Terminating employment

[PyramidHead]

Okay, so let's say my job sucks and I want to find a new one (not the most fantastic scenario imaginable).

What are my options, and what are the risks associated with each one?

Suppose I find an open position at another firm that pays better and is easier to stomach, I send them my resume, and with a little luck I get an interview. Right off the bat, I gotta lie to my boss to get time off for the interview. I can't show up to my current workplace dolled up in a suit, that would be too suspicious. So I fake a stomach virus and go to the interview, and the new company likes me. They say: show me some references.

Who is best equipped to comment on my skills? My current co-workers, naturally. This necessitates identifying people trustworthy enough to paint a rosy picture for my new employer, without spilling the beans to my boss that I'm looking for a way out. If they let something slip, there's a good chance it will make its way back to my boss eventually. And as it turns out, the people who are most sympathetic to my wanting to leave may also be competing for the very position I just interviewed for.

Holy shit, they made me an offer and I accepted it! What next? Of course I can't just start the next day. The unspoken rule is to provide at least 2 weeks' notice to give my crappy job time to find a replacement, or at least acclimate to my absence. This is a transition period that only benefits them, as I divvy up my projects among the other employees while wishing I could just leave. But maybe I just say fuck it and quit on the spot. Well, if one of my references wasn't perfectly tight-lipped, my current employer could easily find out what my new job was going to be (hell, it's basically assumed that departing employees should tell their boss where they are going, as a matter of professional courtesy) and warn them that I'm a loose cannon. That could jeopardize my career.

Alright, forget all that. Let's take the inverse situation, from the perspective of an employer. Guess what happens if they think I'm a shitty employee? As a reminder, these are the steps a risk-conscious worker must take when switching jobs:

• Fabricate a story to make it to the interview, which is conducted during business hours 99% of the time
• Pick out some confederates who are trustworthy enough to give him a good reference, but not so sympathetic that they also hate their job and are competing with him for this new position
• Provide enough notice for his current employer to restructure everybody else's list of tasks and prepare to find a replacement for him
• Leave on as good terms as possible in case this new job doesn't work out, or in case there is communication among the managers of both companies, etc.

Here's what every non-union job I have ever held does when they can't afford somebody, don't like their attitude, or genuinely have irresolvable problems with their job performance:

• Tell everybody else in the same department as the undesirable worker to leave early one day, leaving the prey alone in the savannah, shitcan the poor fucker and tell him to clean out his desk by 5PM.

Extending the situation, what does a new employer have to do to attract a replacement for the guy they want to fire? I've never worked in HR, but I've applied to many jobs. Here is what they DON'T have to do: provide references in the form of previous or current employees, conceal the fact that they are interviewing a new candidate from the rest of the company, tell the person they are thinking of firing that they can spend the next couple of weeks finding a new job, or tell prospective employees about their strengths and weaknesses as a workplace.

This is one reason we need unions. Yeah, there are times that unions may prevent a truly worthless employee from being fired without a lot of paperwork and months of languishing. But the deck is so stacked in favor of employers to begin with, and unions are pretty much the only way to push back against that state of affairs. I'll admit that I'm just speaking from an American perspective. I'm curious about what the situation is in other countries. Is it the norm for the average worker to sneak around like a ghost when looking for a new position, enlist just-miserable-enough coworkers for references, and give their current job ample notice, when none of those behaviors are expected from an employer in similar circumstances?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

If you don't drive into work, bring a suit nicely folded up in a bag so it gets as little wrinkled as possible and change in a public washroom on your way to the interview. If you do drive, keep it in your car and do the same. Tell your boss that you have a doctor/dentist appointment and try to schedule the interview as close to lunchtime or the end of the day as possible, so there's less unexplained time away from the office.

Many employers understand the dilemna of being able to get references from your current employer, so if you're still in touch with people from a previous job, those are usually sufficient. If not, then there's generally at least one person in the office whom you've worked within your time there who's cool or at least not a complete dick that would rat you out. Ask them quietly if they'd give you a reference and 99% of the time it doesn't go beyond them.

Always give the two weeks notice, or at least offer to give it. You want to be the one who's a professional and makes the transition to other people as easy as possible, even if the company you're leaving are unprofessional jerks. You never know when you're going to run into your former co-workers or bosses, so leave their last impression of you as a good one.

The decks are heavily stacked in favour of the employers and unions would make most things better.

 

[Bronzeage]

I'm a little confused. You want to know what to do when you have been offered a new job and you have accepted, right?

It's simple. You go into your supervisor's office, close the door and say, "I have accepted a position at another company. How long would you like me to remain here, in order to keep everything smooth?" Now, it's his problem.

 

[PyramidHead]

My intent wasn't necessarily to ask for advice, it was to show that certain behaviors are taken for granted when done by an employee but unheard of when done by an employer. Your case in point: have you ever heard of a manager saying to an unwanted employee, "We just hired someone to replace you. How long would you like to stay on the payroll to keep a roof over your head and food on the table while you look for another job?"

 

[KeepTalking]

My intent wasn't necessarily to ask for advice, it was to show that certain behaviors are taken for granted when done by an employee but unheard of when done by an employer. Your case in point: have you ever heard of a manager saying to an unwanted employee, "We just hired someone to replace you. How long would you like to stay on the payroll to keep a roof over your head and food on the table while you look for another job?"

Perhaps not as unheard of as you might think. At my last job, which I left about a month ago for greener pastures, a particularly worthless employee who had been there for 7 or 8 years was let go just before I quit. Though he did not have to work, he was kept on the payroll for a month after he was walked out the door, and given a large severance package, at least according to him. In my last job before that, I was laid off and asked to stay for another month after being given notice, as well as being given a severance package that would have kept me afloat for at least 6 more months, but I found another job long before that.

 

[coloradoatheist]

My intent wasn't necessarily to ask for advice, it was to show that certain behaviors are taken for granted when done by an employee but unheard of when done by an employer. Your case in point: have you ever heard of a manager saying to an unwanted employee, "We just hired someone to replace you. How long would you like to stay on the payroll to keep a roof over your head and food on the table while you look for another job?"

It happens once in a while...though not as common. But is common for employers to know employees will look elsewhere.

 

[fromderinside]

My intent wasn't necessarily to ask for advice, it was to show that certain behaviors are taken for granted when done by an employee but unheard of when done by an employer. Your case in point: have you ever heard of a manager saying to an unwanted employee, "We just hired someone to replace you. How long would you like to stay on the payroll to keep a roof over your head and food on the table while you look for another job?"

It happens once in a while...though not as common. But is common for employers to know employees will look elsewhere.

Then there's the big guys who go through cycles. At Boeing there are few persons laid off during good times. However, when a business crunch hits they're so big they are mandated a certain process with certain minimum payouts. I took advantage of one in 2002 to retire. Stayed on for about 10 months after I volunteered (yes) for layoff. Retraining came as did counselling even though I was throwing in from the work pitch. Its tough on those who are young though. They have just gotten used to a nice paycheck and benefits when they learn they're junior and are being laid off. Fair amount of vandalism from the union guys. Last time though we'd been through so many layoffs that the most junior machinist had fifteen years seniority. Us professional types, engineers, scientists, got very good treatment since Boeing knew most of would be back with the competition in a year or so.

 

[Bronzeage]

My intent wasn't necessarily to ask for advice, it was to show that certain behaviors are taken for granted when done by an employee but unheard of when done by an employer. Your case in point: have you ever heard of a manager saying to an unwanted employee, "We just hired someone to replace you. How long would you like to stay on the payroll to keep a roof over your head and food on the table while you look for another job?"

It's never happened in my experience. It really depends upon the nature of the work. When I worked on cars, a mechanic would offer to give notice, but the boss would always said it wasn't needed. Nobody wants a mechanic to work on a car when he knows he won't be there if it comes back with a problem. When an employee's and the employer's future interests no longer align, it's not a good idea to keep them around.

The higher up an employee is, the less people available to take over duties during a changeover. A middle level manager maybe responsible for making a schedule for the week or month. That sort of thing has done on time or chaos reigns. Some companies offer deals to an employee if they cooperate with training their replacement. In some companies, the employee doesn't know that's what is happening.

 

[beero1000]

My intent wasn't necessarily to ask for advice, it was to show that certain behaviors are taken for granted when done by an employee but unheard of when done by an employer. Your case in point: have you ever heard of a manager saying to an unwanted employee, "We just hired someone to replace you. How long would you like to stay on the payroll to keep a roof over your head and food on the table while you look for another job?"

Academia is a rare exception. If you are denied tenure, you generally are still employed for another year or so while you look for another job. Isn't quite the same thing as being fired, but still.

 

[Selsaral]

To me, offering two weeks to the old employer is to show the new employer that you're responsible, that you won't ditch them without word.


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[PyramidHead]

My intent wasn't necessarily to ask for advice, it was to show that certain behaviors are taken for granted when done by an employee but unheard of when done by an employer. Your case in point: have you ever heard of a manager saying to an unwanted employee, "We just hired someone to replace you. How long would you like to stay on the payroll to keep a roof over your head and food on the table while you look for another job?"

Academia is a rare exception. If you are denied tenure, you generally are still employed for another year or so while you look for another job. Isn't quite the same thing as being fired, but still.

Academia is usually a union thing, right? If it's a state college or something, not sure about private universities.

 

[Juma]

It has always amazed me that in US you can be forced to leave, and leave with almost no notice. Here in sweden there is a time limit of about 4-12 weeks (depending on how long you been at the job)

 

[Bomb#20]

My intent wasn't necessarily to ask for advice, it was to show that certain behaviors are taken for granted when done by an employee but unheard of when done by an employer. Your case in point: have you ever heard of a manager saying to an unwanted employee, "We just hired someone to replace you. How long would you like to stay on the payroll to keep a roof over your head and food on the table while you look for another job?"

That's pretty much what happened to my mom. "We've hired someone to replace you. But you can stay on the payroll for another month because we need you to train her to do your job." Under Canadian rules the union can reject people for membership and make you fire them.

 

[beero1000]

Academia is a rare exception. If you are denied tenure, you generally are still employed for another year or so while you look for another job. Isn't quite the same thing as being fired, but still.

Academia is usually a union thing, right? If it's a state college or something, not sure about private universities.

No, not a union thing, just the traditional tenure clock. The same holds for essentially all public and private universities and colleges.

 

[Togo]

I once got held for the full term of my notice period - 3 months. You don't want to annoy your old employer during that time because you're likely to run across them again, sooner or later.