The Bones of St. Mark

[SLD]

OK, this is the cathedral of Saint Mark In Venice. Under the altar are the bones of the gospel writer Mark, the patron Saint of Venice. They were brought to Venice from Alexandria at some time during the crusades. I think that’s what the tour guide said. How did they know it was him? I wonder if that’s what the guy in the souk said to them?

But I also notice that all around Venice are statues and paintings to the old gods, including Mars, Poseidon, and Zeus. Guess they were hedging their bets.

 

[Politesse]

The story goes that a Venetian fleet was waiting out a storm at the Muslim port of Alexandria. Two of the crew disembarked to pay their respects at the shrine of St Mark, and were met by its priest and caretaker who enjoined them to remove the relics out of fear that increasing religious hostilities in the city were endangering their wellbeing. Many miraculous events attended the removal, including the appearance of Mark himself over the waters, calming a storm that would otherwise have capsized the fleet. Meaningless to you, I'm sure! But in the early medieval mindset, the association of miracles with a relic was better proof of authenticity than any bill of sale could ever be.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Just like that song by Imagine Dragons...

I I I,
no way those are Mark's bones,
...

 

[bilby]

The story goes that a Venetian fleet was waiting out a storm at the Muslim port of Alexandria. Two of the crew disembarked to pay their respects at the shrine of St Mark, and were met by its priest and caretaker who enjoined them to remove the relics out of fear that increasing religious hostilities in the city were endangering their wellbeing. Many miraculous events attended the removal, including the appearance of Mark himself over the waters, calming a storm that would otherwise have capsized the fleet. Meaningless to you, I'm sure! But in the early medieval mindset, the association of miracles with a relic was better proof of authenticity than any bill of sale could ever be.

I understand that the caretaker offered to sell them Mark's bones, but they couldn't afford the price he wanted; After some haggling, they paid a smaller sum for a smaller skeleton, which was that of Mark when he was a young boy.

 

[steve_bank]

When I was a kid we had a crucifix with a small piece of bone from an alleged saint insige a small window so you could se it.

Those kinds of things were common, and palpably a lot of fraud. The RCC has a very long list of saints to whom miracles are attributed.

 

[Politesse]

The story goes that a Venetian fleet was waiting out a storm at the Muslim port of Alexandria. Two of the crew disembarked to pay their respects at the shrine of St Mark, and were met by its priest and caretaker who enjoined them to remove the relics out of fear that increasing religious hostilities in the city were endangering their wellbeing. Many miraculous events attended the removal, including the appearance of Mark himself over the waters, calming a storm that would otherwise have capsized the fleet. Meaningless to you, I'm sure! But in the early medieval mindset, the association of miracles with a relic was better proof of authenticity than any bill of sale could ever be.

I understand that the caretaker offered to sell them Mark's bones, but they couldn't afford the price he wanted; After some haggling, they paid a smaller sum for a smaller skeleton, which was that of Mark when he was a young boy.

That somehow seems even less credible than the official story... quite an accomplishment, considering!

 

[bilby]

I understand that there are enough pieces of the one true cross in Catholic churches throughout Europe to make at least a dozen crosses large enough to crucify an adult male.

Which is doubly impressive when you realise that most such relics are just a few splinters of wood.

 

[steve_bank]

Wel, the popes have claimed abosolte rightness for over 1500 years.

I was taught that in 50s grade school. When the pope speaks from 'the chair of St Peter' the pope speaks the word of god.

 

[bilby]

Well papal infallibility was something I was very skeptical about, until I realised that it's claimed by the Pope himself, and he's apparently infallible, so we should be able to implicitly trust his claims.

 

[Politesse]

Wel, the popes have claimed abosolte rightness for over 1500 years.

I was taught that in 50s grade school. When the pope speaks from 'the chair of St Peter' the pope speaks the word of god.

1950s schoolrooms might be a slightly dubious source of information about the world. While the Catholic church does claim that the doctrine of ex cathedra papal infallibility was of ancient precedent, they can present no convincing evidence of this. As official dogma, it is no older than 1869, and it has only been formally invoked once. In 1950, so your parochial school may have had its reasons for invoking the supposed antiquity of the law.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

But in the early medieval mindset, the association of miracles with a relic was better proof of authenticity than any bill of sale could ever be.

In other words a sucker is born every minute.

Lots of catholics still live in the medieval mindset. The church I was indoctrinated into as a kid had a bit of bone from Saint Mathias under the altar. Can't remember any miracles happening. When the church shut down I assume they removed the talisman. They get these things thru the Vatican for a price I assume. I'm certain they're legit.

There was a statue in the vestibule that had a skull at its feet. We'd always do the Three Stooges on the eye sockets as we walked in.

 

[Politesse]

But in the early medieval mindset, the association of miracles with a relic was better proof of authenticity than any bill of sale could ever be.

In other words a sucker is born every minute.

Lots of catholics still live in the medieval mindset. The church I was indoctrinated into as a kid had a bit of bone from Saint Mathias under the altar. Can't remember any miracles happening. When the church shut down I assume they removed the talisman. They get these things thru the Vatican for a price I assume. I'm certain they're legit.

There was a statue in the vestibule that had a skull at its feet. We'd always do the Three Stooges on the eye sockets as we walked in.

No, you cannot buy or sell a consecrated relic. Not from the mother Church at least. You can of course buy anything you can afford on the antiquities black market.

But yes, belief in the power of Saint's relics, miracles, and the rest is as hearty as it has ever been. It's the level of civil participation with all of it that changes over the centuries.

 

[steve_bank]

How can I get holy water?

If you're not comfortable using holy water that you blessed yourself, go to a priest in your parish and ask for some. Some churches also have a holy water fount where you can fill up a container to take home with you.

I grew up with St Chrtopher medalions.