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The Christ Myth Theory

 
 
 
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Jacob Berman and Godless engineer debated the historicity of Jesus tonight regarding Paul and other things:



I'm mentioning this because the passage in Paul of The Jews killing Jesus (which I first talked about following Benjamin White HERE) came up, as well as Paul's claim that the archons of this aion (rulers of this age) killed Jesus (which I look at in my mythicism essay), probably meaning the evil spirits controlling the rulers, like the gospels saying Satan entered Judas. This must be the case because for Paul the rulers who killed Jesus were evil, and Paul elsewhere says we should obey our human leaders because they are good and chosen by God (Romans 13:1-7). Of course, these good leaders can do evil, but this is because they are under the influence of evil spiritual forces. This is why Christ indwelling in you and possessing you as a spirit is so important because it sanctifies and purges you of evil influence. In other words, the Romans under evil influence (e.g., Pilate denies Jesus justice and executes him because it would be more of a nuisance to release him) killed Jesus, and as Matthew says this was orchestrated by the Jewish high council, and so the blood was also on the hands of the Jews (Matthew 27:25). Jesus's death in Mark is a literary pair with the humiliating unjust death of John the Baptist, just as Jesus's death in Luke-Acts is a literary pair with forgiving Stephen's death.

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1Heidegger1! said:
... Personally, I'm not persuaded by the Marcion Priority argument and find Dennis MacDonald persuasive on the idea that Marcion abridged Luke: MEDIA=youtube : ogHqVFbc0qM ... I think Paul's idea that the Jews killed Jesus is attested to in Mark's reception history of Paul.

Pauline expert Benjamin White disagrees with the idea that "The Jews Killed Jesus" passage is inauthentic and does not find reason to dismiss it as an interpolation. Paul seems to be a first century apocalyptic Jew navigating through other Jews like the pharisees, Essenes, he says he is not of the super apostle Christ group, etc., and we know from the Dead Sea Scrolls these groups were always going after one another as to who the true people of God are. ...
Click to expand...

Thanks, 1Heidegger! I've become interested in the chronology of the N.T. writings "through the back door" -- the historicity controversy.

But I have more questions than answers. One can see that Luke and Matthew accessed Q-Source independently, and that Luke was apparently less fluent in Aramaic. But why does early Mark give scant attention to the Resurrection myth which is so central to other writings? And what about claims that Marcion's Gospel was one of the earliest?

The video you linked to is helpful, but I'm sure you noticed that just watching it is a chore: The video has segments of silence while MacDonald's feed cuts out, for starters.

It would be nice to see a nice scholarly summary on the chronology of the Gospel writings. Scholars focus on interesting little details, but I'd be happier with a brief summary of conclusions and any top-level controversies. Help?
 
Last time I looked a bit at the Berman/Godless Engineer debate about Paul’s claim that Jesus was killed by the archons of this aion (rulers of this age), and this probably reflected the demonic spirits influencing Pilate and the Jews (eg., the crowd, the supreme council) against Jesus. This follows the same idea as when the gospels say Satan entered Judas.

Paul thought he was the prophesied one the Old Testament talked about who would bring the Jewish God to the gentiles and then the end would come. He says, though, that Satan was hindering him in his mission (1 Thess 2:18). Paul’s experience shows that Satan can hinder Christians in many ways, including: Tempting people to sin, Accusing people, Trying to outwit and deceive people, and Ensnaring people. We see the example Paul gives of the super apostles who were converting his followers with another gospel. Scripture says when the word is sewn into a new believer, the devil comes to steal it away (Mark 4:15).

Scripture talks about demonic influencers: e.g., the Prince of Persia, the Prince of the Air, the God of this world – meaning Satan. The Prince of Persia from Daniel chapter 10, for instance, refers to a spiritual entity who pulled the strings behind the Persian empire that ruled the Jews. Daniel 10 reveals that Satan was working behind the scenes to raise up a demonic prince who would pull the strings of the earthly kings to come. We read “Our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms” (Ephesians 6:12). In what sense was he a ruler? Did he rule a kingdom on earth with a physical demonic army like Sauron in Lord of the Rings? No, he was influencing people to go against God’s ways, like with the corrupt trial of Jesus. Satan was synonymous with going against God’s will, like when Jesus said to Peter’s contrary message “get behind me Satan (Matt 16:23),” or Jesus responding to Satan’s misrepresentation of God’s word during the temptations: “Don’t test God (Matt 4; Luke 4:8).”
 
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