The class war in American politics is over. The rich won.

[untermensche]

Yes. All economic gains are going to a small amount of people.

Thus their taxes are going up. But not as much as their wealth is going up.

Based on what data? The tax code is the most progressive it has been in decades and, once again, this is before the 2013 tax increases went into effect, which increased the progressiveness further:

 

[Axulus]

Based on what data? The tax code is the most progressive it has been in decades and, once again, this is before the 2013 tax increases went into effect, which increased the progressiveness further:

View attachment 1006

This shows nothing about how much their taxes have gone up. Is your only point that their increasing share of income isn't completely taxed away?

 

[untermensche]

This shows nothing about how much their taxes have gone up. Is your only point that their increasing share of income isn't completely taxed away?

This shows that all the gains in wealth are being made by a tiny few.

And the amount of taxes is much less important than what the taxes are used for.

If the government is not using taxes productively then that is a much more serious problem.

 

[barbos]

The reason the rich have such an advantage is because of our voting system.

respectfully disagree.
the voting system is a symptom of the real problem: the rich have an advantage because nearly everyone in this country is a fucking retard.

where we are right now is the inevitable end-point of decades upon decades of ingrained stupidity, piling on top of itself.
our political system is no different from the cliche of british royals being so inbred that they can't *not* be drooling idiots - the TV was invented and the nation just collectively shit themselves and called it politics.

respectfully agree.

 

[ksen]

Based on what data? The tax code is the most progressive it has been in decades

Slightly misleading. The tax code has been getting less and less progressive since the 1960s. Clinton reversed this trend for awhile but it came roaring back in the Bush administration. The Obama administration tried undoing the Bush administrations regressiveness but was only partially reversed due to Republican congressional intransigence.

http://eml.berkeley.edu/~saez/piketty-saezJEP07taxprog.pdf

 

[dismal]

Why are we still arguing about this if the war is over?

 

[ksen]

Who's arguing? I'm just helping axulus correct his misperceptions of the tax code.

 

[dismal]

Who's arguing? I'm just helping axulus correct his misperceptions of the tax code.

Why bother? The war is over. I'm sure the top tax bracket will be going to zero soon.

 

[ksen]

Learn to read. The thread title says the war in politics is over. It says nothing about the coming war in the streets.

 

[dismal]

Learn to read. The thread title says the war in politics is over. It says nothing about the coming war in the streets.

So you're going to go out in the streets and...argue with Axulus about the tax code?

 

[ksen]

Yes, that's what I'm going to do.

 

[Thomas II]

"I am convinced that those societies (as the Indians) which live without government enjoy in their general mass an infinitely greater degree of happiness than those who live under the European governments. Among the former, public opinion is in the place of law, & restrains morals as powerfully as laws ever did anywhere. Among the latter, under pretense of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves & sheep. I do not exaggerate. This is a true picture of Europe. Cherish therefore the spirit of our people, and keep alive their attention. Do not be too severe upon their errors, but reclaim them by enlightening them. If once they become inattentive to the public affairs, you & I, & Congress & Assemblies, judges & governors shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions; and experience declares that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the governments of Europe, and to the general prey of the rich on the poor."

—Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington - January 16, 1787

 

[untermensche]

"I am convinced that those societies (as the Indians) which live without government enjoy in their general mass an infinitely greater degree of happiness than those who live under the European governments. Among the former, public opinion is in the place of law, & restrains morals as powerfully as laws ever did anywhere. Among the latter, under pretense of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves & sheep. I do not exaggerate. This is a true picture of Europe. Cherish therefore the spirit of our people, and keep alive their attention. Do not be too severe upon their errors, but reclaim them by enlightening them. If once they become inattentive to the public affairs, you & I, & Congress & Assemblies, judges & governors shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions; and experience declares that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the governments of Europe, and to the general prey of the rich on the poor."

—Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington - January 16, 1787

Jefferson certainly understood what it meant for a rich man to live as a parasite off the labor of others.

 

[Thomas II]

"I am convinced that those societies (as the Indians) which live without government enjoy in their general mass an infinitely greater degree of happiness than those who live under the European governments. Among the former, public opinion is in the place of law, & restrains morals as powerfully as laws ever did anywhere. Among the latter, under pretense of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves & sheep. I do not exaggerate. This is a true picture of Europe. Cherish therefore the spirit of our people, and keep alive their attention. Do not be too severe upon their errors, but reclaim them by enlightening them. If once they become inattentive to the public affairs, you & I, & Congress & Assemblies, judges & governors shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions; and experience declares that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the governments of Europe, and to the general prey of the rich on the poor."

—Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington - January 16, 1787

Jefferson certainly understood what it meant for a rich man to live as a parasite off the labor of others.

http://www.monticello.org/site/plantation-and-slavery/thomas-jefferson-and-slavery

 

[untermensche]

Jefferson certainly understood what it meant for a rich man to live as a parasite off the labor of others.

http://www.monticello.org/site/plantation-and-slavery/thomas-jefferson-and-slavery

I agree. Jefferson was a hypocrite.

He knew slavery was wrong but his personal comfort was more important to him. He didn't even free some of his slaves upon his death.

It is a shame that Jefferson is so admired. Hamilton was right about so much more at the same time.

 

[Playball40]

i did, and your suspicions are hilariously inaccurate.

How is it possible for the voting system to be a symptom of the problem as you've defined it?

humans are, collectively, incomprehensibly stupid.
any social system in place is necessarily flawed due to that basic and fundamental stupidity.
the voting system in the US and the numerous problems derived from it are a symptom of this, and consequently the wretched state of social politics in the US is the result of the country's population.
(as it always has been, and always will be.)

The problem as you've defined it is that we're a nation of drooling idiots effectively inbred by our televisions...

i would disagree with this characterization because it attempts to blame TV for what is an inherent trait of the species.
TV didn't make us stupid, we are stupid anyways and TV just made it more convenient to act on that stupidity.

but the voting system in question predates the invention of the television by about 150 years or so. Thus, logically, it's impossible for the predecessor to be a symptom of a cause which follows it.

and i also said the current state of things is due to generations of idiocy on top on itself.
the TV thing was honestly just a side comment that i didn't properly delineate from the broader point: it was in essence a statement of snark in relation to my point, not meant as evidence of the point itself.

So what do you suggest that would make it better?

 

[prideandfall]

So what do you suggest that would make it better?

hell if i know - i don't think i'm anything but infinitesimally less stupid than most people, so it's not like i think i have all the answers.
sure i have a bunch of ideas that would make it better if everyone thought the way i do, but they don't.

i totally fail at having the answers, i cop to that gladly.
but, i maintain that i am correct in my overall assessment of the issue.

 

[Thomas II]

http://www.monticello.org/site/plantation-and-slavery/thomas-jefferson-and-slavery

I agree. Jefferson was a hypocrite.

He knew slavery was wrong but his personal comfort was more important to him. He didn't even free some of his slaves upon his death.

It is a shame that Jefferson is so admired. Hamilton was right about so much more at the same time.

http://www.palomar.edu/ehp/history/sgrenz/Study%20Guides/JEFFERSON-HAMILTON%20VIEWPOINTS.pdf