The class war in American politics is over. The rich won.

[ksen]

http://www.vox.com/2014/9/3/6098677/the-class-war-in-american-politics-is-over-the-rich-won

The five reasons given are:

1) Our political institutions are packed with rich people

2) Yes, the big problems do divide America by class

3) Rich politicians tend to support policies that rich people like

4) It's getting harder for lower-income and working-class people to influence our political institutions from the outside

5) Money and power is good at protecting money and power

Like the article says, it's hard to have a class war when only one side is fighting.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Welcome to 1890

 

[ksen]

Thanks, the weather is particularly nice here this time year.

 

[Blahface]

The reason the rich have such an advantage is because of our voting system. It is also because of the fucking assholes like Cenk Uygur, Lawrence Lessig, and other progressives in the media who refuse to acknowledge that the voting system is a problem.

First-past-the-post ensures that we have a chaotic system that is extremely difficult to effectively organize and coordinate unless you've got a lot of money. The elections are all about beating the worst candidate instead of voting for the best candidate. You always have to vote for the guy who is corrupted by money because if you don't the other guy who is even worse will get elected. The two candidates with the most money are the default candidates and if you don't vote for one of them you are effectively throwing your vote away. The system doesn't allow for any effective competition.

Oregon had a potential initiative that would have solved this in the state, but unfortunately it didn't get enough signatures to be put on the ballot. It called for a single non-partisan primary that would use approval voting to get the two best candidates and let them face off the general election. This would have stopped politicians from using wedges issues and divide and conquer strategies. It would have also made it much easier to organize into very effective and powerful voting blocs that candidates would have to pay attention to in order to stay competitive. You can have voting blocs that would vote for all candidates and only the candidates that support their issues. Candidates wouldn't not be able to ignore them even if they go against the wishes of their big money donors.

 

[prideandfall]

The reason the rich have such an advantage is because of our voting system.

respectfully disagree.
the voting system is a symptom of the real problem: the rich have an advantage because nearly everyone in this country is a fucking retard.

where we are right now is the inevitable end-point of decades upon decades of ingrained stupidity, piling on top of itself.
our political system is no different from the cliche of british royals being so inbred that they can't *not* be drooling idiots - the TV was invented and the nation just collectively shit themselves and called it politics.

 

[Shadowy Man]

We need a politically educated (or simply educated) populace so that winners of elections weren't decided primarily on the quantity of the TV airtime they purchase for their commercials.

 

[Emily Lake]

The reason the rich have such an advantage is because of our voting system.

respectfully disagree.
the voting system is a symptom of the real problem: the rich have an advantage because nearly everyone in this country is a fucking retard.

I am not familiar with you, prideandfall, but I strongly suspect that you didn't actually read Blahface's post. As such, I will ask you one question: How is it possible for the voting system to be a symptom of the problem as you've defined it? The problem as you've defined it is that we're a nation of drooling idiots effectively inbred by our televisions... but the voting system in question predates the invention of the television by about 150 years or so. Thus, logically, it's impossible for the predecessor to be a symptom of a cause which follows it.

 

[prideandfall]

I am not familiar with you, prideandfall, but I strongly suspect that you didn't actually read Blahface's post.

i did, and your suspicions are hilariously inaccurate.

How is it possible for the voting system to be a symptom of the problem as you've defined it?

humans are, collectively, incomprehensibly stupid.
any social system in place is necessarily flawed due to that basic and fundamental stupidity.
the voting system in the US and the numerous problems derived from it are a symptom of this, and consequently the wretched state of social politics in the US is the result of the country's population.
(as it always has been, and always will be.)

The problem as you've defined it is that we're a nation of drooling idiots effectively inbred by our televisions...

i would disagree with this characterization because it attempts to blame TV for what is an inherent trait of the species.
TV didn't make us stupid, we are stupid anyways and TV just made it more convenient to act on that stupidity.

but the voting system in question predates the invention of the television by about 150 years or so. Thus, logically, it's impossible for the predecessor to be a symptom of a cause which follows it.

and i also said the current state of things is due to generations of idiocy on top on itself.
the TV thing was honestly just a side comment that i didn't properly delineate from the broader point: it was in essence a statement of snark in relation to my point, not meant as evidence of the point itself.

 

[ZiprHead]

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger's_law

Yes, our voting system is a major problem.

 

[Blahface]

The reason the rich have such an advantage is because of our voting system.

respectfully disagree.
the voting system is a symptom of the real problem: the rich have an advantage because nearly everyone in this country is a fucking retard.

where we are right now is the inevitable end-point of decades upon decades of ingrained stupidity, piling on top of itself.
our political system is no different from the cliche of british royals being so inbred that they can't *not* be drooling idiots - the TV was invented and the nation just collectively shit themselves and called it politics.

The populace may be stupid, but the overwhelming majority of them are at least smart enough to see that there is a problem with money in politics. If we didn't penalize voters for voting for good candidates, we would easily be able to elect representatives that would get an amendment passed to get money out of politics. I also think there are enough smart people to get the dumb people to approve good candidates. Although, on the other side, I'm sure there are dumb people who would be convinced to vote for bad candidates as well. All in all, I think the dumb people can cancel each other out.

Also, dumb people can still want good policy even if they haven't thought it through and I'm sure they can be at least smart enough to vote for all the candidates endorsed by an advocacy group they support. For example, I'm sure potheads would be able to get information from the “legalize pot party” to find out which candidates they need to vote for to legalize weed.

 

[Ford]

Like the article says, it's hard to have a class war when only one side is fighting.

The trick to winning a class war is not to get the other side to stop fighting, but to get the other side to start fighting for you.

Used to be, if you were working class, you tended to fall in with the more leftward leaning side. Democrats. Unions. Labor movements.

What the right has done is managed to convince a whole lot of working class folks that if you're feeling a bit repressed by your betters, the solution is to support them so the jobs and economic benefits will "trickle down" to you in the short term, and make you yourself rich in the long term.

Yeah, those union guys might get you a better wage and benefits, but you...sir...are an entrepreneur! A small business just waiting to happen! If you support these left-wingers now, then when you go out and start your own business they'll tax you to death and take your money.

They've sold a whole lot of people on the idea that you can "be your own boss," and fail to mention that the people behind their party don't actually welcome competition. Welcome to the business class...where we will crush you.

 

[Axulus]

The fantasy of the left: the people are just so stupid, deluded, and manipulated by the rich, that's why the majority of the people don't think and vote like I do!

 

[Ford]

The fantasy of the left: the people are just so stupid, deluded, and manipulated by the rich, that's why the majority of the people don't think and vote like I do!

The fantasy of the right: You too, can be a captain of industry! We'll welcome you into our fraternity of rich people and totally won't try to destroy you or run you out of business!

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Recently read Jon Haidt's book "Righteous Mind". I definitely fit his definition of liberal, caring almost exclusively about hurt/harm and fairness foundations of morality. Have any conservatives here read that book and see themselves in his definition of conservatives, with the other added foundations of morality being important and as important as these two?

 

[Axulus]

Let's see, over the last 4 years, the left:

Got higher capital gains taxes (the top rate increased by ~60%!)
Are getting support for higher minimum wages, with several states substantially increasing their minimum wages
Got higher tax rates in general
Got the largest overhaul to our health care system since the implementation of Medicare, that may be a stepping stone to universal health coverage
Got a huge financial regulatory bill (Dodd-Frank, containing 14,000 pages of regulation)

And this is all evidence that those evil rich are winning and making the voters dumb

 

[Ford]

Let's see, over the last 4 years, the left:

Have to a considerable degree dragged the US economy out of the free-fall that was manufactured by the folks on the right who tried to prove that lower taxes, lower wages, lower regulation, and hacking away at social safety nets was all part of a grand plan to make 'Merica prosperous.

I'll grant you that there are dumb voters. They're the ones who think that shit still might work despite decades of evidence that "trickle down" is crap.

 

[Axulus]

More evidence that demonstrates that the rich have won. Note that this is _before_ the tax increases on the rich:

 

[Ford]

More evidence that demonstrates that the rich have won.

So, where do you fall in those charts, Aux?

 

[untermensche]

More evidence that demonstrates that the rich have won. Note that this is _before_ the tax increases on the rich:

Yes. All economic gains are going to a small amount of people.

Thus their taxes are going up. But not as much as their wealth is going up.

 

[Axulus]

More evidence that demonstrates that the rich have won. Note that this is _before_ the tax increases on the rich:

Yes. All economic gains are going to a small amount of people.

Thus their taxes are going up. But not as much as their wealth is going up.

Based on what data? The tax code is the most progressive it has been in decades and, once again, this is before the 2013 tax increases went into effect, which increased the progressiveness further:

Despite Rising Inequality, Tax Code is at Most Progressive in Decades

One of the persistent themes in all of the news reports and editorials about inequality is that the rising incomes of the 1% are in some way the result of a repeated tax cuts for the rich and a tax system that is rigged in favor of the wealthy.
While it is true that scores of tax breaks favor high-income taxpayers, the irony is that the the tax system has become increasingly progressive as inequality in America has grown. Indeed, a recent Congressional Budget Office report finds that the overall federal tax system is more progressive today than it has been over the past 35 years. And the biggest growth in progressivity has been in the income tax, which is nearly twice as progressive today as it was in 1979 at the end of the Carter Administration.

...

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/despite-rising-inequality-tax-code-most-progressive-decades