The Blame Game

[Elixir]

Yes, I know it's not objectively productive, but it is a bit cathartic anyhow. Give us your read/rant!

Mine:

* I hold all third party candidates harmless. They exist in any electoral environment where the concerns of a significant population segment are not addressed by major party candidates, and all calculations should account for that. Those who do not will inevitably suffer the effects of that particular bump in the electoral landscape.
* The main culprits in this debacle are the media. CNN, MSNBC, FOX and all the rest have been gleefully sucking at the Trump Teat for well over a year now, and laughing all the way to the bank. They conferred billions of dollars of constant free exposure upon the Orange Menace, and never thought once about the monster they were creating.
* Trump voters should also be held harmless (most of them anyhow). By and large, they were born stupid, brought up gullible and ignorant, and encouraged to blame the most convenient scapegoat for their condition as soon as one is offered (which is what Trump did). Further, they will be among the first to suffer under the regime they selected.
* Putin was key in leveraging the above fascination through wikileaks. He cannot be blamed per se (he was doing his job), but it would be prudent of us to be mindful of the fact that he was able to interfere in and sway the outcome of a US election.

Okay, thanks for listening. If anyone else wants to unload, please be my (TalkFreethought's) guest.
Love you guys & gals, BTW.

 

[LordKiran]

You know we can sit here and play the blame game all we want, but what it comes down to is that HRC and the dems failed to make their case where Trump succeeded. That's really all there is to it.

You can blame third parties based on extenuating circumstances if you want, but at the end of the day this is what it comes down to. Hillary lost and it's ultimately her fault.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I think all the Democrats should come together and blame violent video games because railing against irrelevant non-issues is a lot easier than doing the hard work of engaging in self-reflection and making changes as a result of it.

 

[Terrell]

I think all the Democrats should come together and blame violent video games because railing against irrelevant non-issues is a lot easier than doing the hard work of engaging in self-reflection and making changes as a result of it.

Yeah, not to mention sexy women in M rated games. They're enjoyed by straight men after all.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

We kept hearing that "Hillary is lucky to be running against Trump". Well, guess what? The reverse was actually the case. A candidate devoid of personality, not trusted by much of the electorate even before the campaign started, and carrying as much baggage as a Trump Tower bellhop desperate to supplement his minimum wage paycheck.

No, I don't think Sanders would have done any better. But the blame lies right at the top. Republicans were more excited about their shit sandwich than Democrats were about theirs.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

We kept hearing that "Hillary is lucky to be running against Trump". Well, guess what? The reverse was actually the case. A candidate devoid of personality, not trusted by much of the electorate even before the campaign started, and carrying as much baggage as a Trump Tower bellhop desperate to supplement his minimum wage paycheck.

Except that can't really be it because neither was trusted. Heck, only 1 in 3 thought that Trump was qualified to be President, yet a quarter of those who thought he wasn't... VOTED FOR HIM!!!

No, I don't think Sanders would have done any better. But the blame lies right at the top. Republicans were more excited about their shit sandwich than Democrats were about theirs.

People voted for Trump. I blame the people that voted for Trump. The Family Values assholes, the bring back the factory nimwits, the be responsible for your own actions people. They all voted against their own values.

Also, Clinton still won the damn popular vote. The mistake I think, was leaving the Midwest. Fuck Arizona, fuck Georgia. Make the blue states blue-er and win the election.

 

[ronburgundy]

You know we can sit here and play the blame game all we want, but what it comes down to is that HRC and the dems failed to make their case where Trump succeeded. That's really all there is to it.

You can blame third parties based on extenuating circumstances if you want, but at the end of the day this is what it comes down to. Hillary lost and it's ultimately her fault.

But almost all of Trumps case was lies, so that doesn't suggest that HRC could have done anything but lie better, more often than she did.

The Trump and RNC lies, misdirections, and appeal to hatred and bigotry are what got Trump close enough that it would come down to something like turnout or last minute blips.

A major last minute blip was the help Trump was given by the not-so-coincidentally GOP loyalist, Comey, whose conveniently timed propaganda strategy manipulated voters, and only after over 30% of the swing state votes were already cast during early voting did he say "oops, never mind".

The polls showed that Comey's initial announcement impacted many voters. Thus, Comey alone was more than enough to have shifted the tiny total of 50k votes that lost Hillary PA, MI, and WI, which are what lost her the election.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Also, Clinton still won the damn popular vote. The mistake I think, was leaving the Midwest. Fuck Arizona, fuck Georgia. Make the blue states blue-er and win the election.

She won California and New York by a combined 4 million votes. That didn't get her any bonus EV's, so yeah, maybe she should have been chasing those other states.

 

[TSwizzle]

I regret not voting for Trump.

 

[Trausti]

I regret not voting for Trump.

Perhaps regret you didn't take take advantage of the market earlier.

Stocks leap as investors process Trump win; Dow climbs 257

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2016/11/09/global-markets-tailspin-trump-victory-declared/93531114/

 

[TSwizzle]

Perhaps regret you didn't take take advantage of the market earlier.

Actually, I did do some trading earlier

 

[Ford]

There sure is a lot to go around, isn't there?

I put a lot of the share on the Grand Old Party in all their glorious wings. The Establishment "Just Give it to Another Bush" wing for not realizing that Jeb! was in fact a much worse candidate than George W. The Tea Party "Ted Cruz is Charismatic...no seriously!" wing for trying to be the bull in a china shop when there was a larger and more nasty bull going around breaking things. The Evangelical wing for not even trying (someone wake up Dr. Carson!). And of course the few remaining old guard sane conservatives who - as they've been doing for years - sat on the sidelines and complained very quietly.

Unlike last time around, there won't be an attempt at an "autopsy." The GOP basically said "fuck it, we might as well support Trump" after he took their nomination, and now that they've got the White House and Congress, they won't try to repeat even that sad attempt at self-reflection. Trump's gold-plated veto pen will remain unused up until and if the Democrats take back Congress.


Now about those Democrats. How on earth could you have fucked this one up? You had the demographics on your side! An outgoing President with great approval ratings! A game show host for an opponent! This should have been a cakewalk. Just like 2012 should have been a cakewalk for the GOP. They picked Mitt Romney. You picked Hillary. There was this other guy running, and like Trump he came from outside the party with a plan to really shake things up. Instead of latching onto that crazy-haired freight train, you - or at least 3 million of you - didn't want to feel the Bern. He was a one time phenomenon. Not gonna run again. But all those crazy kids who went to the rallies? They're maybe still a little energized. Disappointed? Sure. The Democrats have an opportunity to make the Bernie supporters the core of their new generation. Take them and teach them the organization at get out the vote operation that led to Bernie losing the nomination.


The media? You can't blame the media without blaming the consumers of the media. The consumers saw a giant orange candidate and went "squeee!!!" collectively. The media saw the reaction and went "$$$$!!!" If all the mainstream media had refused to cover Cheeto Jesus, the masses would have gone to the outlets that did cover him. You can dumb down television to get more viewers, but it doesn't work the other way around.

Those viewers didn't just drive the media coverage. They drove to the polls yesterday and voted in droves. They (or at least enough of them) passionately wanted to have the Presidency become a 4-year long reality show. Bread and circuses. Bread and circuses.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I got 8 targets to blame:

1. Hillary Herself for being a poor candidate linking herself to special interests, big money and insider pay to play politics.
2. Hillary Herself for being a poor candidate for having a flat affect and shrill voice and being generally unlikable.
3. Hillary's slogan "I'm with Her" playing directly into her image as self entitled and elitist. I agree Trump should have retorted "I'm With You"
4. Years of republicans prepping the groundwork for Trump, who took it over the top
5. The regressive left and political correctness making anyone who disagrees with them afraid to speak for fear of being branded "racist"
6. Actual racism
7. Simplicity of words and projection of strength by Trump, who was able to make himself look like a good businessman to many.
8. A really weak field of republican competitors aside from Trump. Hillary may have stood a chance against a republican seen as an insider

 

[prideandfall]

You know we can sit here and play the blame game all we want, but what it comes down to is that HRC and the dems failed to make their case where Trump succeeded. That's really all there is to it.

You can blame third parties based on extenuating circumstances if you want, but at the end of the day this is what it comes down to. Hillary lost and it's ultimately her fault.

i completely disagree here.

here's been the usual gamut of "democrats are out of touch" and "hillary ran a poor campaign" and "the left isn't speaking to the fears of the voters" and it's like... the fears of the voters are fucking stupid. they SHOULDN'T pander to that.
the democrats are the ones who show up with reasonable solutions to complex problems without pretending it's a miracle cure and who tackle complicated issues like adults, while the republicans just shit their pants and then shit in your pants and then tell you that herbalife is going to change your destiny... and it's the democrat's fault that most people pick herbalife?

the blame here is (as it always is) squarely on the literal, physical, mental retardation of the US populace.

 

[LordKiran]

You know we can sit here and play the blame game all we want, but what it comes down to is that HRC and the dems failed to make their case where Trump succeeded. That's really all there is to it.

You can blame third parties based on extenuating circumstances if you want, but at the end of the day this is what it comes down to. Hillary lost and it's ultimately her fault.

i completely disagree here.

here's been the usual gamut of "democrats are out of touch" and "hillary ran a poor campaign" and "the left isn't speaking to the fears of the voters" and it's like... the fears of the voters are fucking stupid. they SHOULDN'T pander to that.
the democrats are the ones who show up with reasonable solutions to complex problems without pretending it's a miracle cure and who tackle complicated issues like adults, while the republicans just shit their pants and then shit in your pants and then tell you that herbalife is going to change your destiny... and it's the democrat's fault that most people pick herbalife?

the blame here is (as it always is) squarely on the literal, physical, mental retardation of the US populace.

When you tie yourself to an organization that cheated it's voter base out of a candidate (Even if that may or may not have ultimately been unnecessary) you cannot then expect those voters to support you. People don't like being told what to do, and after decades of being told "No you have to compromise your platform to actually stand a chance in the election" to then have that party actively undermine your goals is galling regardless of whether said candidate actually stood a chance. (Which is debatable)

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The media? You can't blame the media without blaming the consumers of the media. The consumers saw a giant orange candidate and went "squeee!!!" collectively. The media saw the reaction and went "$$$$!!!" If all the mainstream media had refused to cover Cheeto Jesus, the masses would have gone to the outlets that did cover him. You can dumb down television to get more viewers, but it doesn't work the other way around.

Those viewers didn't just drive the media coverage. They drove to the polls yesterday and voted in droves. They (or at least enough of them) passionately wanted to have the Presidency become a 4-year long reality show. Bread and circuses. Bread and circuses.

This is the crucial key. Clinton couldn't have performed better in the Debates. Trump looked like a fucking asshole. Clinton had policies, Trump had moods... and a temper.

Didn't matter. The people wanted change. The people are fucking idiots.

 

[Jayjay]

Perhaps regret you didn't take take advantage of the market earlier.

Actually, I did do some trading earlier

I bet on the markets to take a nosedive and lost the bet. Fucking Trump, first he gets elected and then doesn't crash the market? What is this bullshit?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You know we can sit here and play the blame game all we want, but what it comes down to is that HRC and the dems failed to make their case where Trump succeeded. That's really all there is to it.

You can blame third parties based on extenuating circumstances if you want, but at the end of the day this is what it comes down to. Hillary lost and it's ultimately her fault.

i completely disagree here.

here's been the usual gamut of "democrats are out of touch" and "hillary ran a poor campaign" and "the left isn't speaking to the fears of the voters" and it's like... the fears of the voters are fucking stupid. they SHOULDN'T pander to that.
the democrats are the ones who show up with reasonable solutions to complex problems without pretending it's a miracle cure and who tackle complicated issues like adults, while the republicans just shit their pants and then shit in your pants and then tell you that herbalife is going to change your destiny... and it's the democrat's fault that most people pick herbalife?

the blame here is (as it always is) squarely on the literal, physical, mental retardation of the US populace.

The '04 election stung because Iraq was out of hand. W lied about Social Security and the budget. But it didn't matter. I wondered what people were thinking.

And this year, Jack and Beanstalk level smack your forehead shit. I wouldn't buy anything from a salesman who used the same type of pitch as Trump. That is when normal people should have bells and whistles going off. But the people just had to have those magic beans! Because magic is possible you know. US debt gone in 8 years.... magic. Trillions of private investment in our public infrastructure... magic. Wipe ISIS from the face of the Earth... magic.

God damn magic beans.

 

[skepticalbip]

I blame it on the fucking democratic process of the people being allowed to select their government officials. Why the hell is anyone being legally allowed to vote for people I don't want in office. Anyone who votes for someone who I don't approve of is obviously an idiot so shouldn't be allowed to vote.

 

[prideandfall]

When you tie yourself to an organization that cheated it's voter base out of a candidate (Even if that may or may not have ultimately been unnecessary) you cannot then expect those voters to support you.

why not? the US population funneled its political system into a 2 party process, and then further divided those two parties into one at least trying to be a governing agency, and the other being a blatant ponzi scheme with a jesus ornament on top.
like it or not this is the reality of the US political system, and no amount of pearl-clutching or dramatic speeches is going to change that reality.

now i agree in a general and abstract sense that in an ideal world a political party would need to represent the interests of a niche group in order to garner their support, but that world doesn't exist and pretending like it does is a fantasy that both denies reality and makes you incapable of working within it.

People don't like being told what to do, and after decades of being told "No you have to compromise your platform to actually stand a chance in the election" to then have that party actively undermine your goals is galling regardless of whether said candidate actually stood a chance. (Which is debatable)

which is irrelevant, because this isn't about expressing your passion for ideologically sound campaign goals vs. compromising your core principles for the sake of political theater, this is about having the leading political organization in the US be one that generally attempts to govern a large and prosperous country in a way that allows everyone to go prosper vs. trying to turn the US into a patriarchal theocratic oligarchy.

the dems are weak and stupid and ineffectual on a lot of things.
the republicans are pure unmitigated batshit fucking lunacy.
pretending like you're wearied at holding your nose over the political disappointment of democratic leftism doesn't have the consequence of putting a hate-cheeto into the office of the president isn't a delusional that people get to have.

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I blame it on the fucking democratic process of the people being allowed to select their government officials. Why the hell is anyone being legally allowed to vote for people I don't want in office. Anyone who votes for someone who I don't approve of is obviously an idiot so shouldn't be allowed to vote.

because pretending that mentality is in any way relevant to the very real truth of the state of governmental politics in the US is totally helpful.