such cases normally are not more than small items in the local news. The questionable cases make nationwide news.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well, if Westlake had been driving in a properly licensed and marked taxi instead of working in unfair competitor which undercuts the industry, Boek wouldn't have mistaken him for someone else and the whole situation could have been avoided.

- How is Uber an "unfair competitor"? If marked taxis charge more for worse service, they need some competition outside the outdated taxi system. Unfortunately cities like NYC are trying to restore the taxi monopoly - selling medallions for a million dollars is too good a racket to give up after all.
- It being a marked taxi would not have changed anything. Thug sees woman get in vehicle. He mistakenly thinks it's his ex. He follows said vehicle. Old-fashioned taxi or Uber, it would not have made any difference.

My point is that when you use Uber, people die. You need to ask yourself whether that's worth saving a couple of dollars.

Insane troll logic.

Ignore the "unfair" part--it sounds like the problem was the Uber was mistaken for being a romantic hookup. A taxi would have obviously not been related.

 

[Derec]

Ignore the "unfair" part--it sounds like the problem was the Uber was mistaken for being a romantic hookup. A taxi would have obviously not been related.

Oh, I thought he knew it was an Uber. Don't Uber cars have stickers on them?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Ignore the "unfair" part--it sounds like the problem was the Uber was mistaken for being a romantic hookup. A taxi would have obviously not been related.

Oh, I thought he knew it was an Uber. Don't Uber cars have stickers on them?

It's not that obvious. I was hit by a Lyft driver--and only found it out when her insurance denied the claim because she was driving for Lyft at the time. (Beware, Lyft's insurance is very badly behaved!)

 

[Arctish]

What does Stand Your Ground add to this case that simple self defence would not?

Nothing.

 

[RavenSky]

- How is Uber an "unfair competitor"? If marked taxis charge more for worse service, they need some competition outside the outdated taxi system. Unfortunately cities like NYC are trying to restore the taxi monopoly - selling medallions for a million dollars is too good a racket to give up after all.
- It being a marked taxi would not have changed anything. Thug sees woman get in vehicle. He mistakenly thinks it's his ex. He follows said vehicle. Old-fashioned taxi or Uber, it would not have made any difference.



Insane troll logic.

Ignore the "unfair" part--it sounds like the problem was the Uber was mistaken for being a romantic hookup. A taxi would have obviously not been related.

No.

The Uber driver was not mistaken for a romantic hook-up. The Uber driver was mistaken for having Boek's ex-girlfriend in the vehicle. Boek saw ex-girlfriend's friend loading someone into the Uber car, and wrongly assumed it was his ex-girlfriend. In fact, the ex-girlfriend was inside the club, and it was a different friend getting into the Uber. The same thing would have happened with a regular taxi.

In the meantime, all of this has nothing whatsoever to do with whether this was a legitimate SYG situation. Tom is pulling your collective legs.

 

[RavenSky]

What does Stand Your Ground add to this case that simple self defence would not?

Nothing.

Actually not entirely true.

Under SYG, the police have the discretion (gun-nuts say "duty") to not arrest the shooter if it is a clear case of SYG; whereas with ordinary self-defense, the police would still have to go through the motions. In Florida, under SYG, defendants also have a right to a pre-trial hearing to argue SYG and get the charges thrown out before a trial.

The most important point is that SYG is not a defense to a prosecution, whereas "self-defense" is. Basically, under typical "self-defense", the accused has to show they are not guilty of XXX because self-defense - they have to prove they acted in self-defense. Under SYG, prosecution must prove it was not self-defense - the assumption defaults to it was self-defense.

Last note, in some states, "self-defense" includes a "duty to retreat", whereas SYG does not.

The supposed idea behind SYG (as it was sold to the public) was that innocent people engaged in genuine self-defense should not be put through the emotional and financial burdens of lengthy court battles just for defending themselves against criminals.

Not defending any of the above - just noting that it is slightly different from standard "self-defense"

 

[TV and credit cards]

It looks to me the Uber driver could have driven around the pickup when he pulled in front of him, but he didn't have to, did he? No. We have no duty to retreat or avoid such situations. It's a good thing this was a desolate road in the wee hours of the morning and Westlake had completed the advanced training to become a police officer. It's a good thing the laws are the same for the average Joe (with whatever minimal training the great state of Florida requires) in a busy shopping area on a Saturday afternoon.
Justifiable in Florida? Check. All conditions optimal for this outcome? Check.


In 2001 a friend and his family were following me to a campground we both knew well. I drove a green '98 Ford Explorer, a popular vehicle at the time. Along the way the engine thermostat malfunctioned and the engine overheated forcing me to pull into a business parking lot. Somehow my friend managed to pick up on and follow another green Ford Explorer. Of course that individual was not going to the campground. He did evidently notice he was being followed and eventually drove to and stopped in a turn-around on a dirt road in the foothills of San Diego. My friend angered and annoyed as to where I was going and what I was up to and the driver of the other vehicle the same at being followed, both got out of their vehicles. My friend recognizing his mistake stopped and explained the situation.
No guns or cell phones were drawn during this event. It was a kinder, gentler time.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The supposed idea behind SYG (as it was sold to the public) was that innocent people engaged in genuine self-defense should not be put through the emotional and financial burdens of lengthy court battles just for defending themselves against criminals.

Not defending any of the above - just noting that it is slightly different from standard "self-defense"

And, in practice, this is the main effect.

The number of cases where the removal of the duty to retreat is relevant are small. Mainly, it prevents the reflexive arrest of the shooter. Such shooters are usually low flight risk, what's the reason for a reflexive arrest?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It looks to me the Uber driver could have driven around the pickup when he pulled in front of him, but he didn't have to, did he? No. We have no duty to retreat or avoid such situations. It's a good thing this was a desolate road in the wee hours of the morning and Westlake had completed the advanced training to become a police officer. It's a good thing the laws are the same for the average Joe (with whatever minimal training the great state of Florida requires) in a busy shopping area on a Saturday afternoon.

The "victim" here claimed to be armed. Driving around wouldn't keep the driver from being shot. Thus there's no safe retreat option anyway. The law has never required you to take a risky retreat option.