• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

The case of Southern Italy

 
 
 
Axulus

Axulus

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
4,686
Location
Hallandale, FL
Basic Beliefs
Right leaning skeptic
In one important respect southern Italy is different from Greece. Like eastern Germany, southern Italy is part of a larger and more prosperous fiscal union. For many decades, Italy has been doing the things that American progressives would recommend, pouring lots of fiscal stimulus into the south, to build up the economy. But nothing seems to work. Indeed from Greece to Italy to southern Iberia, the entire southern tier of Europe is doing quite poorly. But why? And what can America learn from the failure of Italian policies aimed at boosting the mezzogiorno?
American progressives will sometimes argue that we have much to learn from the successful welfare states in northern Europe. Perhaps that's true. But I'd have a bit more confidence in that claim if they could explain what we have to learn from the failed welfare states in southern Europe. Indeed I'd have more confidence in progressive ideas if they even had an explanation for the failed welfare states of southern Europe. But I don't ever recall reading a progressive explanation. Indeed the only explanations I've ever read are conservative explanations, tied to cultural differences.

PS. The mezzogiorno has roughly 1/3 of Italy's 60 million people, making it almost twice as populous as Greece. In absolute terms, incomes there (17,200 euros GDP per person in 2014) are far lower than among American blacks or Hispanics. In contrast, GDP per person in northern Italy was about 31,500 euros in 2014. And while the gap between eastern and western Germany is narrowing, the gap in Italy is widening. Why?
Click to expand...

http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2015/06/europes_soft_un.html
 
Axulus said:
In one important respect southern Italy is different from Greece. Like eastern Germany, southern Italy is part of a larger and more prosperous fiscal union. For many decades, Italy has been doing the things that American progressives would recommend, pouring lots of fiscal stimulus into the south, to build up the economy. But nothing seems to work. Indeed from Greece to Italy to southern Iberia, the entire southern tier of Europe is doing quite poorly. But why? And what can America learn from the failure of Italian policies aimed at boosting the mezzogiorno?
American progressives will sometimes argue that we have much to learn from the successful welfare states in northern Europe. Perhaps that's true. But I'd have a bit more confidence in that claim if they could explain what we have to learn from the failed welfare states in southern Europe. Indeed I'd have more confidence in progressive ideas if they even had an explanation for the failed welfare states of southern Europe. But I don't ever recall reading a progressive explanation. Indeed the only explanations I've ever read are conservative explanations, tied to cultural differences.

PS. The mezzogiorno has roughly 1/3 of Italy's 60 million people, making it almost twice as populous as Greece. In absolute terms, incomes there (17,200 euros GDP per person in 2014) are far lower than among American blacks or Hispanics. In contrast, GDP per person in northern Italy was about 31,500 euros in 2014. And while the gap between eastern and western Germany is narrowing, the gap in Italy is widening. Why?
Click to expand...

http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2015/06/europes_soft_un.html
Click to expand...

If Americans want to learn about economic failure in southern states that need constant fiscal stimulus, funded by the more prosperous north, to prop them up, then they don't need to go to Europe to see it. :confused2:
 
bilby said:
Axulus said:
http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2015/06/europes_soft_un.html
Click to expand...

If Americans want to learn about economic failure in southern states that need constant fiscal stimulus, funded by the more prosperous north, to prop them up, then they don't need to go to Europe to see it. :confused2:
Click to expand...

Except the gap between the northern and southern states isn't widening. The gap has been there throughout history and goes up and down within a narrow range. However, the gap between southern and northern Europe grows ever larger.

And what are the lessons that can be learned from the failure of pouring lots of fiscal stimulus into the south to build up these economies?
 
What is a national government supposed to do when there are states or regions within the nation that are not performing economically?
 
Doesn't Italy's southern half have a more provincial good-ol boy network based on romantic notions of honor?
 
I am puzzled by the OP - what makes the southern part of Italy a "failed welfare state"? In any federation of regions, there are economic powerhouses and economic losers. Someone brought up the example of many of the red states in the USA which still continue to be net recipients of federal largesse.

All the Italians I know are from or live in the northern part of Italy. To a person, they have a disdain for the southern regions as being "backwards" in terms of social structures and very organized crime.
 
Cursory internet research suggests that education funding in the south of Italy was next to nothing for a really long time while the North was funded well. More recently the funding is equal across the country but apparently corruption and misallocation of funds is still a big issue in the south.

This could explain some of the economic difference between North and South. But really I have never researched the difference between North and South until now.

Other things I learned is that there are more racists in the north, there is better food in the south, the south is more religious, Southerners are more "hospitable" and sexist.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom