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Synthetic Covid

unapologetic

50+ years without a god
Joined
Dec 12, 2023
Messages
224
Location
Penna. USA
Basic Beliefs
antitheist
I heard a crazy idea from a rightwing neighbor yesterday:
Since Covid 19 was created from scratch in a lab, it can't mutate. (WTF)
So the yearly Covid variants must also come from a lab.
So that big pharma can sell a new vaccine every year.
I tried to explain that no mater where it came from, It is a living thing, and does mutate without our help.
But as you know, I am unable to convince anybody of anything.

Where did he get this synthetic Covid BS? Faux Opinion channel? Is this a common belief among the right wing or anti-vaxers?
 
I've heard the made in a lab bit from QOP types before, but never the can't-mutate bit.
 
Faux Opinion channel?

I think it’s pronounced “fauxpinion channel”.
Nope, two words.
Faux Opinion,
as opposed to Fox News.
I'm saying it is an opinion channel, not a news channel.
5% news, 95% opinion.
Their opinions are wrong, but I'm not saying they are false.
I think calling their opinions news is disgraceful.
 
I've heard the made in a lab bit from QOP types before, but never the can't-mutate bit.
I think somebody wants to blame he variants on the drug companies.
But why would they bother when Covid makes it's own variants?
Point of order: Viruses don't even make their own offspring. They hijack the infected organism's cellular mechanism to make new viruses, whether the same strain, or a new one.

A new strain of Covid is always man-made, and could be made in a lab (if one of the people in the lab happens to be infected). It isn't deliberately man-made, but it's unavoidably man-made, nevertheless.

/pedantry
 
I've heard the made in a lab bit from QOP types before, but never the can't-mutate bit.
I think somebody wants to blame he variants on the drug companies.
But why would they bother when Covid makes it's own variants?
Point of order: Viruses don't even make their own offspring. They hijack the infected organism's cellular mechanism to make new viruses, whether the same strain, or a new one.

A new strain of Covid is always man-made, and could be made in a lab (if one of the people in the lab happens to be infected). It isn't deliberately man-made, but it's unavoidably man-made, nevertheless.

/pedantry
And inherently flawed. It's the mistakes in our body that cause variants to arise. (Although Omicron looks suspiciously like it was a mouse rather than a person.)
 
People know there are caves where bats carry this stuff right? But somehow the immediate conclusion is "IT WAS LAB MADE".
 
People know there are caves where bats carry this stuff right? But somehow the immediate conclusion is "IT WAS LAB MADE".
Said bat hasn't been found. There's a very similar virus in bats, but not the same thing. It's not the only virus whose normal host hasn't been found, though.

However, history shows that fundamentally, this predates our ability to actually make it in the lab. There's something out there that's close but not quite capable of infecting humans. Occasionally a variant manages to make the jump. It's just now we have the genetic knowledge to understand what's going on.

Personally, I don't think Covid/Wuhan was the original strain. Rather, there was something out there capable of infecting humans but with an R0 below 1. People got sick but the exact pathogen is often not identified, it was just noise. I think Covid/Wuhan was actually the first variant. R0 above 1, respiratory + touch vector and timed perfectly with the holiday. At least before this there was a big cultural problem with chopstick handling--in theory your chopsticks should never go in a communal dish, or you should turn them around for doing so. But people were extremely lax about this--my wife was always making an issue about it with her family, every dish got it's own pair of chopsticks for serving and even then she would always grab what she wanted right at the start because sooner or later someone's chopsticks were going to end up in the dish.
 
People know there are caves where bats carry this stuff right? But somehow the immediate conclusion is "IT WAS LAB MADE".
Said bat hasn't been found. There's a very similar virus in bats, but not the same thing. It's not the only virus whose normal host hasn't been found, though.

However, history shows that fundamentally, this predates our ability to actually make it in the lab. There's something out there that's close but not quite capable of infecting humans. Occasionally a variant manages to make the jump. It's just now we have the genetic knowledge to understand what's going on.

Personally, I don't think Covid/Wuhan was the original strain. Rather, there was something out there capable of infecting humans but with an R0 below 1. People got sick but the exact pathogen is often not identified, it was just noise. I think Covid/Wuhan was actually the first variant. R0 above 1, respiratory + touch vector and timed perfectly with the holiday. At least before this there was a big cultural problem with chopstick handling--in theory your chopsticks should never go in a communal dish, or you should turn them around for doing so. But people were extremely lax about this--my wife was always making an issue about it with her family, every dish got it's own pair of chopsticks for serving and even then she would always grab what she wanted right at the start because sooner or later someone's chopsticks were going to end up in the dish.
That's what I meant, it's a similar virus so conceivably could have mutated without any lab intervention. Don't see how that's so far-fetched.
 
People know there are caves where bats carry this stuff right? But somehow the immediate conclusion is "IT WAS LAB MADE".
Said bat hasn't been found. There's a very similar virus in bats, but not the same thing. It's not the only virus whose normal host hasn't been found, though.

However, history shows that fundamentally, this predates our ability to actually make it in the lab. There's something out there that's close but not quite capable of infecting humans. Occasionally a variant manages to make the jump. It's just now we have the genetic knowledge to understand what's going on.

Personally, I don't think Covid/Wuhan was the original strain. Rather, there was something out there capable of infecting humans but with an R0 below 1. People got sick but the exact pathogen is often not identified, it was just noise. I think Covid/Wuhan was actually the first variant. R0 above 1, respiratory + touch vector and timed perfectly with the holiday. At least before this there was a big cultural problem with chopstick handling--in theory your chopsticks should never go in a communal dish, or you should turn them around for doing so. But people were extremely lax about this--my wife was always making an issue about it with her family, every dish got it's own pair of chopsticks for serving and even then she would always grab what she wanted right at the start because sooner or later someone's chopsticks were going to end up in the dish.
That's what I meant, it's a similar virus so conceivably could have mutated without any lab intervention. Don't see how that's so far-fetched.
We haven't found the most recent ancestor--but that doesn't really mean anything because it might very well be extinct. Covid/Wuhan is extinct, why should we assume it's parent is around?
 
I'm saying the strain that went wild in Wuhan went extinct some time ago. We are still dealing with variants from it.
Sources please.

Note that's from Mid-21 and they were already not seeing it anymore.

And, not related but relevant to the thread:


While such an analysis is inherently statistical in nature it sure looks like it made the jump more than once, which pretty much proves it was in animals first.
 
Thanks.

"However, it cannot be confirmed for certain that the strain has been eliminated, raising the question of how long a strain must go undetected before being considered, in all probability, extinct."

Yeah, that's why I questioned it.
 
Thanks.

"However, it cannot be confirmed for certain that the strain has been eliminated, raising the question of how long a strain must go undetected before being considered, in all probability, extinct."

Yeah, that's why I questioned it.
Yeah, it's not been long enough to be truly declared extinct. But it almost certainly is.

It's like the flu strain that the lockdown probably got. It's not been declared extinct, but the plan is to omit it from this year's flu shot because of the danger of a containment failure. They use live virus in the production of the flu vaccine and every time you handle a live virus that's another chance for a problem.
 
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