The Beast Revelation

[steve_bank]

On the contrary Lessans we are well aware of emotions.

Emotions like resistance to a mythical often harmful religious authoritarian conformity.

Need I say more?

A conformity that dare I say it is Un - American.

The Pope looks pathetic demanding an end to the war.

I'd say we very much get that religion is an emotional experience, not a logical reasoned experience.

 

[Learner]

human emotions are important to biblical understanding!!

Human emotions are provably a barrier to any genuine understanding.

This demonstrates what I was saying, when atheists dismiss (being oblivious) of the importance of human emotions - the key element to reading 'the bible and noting the psychology of it's truth claims'.

I don't dismiss the importance of human emotions; I dismiss those emotions as a means to knowlegde.

It escapes atheists simply because it would seem so simple. Ancient writings therefore are viewed as being so outdated that they don't realise, human psychology of people from back then still hasn't changed today!!

Human emotions interpreting biblical texts must seem to the atheist, "lacking (the illusion of) scientific sophistication" and may seem methodically boring to take as serious, I suppose in a manner of speaking.

No, they are just not a way to know anything. Nothing to do with sophistication, just epistemology.

Therefore if what you say is true, biblical understanding cannot be genuine.

Thanks for playing.

As irony would have it. Emotions are used in the technological modern world to determine if someone is telling the truth in a lie-detector test!

Lie detector tests are almost completely valueless, and are not permitted as evidence pretty much anywhere outside the USA. They don't work, except insofar as they scare the subject into telling the truth.

So, an example of the biblical concept from the viewpoint:
Jesus communicates in a language expressed as compassion.As its written, children naturally in their innocence understand and sense this (truthfulness)

Wait, is it compassion, or truthfulness?

These are NOT synonymous.

I mean children feel compassion as in trust.

They can differentiate between that and being abused.

better than a lot of the adults lost in worldly distractions, etc. We are to be 'be like children, to understand, and so on and so forth.

Children don't understand. Children are gullible, naïve, and easily fooled.

Ask Jimmy Saville, Jeffrey Epstein, or Donald Trump.

Children feel uncomfortable and do not like being abused!

Distrust sets in, and these victims see their abusers as liars and deceivers.

 

[bilby]

So, an example of the biblical concept from the viewpoint:
Jesus communicates in a language expressed as compassion.As its written, children naturally in their innocence understand and sense this (truthfulness)

Wait, is it compassion, or truthfulness?

These are NOT synonymous.

I mean children feel compassion as in trust.

Wait, is it compassion, or truthfulness, or trust?

None of these are synonyms.

They can differentiate between that and being abused.

Sometimes.

better than a lot of the adults lost in worldly distractions, etc. We are to be 'be like children, to understand, and so on and so forth.

Children don't understand. Children are gullible, naïve, and easily fooled.

Ask Jimmy Saville, Jeffrey Epstein, or Donald Trump.

Children feel uncomfortable

Sometimes.

and do not like being abused!

Indeed. But they often trust their abusers nonetheless, at least until it is too late.

Distrust sets in, and these victims see their abusers as liars and deceivers.

Eventually.

But their childish innocence and trust is not helpful to them in this; These traits are a hindrance to their discovering the truth.

Trust, faith, and innocence are not means to knowledge; They are, however, toe-holds for scammers, frauds, and abusers.

 

[DBT]

Human emotions have no bearing on what is true or false. Something is true or false regardless of how we may feel about it.

Human emotions have bearing significance in contrast to testimonies of individuals. The context is: determining the claims of people who witnessed events by what 'their' feelings were!

Belief has no bearing on whatever happens to be true or false.
Something is either true or false regardless of what we believe.

The same as the above.

If the claims are determined to be true by the analysis of the individual psyche then that counts as leading to evidence that they are telling the truth. Now the best case then you could come up with in this regard is to say these individuals were delusional, believing the events were real in their minds, in which case we'd have to argue further, and you'd have to demonstrate this as your counter argument of course.

Another argument direction would be to determine the conclusion these writers were con men or liars why you'd have to explain why.

As irony would have it. Psychological profiling is used to build a character profile of criminals which can lead to good results of predicting next moves.

Feelings, such as hope, fear, desire, tend to skew one's perspective, forming biases that are more likely to effect results than an objective, dispassionate study.

The world cares nothing about what we believe or feel.

The same as above

What do you mean by world?.

The physical world, the cosmos, the sun, moon, earth, geology, plants, animals, etc.

 

[Learner]

So, an example of the biblical concept from the viewpoint:
Jesus communicates in a language expressed as compassion.As its written, children naturally in their innocence understand and sense this (truthfulness)

Wait, is it compassion, or truthfulness?

These are NOT synonymous.

I mean children feel compassion as in trust.

Wait, is it compassion, or truthfulness, or trust?

None of these are synonyms.

It could contextually be all of them. The emphasis made was only concentrating on the idea that understanding Jesus and his preaching should be quite simple for minds that were not influenced or corrupted (yet). This is the theist paradigm, not yours. Nice try.

They can differentiate between that and being abused.

Sometimes.

The bible verse initially highlighted, was only concerned with using the mention of children synonymous to compassion was for a specific context description, used for a particular teaching. Again, it's a theist's paradigm which you'll not get into.

better than a lot of the adults lost in worldly distractions, etc. We are to be 'be like children, to understand, and so on and so forth.

Children don't understand. Children are gullible, naïve, and easily fooled.

Ask Jimmy Saville, Jeffrey Epstein, or Donald Trump.

Children feel uncomfortable

Sometimes.

Yes, but this is not meant for describing understanding. Nice try.

and do not like being abused!

Indeed. But they often trust their abusers nonetheless, at least until it is too late.

Which is beside the point again . This does not relate to understanding as initially mentioned.

Distrust sets in, and these victims see their abusers as liars and deceivers.

Eventually.

But their childish innocence and trust is not helpful to them in this; These traits are a hindrance to their discovering the truth.

See the above. The only mentioned part of children relating to a verse that it was concerned with was for understanding.

Children being abused was
NOT a demonstration for understanding. Nice try

Trust, faith, and innocence are not means to knowledge; They are, however, toe-holds for scammers, frauds, and abusers.

The previous response above , I also place here.

 

[steve_bank]

Matthew 18:3

To enter the kingdom of heaven be like children obeying god.

Unquestioning, obedient, devoted, and innocent.

All the interpretations of just one small passage.

Matthew 18:3 - The Greatest in the Kingdom

Truly I tell you, He said, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

biblehub.com

 

[Jarhyn]

Knowledge in it's entirety is NOT solely "calculated" through formulations in science

No, this is true. Much of it happens in engineering and (often random) combinitorics, and this is constructive math, not science.

scriptural meanings 'meant by the authors' seems to escape the atheists view for an argument

No, and this is where you also have a problem: by forming beliefs about what the authors meant by things, you again bias yourself.

You have no grounds to say that your belief about what they meant establishes that you know what they meant.

Then, I don't care entirely if I get it exactly as they meant it, because they meant it with the understanding of people 2000 years ago with language 2000 years less "useful".

"Knowledge" in it's entirety is to them, an argument that "consists entirely of formulated calculations of science".

No, it's more that knowledge is vulnerable to exposure as sophistry or ignorance or misplaced belief when it falls victim to logic in the presence of brute facts.

This is far wider than "formulated calculations of science".

human emotions is required as a key to understand Truth

Not as you seem to intend the idea to mean, no.

Human emotions often cloud the seeking of the truth as much as they do the other thing. I am a human and the fine structure of all my emotional impulses are aligned so as to seek understanding the truth, I still miss it almost as often as I reach for it, and I understand that many of my human emotions are only contained by learned skills and that seeking the truth involves understanding and realigning those emotions as much as anything else.

The problem with this is that you don't seem to understand the first thing about that.

Love makes everyone feel good

Spoken in a way that reveals someone who has never known true love.

Love does NOT make everyone feel good. It can feel good for brief moments, and those moments are worth all the rest, but the rest is still there.

Sometimes it makes us feel completelj miserable as much as it makes us cum, and it makes us complete.

Love is a lot of things. Suffering is one of those things that it is far more often than it is joyous.

Even the love I feel for everyone sometimes makes me cry. Typing that last sentence made me cry a bit, because I think about all the people I can't do anything for, and all the other people doing even less than even merely worrying how to do more and hoping they are in my path when I have the power to do more.