The Bailout

[Politesse]

And all this is big business. According to CNN, the US mega-churches bring in on average about $6.5 million each year. They sell DVD’s, self-help books and receive big donations from their congregations. Some open ‘franchises’, or new churches, all over the world – promoting themselves in the same way a major brand would.

https://www.ecnmy.org/engage/mega-churches-making-mega-bucks/

Yeah, no profit being made.

View attachment 27599
Joel Osteen's mansion

View attachment 27600
TD Jakes mansion

Those are indeed typical cases.

 

[ZiprHead]

And all this is big business. According to CNN, the US mega-churches bring in on average about $6.5 million each year. They sell DVD’s, self-help books and receive big donations from their congregations. Some open ‘franchises’, or new churches, all over the world – promoting themselves in the same way a major brand would.

https://www.ecnmy.org/engage/mega-churches-making-mega-bucks/

Yeah, no profit being made.

View attachment 27599
Joel Osteen's mansion

View attachment 27600
TD Jakes mansion

Those are indeed typical cases.

Is the Vatican broke now?

 

[Harry Bosch]

More than 12,000 Catholic churches in the U.S. applied for PPP loans – and 9,000 got them

Tax the fucking churches, NOW!

So, the question becomes, who wasn't ​approved for one of these loans?

I got my PPP! Very happy to get it. To answer your question, ineligibles are people late on their child support, felons, and self employed.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And all this is big business. According to CNN, the US mega-churches bring in on average about $6.5 million each year. They sell DVD’s, self-help books and receive big donations from their congregations. Some open ‘franchises’, or new churches, all over the world – promoting themselves in the same way a major brand would.

https://www.ecnmy.org/engage/mega-churches-making-mega-bucks/

Yeah, no profit being made.

View attachment 27599
Joel Osteen's mansion

View attachment 27600
TD Jakes mansion

Is that money being paid to the pastor? That should be taxable income to the pastor, not the church.

Does the church own the mansion? Tax fraud.

Non-profits can take in money, they just don't have money in excess of business needs.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Non-profits can take in money, they just don't have money in excess of business needs.

well, if uour theology is prosperity gospel, then a 14-bathroom mansion from God is certainly a business need.

 

[jonatha]

Non-profits can take in money, they just don't have money in excess of business needs.

Cite?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Non-profits can take in money, they just don't have money in excess of business needs.

Cite?

Non profits generate revenue. But they are not taxed on their profits.

 

[jonatha]

Non-profits can take in money, they just don't have money in excess of business needs.

Cite?

Non profits generate revenue. But they are not taxed on their profits.

Yes.

I do not see how this is equivalent to "they just don't have money in excess of business needs."

 

[ZiprHead]

Non profits generate revenue. But they are not taxed on their profits.

Yes.

I do not see how this is equivalent to "they just don't have money in excess of business needs."

The non profit hospital system I worked for always tried to keep 365 days of operating expenses in the bank for future use. It was hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

[ZiprHead]

Congress Will Extend Unemployment Boost 'Over Our Dead Bodies,' Vows Lindsey Graham

Lindsey Marie Grahamtoinette says let them eat cake.

 

[ZiprHead]

The U.S. Response to Covid-19 Has Lavished Wealth on the Rich
While the pandemic ravages American workers, the federal government has orchestrated a monumental transfer of wealth from the bottom of the economic ladder to the top.

According to a recent report from the Institute for Policy Studies, America’s billionaires saw their wealth shoot up by $282 billion in just 23 days as the country was sheltering in lockdown. Overall, U.S. billionaire wealth grew by nearly 10% at the same time over 20 million people filed for unemployment, and by April 10 had passed $3.2 trillion—topping last year’s level.

To take just one example, Jeff Bezos, Amazon CEO and already the richest person in the world, saw his fortune inflate by $24 billion in the first three months of the year, a surge the report’s authors say is “unprecedented in the history of modern markets.” Meanwhile, his workers have staged a series of walkouts and other labor actions to protest a lack of basic workplace protections as warehouse employees have fallen ill with the virus, and some have died.

Such galling inequities written into the stimulus are just the tip of the iceberg. The true callousness of the approach can be seen most clearly in the corporate welfare at the heart of the relief effort. While often posed as a $500 billion fund for large companies, in fact, the CARES Act allocated over $4 trillion to corporate America, since the federal reserve can leverage the initial funding by a ratio of ten to one.

That fund is being overseen by Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, himself no stranger to corporate abuse and profiteering. Soon after signing the bill, Trump moved to undo independent oversight in the program. And the corporations receiving this funding will not be required to keep their workers employed, or even to limit executive compensation.

This aid will flow to some of the largest and most powerful companies in the country, which are also the ones with the most liquidity and therefore ability to withstand the economic impacts of the shutdown. And as we saw in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, bailing out large corporations with taxpayer money only increases their stranglehold over our economy.

Socialism for the rich. Rugged individualism for the poor.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The U.S. Response to Covid-19 Has Lavished Wealth on the Rich
While the pandemic ravages American workers, the federal government has orchestrated a monumental transfer of wealth from the bottom of the economic ladder to the top.

According to a recent report from the Institute for Policy Studies, America’s billionaires saw their wealth shoot up by $282 billion in just 23 days as the country was sheltering in lockdown. Overall, U.S. billionaire wealth grew by nearly 10% at the same time over 20 million people filed for unemployment, and by April 10 had passed $3.2 trillion—topping last year’s level.

To take just one example, Jeff Bezos, Amazon CEO and already the richest person in the world, saw his fortune inflate by $24 billion in the first three months of the year, a surge the report’s authors say is “unprecedented in the history of modern markets.” Meanwhile, his workers have staged a series of walkouts and other labor actions to protest a lack of basic workplace protections as warehouse employees have fallen ill with the virus, and some have died.

Such galling inequities written into the stimulus are just the tip of the iceberg. The true callousness of the approach can be seen most clearly in the corporate welfare at the heart of the relief effort. While often posed as a $500 billion fund for large companies, in fact, the CARES Act allocated over $4 trillion to corporate America, since the federal reserve can leverage the initial funding by a ratio of ten to one.

That fund is being overseen by Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, himself no stranger to corporate abuse and profiteering. Soon after signing the bill, Trump moved to undo independent oversight in the program. And the corporations receiving this funding will not be required to keep their workers employed, or even to limit executive compensation.

This aid will flow to some of the largest and most powerful companies in the country, which are also the ones with the most liquidity and therefore ability to withstand the economic impacts of the shutdown. And as we saw in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, bailing out large corporations with taxpayer money only increases their stranglehold over our economy.

Socialism for the rich. Rugged individualism for the poor.

Well, the PPP program was aimed at workers. Specific eligible uses are for wages for workers under $100,000 a year. Companies are only eligible for the funds if they retain their workers. If they lay off their workers, the PPP grant becomes a loan and must be paid back.

 

[ZiprHead]

The U.S. Response to Covid-19 Has Lavished Wealth on the Rich
While the pandemic ravages American workers, the federal government has orchestrated a monumental transfer of wealth from the bottom of the economic ladder to the top.





Socialism for the rich. Rugged individualism for the poor.

Well, the PPP program was aimed at workers. Specific eligible uses are for wages for workers under $100,000 a year. Companies are only eligible for the funds if they retain their workers. If they lay off their workers, the PPP grant becomes a loan and must be paid back.

And if you had read the article, they addressed that.

The Small Business Paycheck Protection Program, meanwhile, turned out to be a bust for actual small businesses. Of the original $350 billion allocated for these businesses in the CARES Act, over $243 million ended up going to large corporations. This includes the subsidizing of massive chains, luxury hotels and even Trump “megadonors” like Monty Bennett, chairman of Ashford Hospitality Trust, who Forbes says “is believed to have received at least $59 million.” As a result, only 5% of all small businesses were able to access those funds, and over 30 million are still struggling to receive relief.

 

[Harry Bosch]

And if you had read the article, they addressed that.

The Small Business Paycheck Protection Program, meanwhile, turned out to be a bust for actual small businesses. Of the original $350 billion allocated for these businesses in the CARES Act, over $243 million ended up going to large corporations. This includes the subsidizing of massive chains, luxury hotels and even Trump “megadonors” like Monty Bennett, chairman of Ashford Hospitality Trust, who Forbes says “is believed to have received at least $59 million.” As a result, only 5% of all small businesses were able to access those funds, and over 30 million are still struggling to receive relief.

I did read the article. It was garbage. Where is the source that only 5% of the recipients were small business? That's baloney. I'm a small business. I got PPP. Many of my friends got it as well. According to this source, NPR (hardly a right wing source), the average PPP loan was $79,000. That means that the average loan when to companies with monthly payroll of $31K. That's hardly big business.

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/04/850177240/not-so-small-businesses-continue-to-benefit-from-ppp-loans

The rest of the article was typical anti bank bashing. Not original. Faulty logic.

 

[ZiprHead]

And if you had read the article, they addressed that.

The Small Business Paycheck Protection Program, meanwhile, turned out to be a bust for actual small businesses. Of the original $350 billion allocated for these businesses in the CARES Act, over $243 million ended up going to large corporations. This includes the subsidizing of massive chains, luxury hotels and even Trump “megadonors” like Monty Bennett, chairman of Ashford Hospitality Trust, who Forbes says “is believed to have received at least $59 million.” As a result, only 5% of all small businesses were able to access those funds, and over 30 million are still struggling to receive relief.

I did read the article. It was garbage. Where is the source that only 5% of the recipients were small business? That's baloney. I'm a small business. I got PPP. Many of my friends got it as well. According to this source, NPR (hardly a right wing source), the average PPP loan was $79,000. That means that the average loan when to companies with monthly payroll of $31K. That's hardly big business.

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/04/850177240/not-so-small-businesses-continue-to-benefit-from-ppp-loans

The rest of the article was typical anti bank bashing. Not original. Faulty logic.

Wow, did you think I would not read your article. You're own link concludes there were huge problems in the ways the loans were issued. As for the bolded, it specifically says that figure you noted was for the second round of PPP and that the average for the first round was well over $200K.

Nothing in your article disputed anything said in the article I posted. That was a huge fail on your part.

Here’s The ENTIRE List Of Public Companies That Got Biggest PPP Loans

Here are the public companies that got coronavirus aid meant for small businesses

Many Public Companies That Got PPP Loans Had Lots In The Bank

 

[Harry Bosch]

I did read the article. It was garbage. Where is the source that only 5% of the recipients were small business? That's baloney. I'm a small business. I got PPP. Many of my friends got it as well. According to this source, NPR (hardly a right wing source), the average PPP loan was $79,000. That means that the average loan when to companies with monthly payroll of $31K. That's hardly big business.

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/04/850177240/not-so-small-businesses-continue-to-benefit-from-ppp-loans

The rest of the article was typical anti bank bashing. Not original. Faulty logic.

Wow, did you think I would not read your article. You're own link concludes there were huge problems in the ways the loans were issued. As for the bolded, it specifically says that figure you noted was for the second round of PPP and that the average for the first round was well over $200K.

Nothing in your article disputed anything said in the article I posted. That was a huge fail on your part.

Here’s The ENTIRE List Of Public Companies That Got Biggest PPP Loans

Here are the public companies that got coronavirus aid meant for small businesses

Many Public Companies That Got PPP Loans Had Lots In The Bank

Well, of course there was huge problems. The government created a first come first serve program and required the banks to deliver it in like two weeks! How could it have gone smooth! They passed the bill so fast that the rules changed every day. My banker, who's a friend of mine, also failed to get my PPP loan done in time. But his bank got it figured out, and we got our money in round 2. Why does it matter if a company got their funding in round one or two? But again, where is the evidence that 95% of the PPP recipients were large companies or publicly traded?

Yea, I'm never shocked when a government program has problems in the beginning. Especially one thrown together without clear rules and in such a rush.

According to the Wall Street Journal, "More than 100 public companies have received nearly $500 million in PPP funds, according to Footnoted, an information service focused on Securities and Exchange Commission filings. A Wall Street Journal report lists 103 public companies that got more than $380 million in PPP loans." Apr 25, 2020

Now, that sucks. But it's also a number that is far far less than 95%! I suck at math, but $500 million out of half a billion, is what, 2%?

 

[ZiprHead]

I did read the article. It was garbage. Where is the source that only 5% of the recipients were small business? That's baloney. I'm a small business. I got PPP. Many of my friends got it as well. According to this source, NPR (hardly a right wing source), the average PPP loan was $79,000. That means that the average loan when to companies with monthly payroll of $31K. That's hardly big business.

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/04/850177240/not-so-small-businesses-continue-to-benefit-from-ppp-loans

The rest of the article was typical anti bank bashing. Not original. Faulty logic.

Wow, did you think I would not read your article. You're own link concludes there were huge problems in the ways the loans were issued. As for the bolded, it specifically says that figure you noted was for the second round of PPP and that the average for the first round was well over $200K.

Nothing in your article disputed anything said in the article I posted. That was a huge fail on your part.

Here’s The ENTIRE List Of Public Companies That Got Biggest PPP Loans

Here are the public companies that got coronavirus aid meant for small businesses

Many Public Companies That Got PPP Loans Had Lots In The Bank

Well, of course there was huge problems. The government created a first come first serve program and required the banks to deliver it in like two weeks! How could it have gone smooth! They passed the bill so fast that the rules changed every day. My banker, who's a friend of mine, also failed to get my PPP loan done in time. But his bank got it figured out, and we got our money in round 2. Why does it matter if a company got their funding in round one or two? But again, where is the evidence that 95% of the PPP recipients were large companies or publicly traded?

Yea, I'm never shocked when a government program has problems in the beginning. Especially one thrown together without clear rules and in such a rush.

According to the Wall Street Journal, "More than 100 public companies have received nearly $500 million in PPP funds, according to Footnoted, an information service focused on Securities and Exchange Commission filings. A Wall Street Journal report lists 103 public companies that got more than $380 million in PPP loans." Apr 25, 2020

Now, that sucks. But it's also a number that is far far less than 95%! I suck at math, but $500 million out of half a billion, is what, 2%?

Where in the world did you get that 95% figure? Here is the paragraph again, and it you looked at it closely, it links to Forbes for confirmation.

The Small Business Paycheck Protection Program, meanwhile, turned out to be a bust for actual small businesses. Of the original $350 billion allocated for these businesses in the CARES Act, over $243 million ended up going to large corporations. This includes the subsidizing of massive chains, luxury hotels and even Trump “megadonors” like Monty Bennett, chairman of Ashford Hospitality Trust, who Forbes says “is believed to have received at least $59 million.” As a result, only 5% of all small businesses were able to access those funds, and over 30 million are still struggling to receive relief.

No one said 95% of the funds went to big business.

And I pointed out the differences between round one and round two that you oh so conveniently left out in your disingenuous first response to my OP.

Now you change your tune and acknowledge there were problems and those problems were conveniently in favor of the wealthy while poor small business owners got screwed. But you got yours so everything was champagne and strawberries. At least you changed your mind on that.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Well, of course there was huge problems. The government created a first come first serve program and required the banks to deliver it in like two weeks! How could it have gone smooth! They passed the bill so fast that the rules changed every day. My banker, who's a friend of mine, also failed to get my PPP loan done in time. But his bank got it figured out, and we got our money in round 2. Why does it matter if a company got their funding in round one or two? But again, where is the evidence that 95% of the PPP recipients were large companies or publicly traded?

Yea, I'm never shocked when a government program has problems in the beginning. Especially one thrown together without clear rules and in such a rush.

According to the Wall Street Journal, "More than 100 public companies have received nearly $500 million in PPP funds, according to Footnoted, an information service focused on Securities and Exchange Commission filings. A Wall Street Journal report lists 103 public companies that got more than $380 million in PPP loans." Apr 25, 2020

Now, that sucks. But it's also a number that is far far less than 95%! I suck at math, but $500 million out of half a billion, is what, 2%?

Where in the world did you get that 95% figure? Here is the paragraph again, and it you looked at it closely, it links to Forbes for confirmation.

The Small Business Paycheck Protection Program, meanwhile, turned out to be a bust for actual small businesses. Of the original $350 billion allocated for these businesses in the CARES Act, over $243 million ended up going to large corporations. This includes the subsidizing of massive chains, luxury hotels and even Trump “megadonors” like Monty Bennett, chairman of Ashford Hospitality Trust, who Forbes says “is believed to have received at least $59 million.” As a result, only 5% of all small businesses were able to access those funds, and over 30 million are still struggling to receive relief.

No one said 95% of the funds went to big business.

And I pointed out the differences between round one and round two that you oh so conveniently left out in your disingenuous first response to my OP.

Now you change your tune and acknowledge there were problems and those problems were conveniently in favor of the wealthy while poor small business owners got screwed. But you got yours so everything was champagne and strawberries. At least you changed your mind on that.

How did they get screwed? 2% of the recipients were large businesses. If the government had clamped down and prevented this, the 5% small businesses who got the funds might have increased to 5.02%! There wasn't a grand conspiracy here. The reason why so many small businesses didn't get in the first round was that not all banks were ready in the short time frame, and that the fund was too small. There is round 2 PPP funds available today. There are still funds available.

 

[ZiprHead]

Where in the world did you get that 95% figure? Here is the paragraph again, and it you looked at it closely, it links to Forbes for confirmation.



No one said 95% of the funds went to big business.

And I pointed out the differences between round one and round two that you oh so conveniently left out in your disingenuous first response to my OP.

Now you change your tune and acknowledge there were problems and those problems were conveniently in favor of the wealthy while poor small business owners got screwed. But you got yours so everything was champagne and strawberries. At least you changed your mind on that.

How did they get screwed? 2% of the recipients were large businesses. If the government had clamped down and prevented this, the 5% small businesses who got the funds might have increased to 5.02%! There wasn't a grand conspiracy here. The reason why so many small businesses didn't get in the first round was that not all banks were ready in the short time frame, and that the fund was too small. There is round 2 PPP funds available today. There are still funds available.

You forgot that those 2% of businesses took most of the money available. I suggest you check your bolded math again.

Of the original $350 billion allocated for these businesses in the CARES Act, over $243 million ended up going to large corporations.

 

[Harry Bosch]

You forgot that those 2% of businesses took most of the money available. I suggest you check your bolded math again.

Of the original $350 billion allocated for these businesses in the CARES Act, over $243 million ended up going to large corporations.

Buddy: you are incorrect. $243 million divided by 349 Billion is less than 1% of the total. Should the government have tried to prevent this. Sure. Perfection should always be the goal. But the vast majority of the PPP went to small business.