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Tarot

DrZoidberg

Contributor
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
11,202
Location
Copenhagen
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
I've started on a project to create my own tarot deck. Not to get rich. But just as a fun little project for me, my lovers and friends. I like to paint, I like to write poetry I am into philosophy and I like to play around with occultism. I think it's a good combo use of my available talents.

Since starting this I keep having conversations where people were asking why. So I wrote a text justifying my project. I think this forum is just the kind of people to critique this. Please do your best to rip apart my logic. You don't need to be gentle. I'm not going to be hurt.


Tarot deck mission statement

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

We go through life putting labels on things, sorting them, squeezing big things into small boxes. Not because we are stupid or unenlightened. But simply because life is complicated and we need to do this to be able to function in society. Sometimes (or quite often) we don’t have time to connect with our feelings, and be conscious about why we do what we do. Because we just need to get stuff done. When we do give ourselves the permission and time to fully connect with ourselves, we might feel a bit lost. Its a question of practice.

I created this deck in order to help us get out of our current personal logical and ordered universe and to connect with other universes. Some archetypes are more universal, and some simply an other perspective. To me tarot and spirituality is the practice of breaking through the rigid patterns we have built for ourselves to connect with other patterns of behaviours and structures of thinking. We first need to let go to be able to connect with a new perspective.

Occultism comes from the Latin “occultus”, that which is hidden. Esotericism, hermeticism, magic, witchcraft, spirituality, mysticism and tarot are all traditions to study this. We can interpret these traditions as as the study of the supernatural. Meaning, with the correct rituals and words we can manipulate the physical world and bend it to our will.

Another interpretation, and the one I will use, is more mundane and not supernatural at all. We can use magical rituals and practices to reveal and manipulate our subconscious. To reveal that which is hidden from our conscious mind, yet undeniably rule us. We have all done or said things that we’d many times promised ourselves we wouldn’t do again. We’ve all repeated destructive patterns we know are destructive. Yet, we keep repeating them. It's this the magician seeks to reveal and change.

In the modern world we have a language to describe this, psychology. But the tools with which to manipulate our subconscious are as old as humanity itself. And, I would argue, are at the core of every religion and spiritual practice. We use them because they work. We use them for social control and self control. These tools have been honed and perfected over the millennia. Each tradition and practice system continuously evolving to fit the needs of a changing world. Following the rise of the enlightenment and secular culture the elite priestly class who used to control these tools, lost that control. The practices were spread to a wider audience by people like Hermes Trismagistus, John Dee, Eliphas Levi, Austin Osman Spare, Dion Fortune, MacGregor Mathers, Aleister Crowley and Anton Szandor LaVey. Today the problem isn’t access to this information, but rather a lacking guidance for how to use these tools, and an absence of ways to integrate these tools into everyday life.

We all have a multitude of wills and voices within ourselves pulling in different directions. More or less conscious to us. The Jungian archetype system was an attempt to categorise these inner voices in a way that made sense to modern psychology. Similarly each tarot card is designed to speak to one of those inner voices. Conscious or hidden. The goal here is to make the hidden visible.

Contemporary psychology rests upon the idea that the feelings, emotions, narrative and world views that we are culturally subjected to can be integrated. That means that we have them rather than them having us. I believe the traditional tools of magic can help with that. We can get closer to laying bare the inner processes, the elements, events that make your experience of self. Not your experience of the physical world. But your inner cognitive representation of it. To make conscious the ways you bend the perception of reality to fit your emotional needs. Not only your ego. But the complex construction of self you have built to fit into your social and cultural context, built upon a gendered primate neural architecture. We can call the conscious and volitional manipulation of these, to change our experience, magic.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Biography:
This part isn't part of the text. But it's more of a background if you are interested in the background of this. You can just skip this. I used to be a rabid atheist who hated religion. I've never had any belief in the supernatural at any time of my life. 2012 me and some friends came across "Religion for Atheists" by Alain de Botton. The theory behind it is that religious practice is great. That's why religion exists. It's not fundamentally about belief in anything supernatural. That's just what religious people say. But it's not why they're religious. Incidentally the same view of Jürgen Habermas. So me and my friends created a religion. A religion for atheists. We called it Syntheism. It's now a thing and has a life of it's own. Our organisational theory was that modern religion doesn't need cult leaders telling everybody what to believe. The Internet and social media gives us all the tools to create viable bottom up religious organisations where the collective can act as priests for eachother. All we needed to do was to start doing it for ourselves and if it was any good it would catch on. The forrest fire of Syntheism has been raging since we started it, and it's way beyond any of our control. There's now loosely affiliated "churches" all over northern, western and southern Europe. Which I'm cool with. It's by design.

Since we started the Syntheism project I've been systematically studied every religion, read every sacred text ever created in human history (there's not as many as that sounds like). I've studied occultism and mysticism.

I now have a deep respect for religion and spirituality. Something all of us who started Syntheism realised along the way, is that the world doesn't really need Syntheism. You can be an atheist and belong to any of the already existing religions or spiritual systems. They will work just fine anyway. Or better. I think supernatural beliefs are a pure distraction from the core of any religion. The reason why, I think, Syntheism is still going as it's own thing is because old timey religion feels a bit tainted through the use and abuse of religion through the ages. I don't have a favourite. If I had to pick one I'd probably go with Greek/Roman paganism. But I think the religions are too similar for it to matter much. Several of us (three to be exact) who started Syntheism have converted to Christianity and become priests (a variety of denominations). Which is interesting. With quite creative and sophisticated ways to interpret what God is. We all agree that religion and spiritual work is important. I'm still just as much as atheists as I've always been. I don't believe in the supernatural the slighest little bit. After studying religion I now think I better understand why belief in the supernatural is so widespread. Since the belief in the supernatural is no longer baffling to me, that makes me less likely than ever to believe in the supernatural.

Creating a tarot deck is part of my spritual journey and spiritual work.
 
Wow, that's great. I'd love to see your deck when you've completed it. I've always wanted to get a deck of Dali's Tarot.

Your journey is very much like mine. I have lately embraced theosophy in the same way you have embraced the Tarot. In particular, I have become quite enthusiastic about the work of Robert T. Browne. The Pantelicon is just terrific.

Human life requires a spiritual component. Atheists must claim this dimension of existence.

I'll be looking into syntheism. Love what I see so far.

I am now quite firmly rooted in the philosophy of Spinoza, particularly as developed by two of his twentieth-century expositors, Constantin Brunner and Harry Waton. This provides a formidable foundation for syntheism, incompassing the whole of science, philosophy and mysticism in a way that is thoroughly compatible with atheism.
 
One of HP Lovecraft's themes was somebody dabbling in the occult and getting more than he bargained for.

From the translation of the Chinese I Ching I read, used by a skilled practitioner it was a pschologucal tool to help guide someone through a problem. Or it could be used as an allged duvination.

Youask or think a qustion and then throw bones or sticks to derive a number that imdexes into the book, and you interet what you read. Or have it interpreted for ypu.

I expect the history of Tarot Cards is similar along with a Ouija Board.
 
Human life requires a spiritual component. Atheists must claim this dimension of existence.

I'm completely off that dichotomy. I think the atheist/agnostic/theist divide is complete bullshit and only makes sense if you are Christian or so steeped in Christian thinking you can't help but think like a Christian.

I can contrast it with another spiritual system, Zoroastrianism. They don’t have easy answers about God. It's purely functional. They ask the question, is it working? Are you the person you want to be and is your community what you want it to be? If it isn't then change your beliefs and practices to something different until it works.

I have an atheistic friend who is a yoga teacher. When we did yoga together he would do the whole new age spiritual shpiel. I asked him why. "I believe it when I do yoga, and then scrub my brain of if afterwards". I tried it. It works. I became measurably more flexible.

To me the term atheist just mean that I don't belong to a fanclub and I don't believe in the supernatural. Science describes physical reality better than anything else. We need no other tools for that. And that's not what religion is for. Religion and spirituality is 100% brain and consciousness management. They are excellent tools for that
 
One of HP Lovecraft's themes was somebody dabbling in the occult and getting more than he bargained for.

HP Lovecraft was a Nietzschean. Nietzsche said we had killed God and that this was a tragedy. Both Nietzsche and Lovecrafts work is about coping with the horror of life being meaningless.

Still valid questions and issues all humans need to struggle with. I don't have an answer. But they were loving in a culture where everybody around them was Christian. I'm not. So it's different for me. Much easier to find others like me

From the translation of the Chinese I Ching I read, used by a skilled practitioner it was a pschologucal tool to help guide someone through a problem. Or it could be used as an allged duvination.

Youask or think a qustion and then throw bones or sticks to derive a number that imdexes into the book, and you interet what you read. Or have it interpreted for ypu.

I expect the history of Tarot Cards is similar along with a Ouija Board.

Yeah. I use it the same way. A spiritual reading is a rorschach blot. The one being read is doing all the work. The tool and the facilitator are just trying to shake it up a bit. At least if they are any good.
 
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Human life requires a spiritual component.
No, it doesn't

Atheists must claim this dimension of existence.

There's nothing to claim. The "spiritual dimension" is an empty set; It's pure fiction.

We might as well plan an invasion of Narnia.*










*We're gonna need a bigger wardrobe
 
One of HP Lovecraft's themes was somebody dabbling in the occult and getting more than he bargained for.

HP Lovecraft was a Nietzschean. Nietzsche said we had killed God and that this was a tragedy. Both Nietzsche and Lovecrafts work is about coping with the horror of life being meaningless.

Still valid questions and issues all humans need to struggle with. I don't have an answer. But they were loving in a culture where everybody around them was Christian. I'm not. So it's different for me. Much easier to find others like me

From the translation of the Chinese I Ching I read, used by a skilled practitioner it was a pschologucal tool to help guide someone through a problem. Or it could be used as an allged duvination.

Youask or think a qustion and then throw bones or sticks to derive a number that imdexes into the book, and you interet what you read. Or have it interpreted for ypu.

I expect the history of Tarot Cards is similar along with a Ouija Board.

Yeah. I use it the same way. A spiritual reading is a rorschach blot. The one being read is doing all the work. The tool and the facilitator are just trying to shake it up a bit. At least if they are any good.
Yes, but there was a cultural context to the symbolism.

Heaven above represented the aristocracy. Earth the common people. A chimney standing alone had family meaning. Or so I remember from Wilhelm.
 

From the translation of the Chinese I Ching I read, used by a skilled practitioner it was a pschologucal tool to help guide someone through a problem. Or it could be used as an allged duvination.

Youask or think a qustion and then throw bones or sticks to derive a number that imdexes into the book, and you interet what you read. Or have it interpreted for ypu.

I expect the history of Tarot Cards is similar along with a Ouija Board.

Yeah. I use it the same way. A spiritual reading is a rorschach blot. The one being read is doing all the work. The tool and the facilitator are just trying to shake it up a bit. At least if they are any good.
Yes, but there was a cultural context to the symbolism.

Heaven above represented the aristocracy. Earth the common people. A chimney standing alone had family meaning. Or so I remember from Wilhelm.
Sure. But we're also culturaly removed from the context of 16th century Marseille, when the first tarot (used for readings) was created. This has always been the most popular and commonly used tarot deck. I personaly only think that tarot works for cultural Catholics. Everyone I have read about who prefers it grew up in a deeply Catholic country. The main contemporary theorist on tarot is Alejandro Jodorowski, and he pushes the Marseille tarot hard in his book, the Way of Tarot. I don't see it's universal applicability.

I also don't like Crowleys tarot. The second most popular deck. Since he'd been mining Kabalah, Egyptian and pagan mythology for that one. I'm sure that adds to the mystery (ie coolness). But who today knows kabalah and Egyptian mythology forwards and backwards? His tarot deck is specifically designed for members of the Golden Dawn. Ie a special interest club of mystics who were extremely well read. The whole point of the art and design of the cards is to connect with the subconscious and get your associations going and flowing. Without Crowleys guidebooks his cards make zero sense. It becomes a purely intellectual excercise. Which defeats the point IMHO. Spiritual work is about feelings. Not thinking. It's all your thinking that got you into this mess (you are trying to fix with the spiritual work) to begin with.

The decks i prefer are the newer pop-cultural decks recently produced. But they're predominantly New Age. Ie, what you feel is true and needs to be validated. A super dangerous and unhelpful practice. Since it's not going to make anyone grow and change. It makes children out of adults.

There are exceptions. I really like The Wild Unknown Archetypes Deck by Kim Krans. He's my main inspiration for this. It's based on Jungian archetypes. I like Jung's archetypes as a good example of a of structure to talk about the various facets of humanity. But Man and His Symbols was published in 1964. Very much a product of it's time. Super super Christian and super super post WW2 where anything not western gets elevated. But seen through a Christian lens. So Christian/Western culture gets blindly projected onto non-western cultures. Just creating this bizarre mishmash. I'm not fundamentally against doing this. I just don't like the basic stance, of treating these as universal archetypes. They're not. They're archetypes that makes sense to people having grown up in a Christian country, who have been traumatized by a recent world war and who are now facing the reality of European imperial project falling apart around them. 1964 was a really weird time for humanity. A spiritually turbulent and transitional time.

What I love about that deck is that it's structure and design is completely different. There's ways to split and sort the deck if you want a specific kind of reading. Very clever, and no doubt inspired by modern card games. I too can use that same idea.

I also love all the specific licensed tarot decks based on any pop cultural trademark. They're often cute and funny. But the problem with these is that they are often shallow. They're intended to be little more than party games. There's not a thought out system. There's a couple of cards that are impressive. The rest of shit. They're also predominantly targetted to teenage girls. So have teenage girl relevant topics. What these have going for them is that they connect with powerful, currently relevant, subconscious symbols. That's what pop culture (and advertising) is all about. Advertisers are our age's greatest practicioners of occult and magic. Marketting is all about connecting with the subconscious and manipulating us to do their bidding. That's why I like these. I just think I can do better :)
 
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Could you tell me more about the Pantelicon? I'm not finding much information out there.

The Pantelicon is an extremely rare work. It was published in 2001 in English and Spanish. It was apparently compiled by followers of Robert T. Browne from his notes and lectures. These followers were located in the Dominican Republic, where Browne had a significant following.

I obtained a copy of the English version of The Pantelicon through ebay. I have made a scan. I am reluctant to share it because of copyright concerns. I have endeavored to contact the publisher but without success. There is a copy at New York Public Library.

Browne achieved a certain amount of fame with his book on the fourth dimension, but racism against him led to his obscurity.

There is a four-part youtube video biography of Browne.

An early version of The Pantelicon is available. It covers only the plan for an international academy.

On the theosophy subreddit, I have posted some quotations from The Pantelicon. Here are some dealing with Saturn:
"The Assumption of Rule By SATURN (CHRONOS) over the economy of both the heavens and the earth, inaugurating the Permanent Golden Age, and his program of universal metaphorism or transfers which will effect a radical turnover of all planes and world-processes."--Robert T. Browne, The Pantelicon, p.4

“Cacolysis or the destruction of karma of human creations may be brought about by the persistent use of the Violet Consuming Flame emanating from the Seventh Planetary Logos, SATURN, and the Blue Lightning of Cosmic Purity provided by the Elohim of Purity.” ."--Robert T. Browne, The Pantelicon, p.44

“The Violet Consuming Flame, an expression of the nature and function of SATURN, which has the power to consume away and annihilate the cacogenic contaminations of human creations: sins of body, mind and speech. The Violet Flame, by its high vibratory rate and consuming power, is an effective decontaminant of the soul, operating to wipe out the evil accumulations in the human life-stream.” ."--Robert T. Browne, The Pantelicon, p. 50

"The overall objective of Saturn is the theocratization of the terrestrial human octave, the bringing of the human family into that state wherein thearchy shall prevail throughout. Obviously before the objective can be attained there must be a general detergence of the human organism as it exists on the earth to-day. It must be purged by means of the cathartic action of the Violet Flame and Blue Lightning of Cosmic Purity before it can enter into that state where it is amenable to theocratic control. But in the accomplishment of this objective these two cycles, not mention the others, are necessarily conjoined, in the actional phases, to accelerate this process.."--Robert T. Browne, The Pantelicon, p.93
 
Is this contradiction? I was looking for argument. Perhaps down the hall....
You made a false claim. There's no argument unless you provide one, because the burden if proof is yours.

That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
That spirituality is a fundamental and necessary component of human life is a well-supported assertion, including within the scientific community:

[A]gnostic and atheist “secular humanists” have been quietly taught that spirituality is foolish or, at best, questionable. Some secular humanists are spiritual but most are not. We are thus cut off from a deep aspect of our humanity. Humans have led intricate and meaningful spiritual lives for thousands of years, and many secular humanists are bereft of it. Reinventing the sacred as our response to the emergent creativity in the universe can open secular humanists to the legitimacy of their own spirituality.--Stuart Kauffman, "Breaking The Galilean Spell"

[T]he movement of atheists, which declares religion to be just a deliberate illusion, invented by power-seeking priests, and which has for the pious belief in a higher Power nothing but words of mockery, eagerly makes use of progressive scientific knowledge and in a presumed unity with it, expands in an ever faster pace its disintegrating action on all nations of the earth and on all social levels. I do not need to explain in any more detail that after its victory not only all the most precious treasures of our culture would vanish, but — which is even worse — also any prospects at a better future.--Max Planck / Religion und Naturwissenschaft (1958)
 
How is Tarot doing anything but butting one's own perspective into reality?

This is why I like the Tao Te Ching, Eightfold Path, and The Four Noble Truths. Life is about relations and change and our struggle to deal with that. The human mind wants routine. Life doesn't provide it at a guarantee, hence we struggle. People get lost in the meaning of things, when things have no meaning unless we provide them. Where as the documents above teach us about relations between things and how something doesn't have to have a moral value to have importance.
 
Dr Z, are you familiar with Aleister Crowley ? I read Diary Of A Drug Fiend in the 70s. His followers believed he was a real magician. Also Huxely's Doors Of Perception about his mescaline experience.

 
How is Tarot doing anything but butting one's own perspective into reality?

This is why I like the Tao Te Ching, Eightfold Path, and The Four Noble Truths. Life is about relations and change and our struggle to deal with that. The human mind wants routine. Life doesn't provide it at a guarantee, hence we struggle. People get lost in the meaning of things, when things have no meaning unless we provide them. Where as the documents above teach us about relations between things and how something doesn't have to have a moral value to have importance.
As I see it, whatever can jolt you out of your current frame of mind and make you see things from another perspective is good. Do that. But nobody can say what works best for you. It's so personal. We all got our personal triggers, red flags, safe spaces etc.
 
Dr Z, are you familiar with Aleister Crowley ? I read Diary Of A Drug Fiend in the 70s. His followers believed he was a real magician. Also Huxely's Doors Of Perception about his mescaline experience.

Yeah. I've been a Crowley fan all my life. His lectures on yoga is still the best explanation of yoga I have ever read. A brilliant guy. I have his tarot deck.

I've also always been a Huxley fan. I love psychadelics
 
Is this contradiction? I was looking for argument. Perhaps down the hall....
You made a false claim. There's no argument unless you provide one, because the burden if proof is yours.

That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
That spirituality is a fundamental and necessary component of human life is a well-supported assertion, including within the scientific community:

[A]gnostic and atheist “secular humanists” have been quietly taught that spirituality is foolish or, at best, questionable. Some secular humanists are spiritual but most are not. We are thus cut off from a deep aspect of our humanity. Humans have led intricate and meaningful spiritual lives for thousands of years, and many secular humanists are bereft of it. Reinventing the sacred as our response to the emergent creativity in the universe can open secular humanists to the legitimacy of their own spirituality.--Stuart Kauffman, "Breaking The Galilean Spell"

[T]he movement of atheists, which declares religion to be just a deliberate illusion, invented by power-seeking priests, and which has for the pious belief in a higher Power nothing but words of mockery, eagerly makes use of progressive scientific knowledge and in a presumed unity with it, expands in an ever faster pace its disintegrating action on all nations of the earth and on all social levels. I do not need to explain in any more detail that after its victory not only all the most precious treasures of our culture would vanish, but — which is even worse — also any prospects at a better future.--Max Planck / Religion und Naturwissenschaft (1958)

I don't think everybody needs religion or spiritual practice. Some people just don't seem to care. Each to their own. I don't have a messiah complex
 
Some people feel good without a need for escapism and the 'spiritual' so to s[eak.
 
Human life requires a spiritual component. Atheists must claim this dimension of existence.

I'm completely off that dichotomy. I think the atheist/agnostic/theist divide is complete bullshit and only makes sense if you are Christian or so steeped in Christian thinking you can't help but think like a Christian.

I can contrast it with another spiritual system, Zoroastrianism. They don’t have easy answers about God. It's purely functional. They ask the question, is it working? Are you the person you want to be and is your community what you want it to be? If it isn't then change your beliefs and practices to something different until it works.

I have an atheistic friend who is a yoga teacher. When we did yoga together he would do the whole new age spiritual shpiel. I asked him why. "I believe it when I do yoga, and then scrub my brain of if afterwards". I tried it. It works. I became measurably more flexible.

To me the term atheist just mean that I don't belong to a fanclub and I don't believe in the supernatural. Science describes physical reality better than anything else. We need no other tools for that. And that's not what religion is for. Religion and spirituality is 100% brain and consciousness management. They are excellent tools for that

I like this post! One of my many regrets in life is not letting my spiritual self develop.

I am "a believer in science" but don't rule out "supernatural" forces (e.g. acting via retrocausality).

Though not believing in it, over five decades ago I cast astrological horoscopes for fun. At the same time I discovered an elegant map from the 12 signs to the 64 I Ching hexagrams. (Too bad I lost this.) I've also dabbled in fortune-telling with an ordinary deck of cards. Being a hobbyist programmer, more recently I wrote an I Ching App. (I can't publish it: Its commentaries are stolen from copyrighted material on the 'Net.)
 
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