The beginning of the end?

[TV and credit cards]

Nikki Haley found that “mourn” is a synonym for “complain”, painted the Democrats with it and now every mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging Morlock on the internet is repeating it.

 

[Trausti]

I’m sorry for your loss.

 

[Politesse]

Iraq got lots of peace and stability.

Iraq has peace and stability? By what possible metric??

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It should be noted that Morlocks were the working class, so I don't know if the parallel is completely accurate.

And Nikki Haley, who managed to be her own person and one of the only to leave the Trump Admin better off than when she entered it... has gone full Trump.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Iraq got lots of peace and stability.

Iraq has peace and stability? By what possible metric??

If you look over the list again, you'll notice a pattern.

 

[Politesse]

Iraq got lots of peace and stability.

Iraq has peace and stability? By what possible metric??

If you look over the list again, you'll notice a pattern.

Ah, right.

 

[funinspace]

Our president unrestrained by congress is beginning ti wield militancy power like any dictator. It serves his image.

A few hours ago Iran retaliated with a missile attack on US assets. Who knows what haens next.

well maybe a tad premature...

Oil flow stops and economies may crash.

Or maybe just a beautiful recession...

 

[steve_bank]

Trump has said it explicitly. He says he does not need congressional approval to take military's action against Iran.

Ben Franklin thought it would only be 40 or 50 years for an authoritarian to emerge.

We run on precedents. If Trump is not reigned in by congress then for all practical purposes the constitution and checks and balances are gone.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Meh. Iran lobed some rockets. No Americans died. Iran can claimed it retaliated. Everyone moves on.

Exactly. We shouldn't respond. Iran had their temper tantrum and can claim to have retaliated, their leaders know the reality.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And liberals get to mourn the death of a terrorist. Everyone wins.

Quote posts or gtfo with this inflammatory bullshit.

Quoting posts would require that it be liberals here, he just said liberals.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I’m sorry for your loss.

Your post will not be tolerized!!

 

[fromderinside]

Seems to me that if we have a mission in Iraq and Iran in pique against our behavior against their transgressions of international civility deem it approvable to strike across borders in retaliation for our doing like wise to them that dropping the argument after they do no harm is appropriate.

After all they have rights to protect their interests as much as we think we do ours.

My problem with the above is it's not right for either of us to strike in a country outside our borders without permission from the country where the actions took place.

Neither Iran nor the US are giving consideration to the sovereignty of Iraq. This must be remedied by international sanctions from authorities of international commerce. Perhaps the world court a the behest of either Iraq or Israel, two nations that either have been violated or threatened by the actions of Iran and the US by recent activities.

If not international social order continues to crumble.

 

[RVonse]

As someone who voted for Trump, I was very dissapointed with him for expressly violating his campaign promise to get us out of the middle east. The US is a leading producer of oil now and renewable energy is about to replace it anyway. Why the hell are we spending any more time messing with the middle east?

And as I watched his televised explanations he sounded just like Elmer Fudd chasing Buggs Bunney. "This general was verrry baaaad! And he was going to do some verry verry baaad things"! Who the fuck cares? I dont.

The only good I can see coming out of this is Congress may finally get the balls to prevent the executive branch from overstepping their bounds. Only Congress should be declaring war and that has been forgotten by almost all the POTUS of my lifetime.

 

[funinspace]

Trump has said it explicitly. He says he does not need congressional approval to take military's action against Iran.

Ben Franklin thought it would only be 40 or 50 years for an authoritarian to emerge.

We run on precedents. If Trump is not reigned in by congress then for all practical purposes the constitution and checks and balances are gone.

Congress punted a long time ago, regarding restrictions on the POTUS attacking other nations. Pres. Obama went further than most with a 7 month sustained attack on Libya, without even the typical Congressional fig leaf of at least approving funding for the campaign.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Trump has said it explicitly. He says he does not need congressional approval to take military's action against Iran.

Ben Franklin thought it would only be 40 or 50 years for an authoritarian to emerge.

We run on precedents. If Trump is not reigned in by congress then for all practical purposes the constitution and checks and balances are gone.

Congress punted a long time ago, regarding restrictions on the POTUS attacking other nations. Pres. Obama went further than most with a 7 month sustained attack on Libya, without even the typical Congressional fig leaf of at least approving funding for the campaign.

Not quite. He did not get express approval, but argued it wasn’t necessary since the US involvement was UN mandated and transitioned (allegedly) into a support position to UN/NATO forces:

At the heart of the administration’s argument is the nature of the U.S. role in Libya, which has changed since Obama announced March 19 the start of operations meant to protect Libyan civilians from forces loyal to Gaddafi, who had threatened reprisals against the residents of the rebellious city of Benghazi.

After taking the lead in destroying Gaddafi’s air-defense capabilities in the early days, U.S. military commanders turned over day-to-day control of the operation to NATO. Obama declared at the start that no U.S. forces would serve on the ground in Libya, and he has maintained that position.

The bulk of the U.S. mission now involves providing aerial surveillance, targeting information, refueling capabilities, and other support for British, French and other NATO-member warplanes carrying out most of the airstrikes.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Trump has said it explicitly. He says he does not need congressional approval to take military's action against Iran.

Ben Franklin thought it would only be 40 or 50 years for an authoritarian to emerge.

We run on precedents. If Trump is not reigned in by congress then for all practical purposes the constitution and checks and balances are gone.

Congress punted a long time ago, regarding restrictions on the POTUS attacking other nations. Pres. Obama went further than most with a 7 month sustained attack on Libya, without even the typical Congressional fig leaf of at least approving funding for the campaign.

I don't remember the US military being notably involved for a seven month sustained attack in Libya.

 

[Gun Nut]

Like any dictator? Can you be more specific ? Pol Pot ? Stalin ? Hussein ?

He is being specific - the definition of the word is an absolute ruler who is able to effectively do what he wants. Specifically in a manner possible by any chosen dictator from the set of all dictators.

Well, that's not Trump.

What's not Trump? Trump isn't someone who behaves as though he is above the law? That's pretty blindingly stupid to think... or radically dishonest.. either way.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Meh. Iran lobed some rockets. No Americans died. Iran can claimed it retaliated. Everyone moves on.

Exactly. We shouldn't respond. Iran had their temper tantrum and can claim to have retaliated, their leaders know the reality.

The funny thing is if Trump launched missiles in response, you two would have supported it as well.

 

[funinspace]

Trump has said it explicitly. He says he does not need congressional approval to take military's action against Iran.

Ben Franklin thought it would only be 40 or 50 years for an authoritarian to emerge.

We run on precedents. If Trump is not reigned in by congress then for all practical purposes the constitution and checks and balances are gone.

Congress punted a long time ago, regarding restrictions on the POTUS attacking other nations. Pres. Obama went further than most with a 7 month sustained attack on Libya, without even the typical Congressional fig leaf of at least approving funding for the campaign.

I don't remember the US military being notably involved for a seven month sustained attack in Libya.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ameri...nt-dollar1-billion-on-covert-ops-helping-nato

But U.S. involvement went way beyond that. In all, the U.S. had flown by late August more than 5,300 missions, by Pentagon count. More than 1,200 of these were strike sorties against Libyan targets.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/04/us-dropped-76-bombs-libya/349265/

This Monday, March 28, President Obama defended his decision to join the allied forces in Libya and clarified that US involvement would be limited and supporting. By the next day, according to the Pentagon, "the United States had fired all but 7 of the 214 cruise missiles used in the conflict and flown 1,103 sorties compared to 669 for all other allies combined," Reuters reports. "It also dropped 455 of the first 600 bombs."

20 June, 2011:
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/world/africa/21powers.html

WASHINGTON — Since the United States handed control of the air war in Libya to NATO in early April, American warplanes have struck at Libyan air defenses about 60 times, and remotely operated drones have fired missiles at Libyan forces about 30 times, according to military officials.

The most recent strike from a piloted United States aircraft was on Saturday, and the most recent strike from an American drone was on Wednesday, the officials said.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I don't remember the US military being notably involved for a seven month sustained attack in Libya.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ameri...nt-dollar1-billion-on-covert-ops-helping-nato

But U.S. involvement went way beyond that. In all, the U.S. had flown by late August more than 5,300 missions, by Pentagon count. More than 1,200 of these were strike sorties against Libyan targets.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/04/us-dropped-76-bombs-libya/349265/

This Monday, March 28, President Obama defended his decision to join the allied forces in Libya and clarified that US involvement would be limited and supporting. By the next day, according to the Pentagon, "the United States had fired all but 7 of the 214 cruise missiles used in the conflict and flown 1,103 sorties compared to 669 for all other allies combined," Reuters reports. "It also dropped 455 of the first 600 bombs."

20 June, 2011:
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/world/africa/21powers.html

WASHINGTON — Since the United States handed control of the air war in Libya to NATO in early April, American warplanes have struck at Libyan air defenses about 60 times, and remotely operated drones have fired missiles at Libyan forces about 30 times, according to military officials.

The most recent strike from a piloted United States aircraft was on Saturday, and the most recent strike from an American drone was on Wednesday, the officials said.

So, control of the air war was turned over to NATO in early April. We are part of NATO. Evidently, NATO control directed our planes to strike from some point in mid-April to about mid-June. That's less than three months.

There is no distinction made in regard to the number of support/intelligence gathering "sorties" were among the 1,103, but it's comparable to the DailyBeast's 1,200 listed as "strike sorties," but no indication as to when those took place. Just that, by late August, we had flown a total of 5,300 missions (which meant the vast majority were NOT strike missions).

The Reuters article notes that we dropped 455 of the first 600 bombs.

At the UN's request, our forces were evidently used initially to establish air superiority--hence "the next day" (March 29nth presumably) we fired numerous cruise missiles and dropped the first bombs. And then Obama turned control over to NATO--once air superiority was established--in early April and our role dramatically decreased (to only 60 strike sorties and 30 drone strikes).

So it would seem that the majority of the 1,200 "strike sorties" were in fact undertaken in the initial phase along with the cruise missiles and bombs, which would make perfect sense in establishing air superiority.

What you posted supports the notion that Obama did in fact transition us to our involvement being "limited and supporting."