The Data On Legalizing Weed

[ZiprHead]

NPR-The Data On Legalizing Weed

Legalization didn't seem to substantially affect crime rates — Proponents of legalizing weed claimed it would reduce violent crimes. Opponents said it would increase violent crimes. A study by the CATO Institute finds, "Overall, violent crime has neither soared nor plummeted in the wake of marijuana legalization."

Legalization seems to have little or no effect on traffic accidents and fatalities — Opponents of marijuana legalization argued it would wreak havoc on the road. A few studies have found that's not the case. Economists Benjamin Hansen, Keaton S. Miller & Caroline Weber, for instance, found evidence suggesting it had no effect on trends in traffic fatalities in both Colorado and Washington.

Legalization has barely affected the price of marijuana — Many people believed that marijuana prices would crash after legalization, providing an increased incentive to use it. But a recent study by the CATO institute found prices have barely budged. The price of getting high has stayed high. In California, for example, the price of marijuana actually increased after legalization, before leveling off at about $260 an ounce. Before full legalization, it cost about $250 an ounce. All the states that have legalized marijuana have seen prices converge around that level. "The convergence in prices across states is consistent with the idea that legalization diverts marijuana commerce from underground markets to legal retail shops, allowing retailers to charge a premium as the preferred sources of supply," the authors write.

Several more points in the link on job creation, state budgets, and workers comp issues. Copyright prevents me from quoting more.

It seems legalization has been good all the way around.

My sister in law started working at a marijuana sales place early last year. They just made her a manager and she's working at becoming a certified cannabis tester.

 

[southernhybrid]

Imo, all that legalization of weed does is make it less likely that racial minorities will be arrested and prosecuted for using. So, weed should be federally legalized in the interest of fairness. Making cannabis legal also brings increased state revenue, so that's a secondary benefit. Imo, ETOH is far more destructive than cannabis, yet it's been legal since the end of the misguided prohibition era.

Cannabis was made illegal for racist reasons, and that racism exists today. ETOH causes a lot more problems than cannabis, yet cannabis continues to be illegal on the federal level as well as in most states.

https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/racial-disparity-in-marijuana-arrests/

African Americans are arrested for violating marijuana possession laws at nearly four times the rates of whites, yet both ethnicities consume marijuana at roughly the same rates.

Specifically, a 2020 analysis by the American Civil Liberties Union, concluded, “Black people are 3.64 times more likely than white people to be arrested for marijuana possession, notwithstanding comparable usage rates.” Authors reported, “In every single state, Black people were more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession, and in some states, Black people were up to six, eight, or almost ten times more likely to be arrested. In 31 states, racial disparities were actually larger in 2018 than they were in 2010.”
American Civil Liberties Union, A Tale of Two Countries: Racially Targeted Arrests in the Era of Marijuana Reform, 2020

 

[Trausti]

Just say no.

 

[TV and credit cards]

And
Legalization has decreased black market sales

Retail sales increased by 70% while THC levels in wastewater increased by 9%.

Marijuana seizures at the southern border have fallen 80%

CBP can focus their efforts elsewhere.

 

[Elixir]

And
Legalization has decreased black market sales

Retail sales increased by 70% while THC levels in wastewater increased by 9%.

Marijuana seizures at the southern border have fallen 80%

CBP can focus their efforts elsewhere.

Yeah, while prices per ounce have remained steady, quality has definitely increased.
The cost of my own consumption has gone down to a fraction of what it was in decades past, since I am free to grow it... I'll spring for seeds ($50-75) every few years, and consume maybe $50/yr in incremental fertilizer (mostly calcium&magnesium supplements) that I otherwise wouldn't buy (pot is a VERY resource-intensive plant!). And I end up giving away more finished product than I can ever use - doing my part to keep prices down!

 

[rousseau]

There's really no reason why it shouldn't be legalized across the board. People's fears of the drug are derived from the law and not vice versa. And I'd hazard a guess that the DEA has a vested interest in the status quo.

It was legalized in Canada recently and absolutely nothing interesting happened, except officers who were already turning a blind eye are now able to just ignore it.

 

[ronburgundy]

A potential harm of legal weed is an large increase in energy use and carbon emissions of the legal pot industry. Not only is more pot being grown, but it's being grown using far more energy intensive methods, mostly indoors with lots climate control and the petroleum products big corporate agriculture uses. Not only is the much more capital available for such approaches, but it's hard to hide those kinds of operations, so they were less common when it was illegal and lots of US weed was grown in hidden groves within the woods.

This was a speculation of mine, but there seems to be support for it.


While more regulation to control high emissions methods is needed, part of the problem is just pointless dumb regulations, like Colorado rule that it must be sold only at the same location it is grown, which prompts more indoor growing rather than rural land-based production, so it can be sold in urban centers where most consumers are. I can't even think of a rationale for that rule, but odds are it somehow advantages large corporations.

 

[Elixir]

A potential harm of legal weed is an large increase in energy use and carbon emissions of the legal pot industry. Not only is more pot being grown, but it's being grown using far more energy intensive methods, mostly indoors with lots climate control and the petroleum products big corporate agriculture uses. Not only is the much more capital available for such approaches, but it's hard to hide those kinds of operations, so they were less common when it was illegal and lots of US weed was grown in hidden groves within the woods.

This was a speculation of mine, but there seems to be support for it.


While more regulation to control high emissions methods is needed, part of the problem is just pointless dumb regulations, like Colorado rule that it must be sold only at the same location it is grown, which prompts more indoor growing rather than rural land-based production, so it can be sold in urban centers where most consumers are. I can't even think of a rationale for that rule, but odds are it somehow advantages large corporations.

I've been in CO since 1972 and was unaware of any such rule. We have lots of pot shops in this town and no commercial grow sites, so ...

The problems you mention are ALL by-products of the illegality of a plant. Sheesh.

 

[ronburgundy]

A potential harm of legal weed is an large increase in energy use and carbon emissions of the legal pot industry. Not only is more pot being grown, but it's being grown using far more energy intensive methods, mostly indoors with lots climate control and the petroleum products big corporate agriculture uses. Not only is the much more capital available for such approaches, but it's hard to hide those kinds of operations, so they were less common when it was illegal and lots of US weed was grown in hidden groves within the woods.

This was a speculation of mine, but there seems to be support for it.


While more regulation to control high emissions methods is needed, part of the problem is just pointless dumb regulations, like Colorado rule that it must be sold only at the same location it is grown, which prompts more indoor growing rather than rural land-based production, so it can be sold in urban centers where most consumers are. I can't even think of a rationale for that rule, but odds are it somehow advantages large corporations.

I've been in CO since 1972 and was unaware of any such rule. We have lots of pot shops in this town and no commercial grow sites, so ...

The problems you mention are ALL by-products of the illegality of a plant. Sheesh.

The issue of that CO rule was just something stated in the linked article I hadn't heard before. Maybe that is inaccurate, but it is separate from the fact of high CO2 emissions of legal pot. Emissions are higher with legal than illegal pot, b/c legal has turned it into a massive corporate, capital intensive agricultural enterprise where more pot is now grown indoors, so it can be more controlled, protected, and with higher yields and year round heavily climate controlled (aka high energy consumption) environments. Such large scale indoor production would have triggered investigation and discovery back when it was illegal, so a large % of illegal pot used to be grown in hidden plots outdoors, so it was less visible to authorities, and outdoor pot production has far less CO2 emissions.

 

[steve_bank]

Overall he general normalization of drugs stared in the 60s has led to the addiction problems we have today, IMO.

Opioid addictions are now considered a crisis.

Walking around Seattle people are smocking pot in cars, you can see it and smell it as they drive buy.

Walking around the smell of pot is never far away. The term for a bum drinking wine out of a paper bag is wino. Now it is pot. Teens to adults hanging around on the steets, in parks, and parking lots smoking pot. We need a new tern like potos.

Instead of beer kids hang out smoking pot. I see it.

I know one person who developed lung disease from chronic pot smoking.

Despite what some argue pot is addictive. There are people who can not get by without it as with tobaccos smokers.

I do know people who say it is effective for chronic pain.

The recent medical reports I heard indicate long term use can lead to diminished mental functions.

You can ague we allow alcohol and tobacco, why not pot and it is a valid argument.

I do not think pot is harmless.

 

[lpetrich]

Increasing CO2 emission? That has to be the weirdest bit of FUD I've ever seen about legal marijuana.

I'd like to see how it's much worse than tobacco or cut flowers.

 

[untermensche]

Marijuana is addictive the same way caffeine is addictive. A very weak addiction where cessation causes minor transient symptoms and rarely any need for medical attention.

There is no evidence smoking marijuana causes lung cancer or COPD. If all cigarette smokers switched to marijuana it would save trillions in health care costs.

The use of marijuana has been shown to reduce the need for very dangerous narcotics used for pain.

Tens of millions of Americans have been smoking marijuana for decades. If there was serious harm caused by it we would know about it statistically.

 

[rousseau]

Overall he general normalization of drugs stared in the 60s has led to the addiction problems we have today, IMO.

Opioid addictions are now considered a crisis.

Walking around Seattle people are smocking pot in cars, you can see it and smell it as they drive buy.

Walking around the smell of pot is never far away. The term for a bum drinking wine out of a paper bag is wino. Now it is pot. Teens to adults hanging around on the steets, in parks, and parking lots smoking pot. We need a new tern like potos.

Instead of beer kids hang out smoking pot. I see it.

I know one person who developed lung disease from chronic pot smoking.

Despite what some argue pot is addictive. There are people who can not get by without it as with tobaccos smokers.

I do know people who say it is effective for chronic pain.

The recent medical reports I heard indicate long term use can lead to diminished mental functions.

You can ague we allow alcohol and tobacco, why not pot and it is a valid argument.

I do not think pot is harmless.

I don't think you can really equivocate one drug with all drugs, though. Different drugs need different regulations and strategies. In the U.S. the Opioid crisis comes down to poor regulation, where pot isn't harmless, but basically safe on a day to day basis.

I agree with your assessment of pot. I think the idea that it's not unhealthy is pernicious, and causes people real problems. But personally I'd rather live in a community where people have the freedom to use it without fear. And hey, if it's demotivating young people en masse that can only mean one thing - job security for me .

 

[Elixir]

A potential harm of legal weed is an large increase in energy use and carbon emissions of the legal pot industry. Not only is more pot being grown, but it's being grown using far more energy intensive methods, mostly indoors with lots climate control and the petroleum products big corporate agriculture uses. Not only is the much more capital available for such approaches, but it's hard to hide those kinds of operations, so they were less common when it was illegal and lots of US weed was grown in hidden groves within the woods.

This was a speculation of mine, but there seems to be support for it.


While more regulation to control high emissions methods is needed, part of the problem is just pointless dumb regulations, like Colorado rule that it must be sold only at the same location it is grown, which prompts more indoor growing rather than rural land-based production, so it can be sold in urban centers where most consumers are. I can't even think of a rationale for that rule, but odds are it somehow advantages large corporations.

I've been in CO since 1972 and was unaware of any such rule. We have lots of pot shops in this town and no commercial grow sites, so ...

The problems you mention are ALL by-products of the illegality of a plant. Sheesh.

The issue of that CO rule was just something stated in the linked article I hadn't heard before. Maybe that is inaccurate, but it is separate from the fact of high CO2 emissions of legal pot. Emissions are higher with legal than illegal pot, b/c legal has turned it into a massive corporate, capital intensive agricultural enterprise where more pot is now grown indoors, so it can be more controlled, protected, and with higher yields and year round heavily climate controlled (aka high energy consumption) environments. Such large scale indoor production would have triggered investigation and discovery back when it was illegal, so a large % of illegal pot used to be grown in hidden plots outdoors, so it was less visible to authorities, and outdoor pot production has far less CO2 emissions.

Yeah, that's very believable. To me, the whole concept of an "illegal plant" reeks of human folly. Driving cultivation indoors is just plain stupid.
Personally, I use very little incremental energy to grow weed - I have a tiny (600W) ceramic heater that is turned on in our greenhouse for a few nights in the spring and fall when temps fall below freezing, but I have done that for our tomato plants for decades. Other than that, it takes some electricity to pump well water ... and pot does use a lot of water.

 

[Treedbear]

...
Personally, I use very little incremental energy to grow weed - I have a tiny (600W) ceramic heater that is turned on in our greenhouse for a few nights in the spring and fall when temps fall below freezing, but I have done that for our tomato plants for decades. Other than that, it takes some electricity to pump well water ... and pot does use a lot of water.

Just to add some perspective 600 watts for 12 hours is the CO2 equivalent of burning 5.6 pounds of coal or driving the average passenger car 12.6 miles.

 

[ZiprHead]

The issue of that CO rule was just something stated in the linked article I hadn't heard before. Maybe that is inaccurate, but it is separate from the fact of high CO2 emissions of legal pot. Emissions are higher with legal than illegal pot, b/c legal has turned it into a massive corporate, capital intensive agricultural enterprise where more pot is now grown indoors, so it can be more controlled, protected, and with higher yields and year round heavily climate controlled (aka high energy consumption) environments. Such large scale indoor production would have triggered investigation and discovery back when it was illegal, so a large % of illegal pot used to be grown in hidden plots outdoors, so it was less visible to authorities, and outdoor pot production has far less CO2 emissions.

Yeah, that's very believable. To me, the whole concept of an "illegal plant" reeks of human folly. Driving cultivation indoors is just plain stupid.
Personally, I use very little incremental energy to grow weed - I have a tiny (600W) ceramic heater that is turned on in our greenhouse for a few nights in the spring and fall when temps fall below freezing, but I have done that for our tomato plants for decades. Other than that, it takes some electricity to pump well water ... and pot does use a lot of water.

The pot shops here in Michigan won't buy outdoor grown weed.

 

[Elixir]

...
Personally, I use very little incremental energy to grow weed - I have a tiny (600W) ceramic heater that is turned on in our greenhouse for a few nights in the spring and fall when temps fall below freezing, but I have done that for our tomato plants for decades. Other than that, it takes some electricity to pump well water ... and pot does use a lot of water.

Just to add some perspective 600 watts for 12 hours is the CO2 equivalent of burning 5.6 pounds of coal or driving the average passenger car 12.6 miles.

Pffft. It only runs for 2-3 hours per night, if that, and only for a few nights in the spring and a few nights in the fall. It's thermostatically controlled, and mostly just moves the air around inside the greenhouse. Probably uses less juice than pumping the water... which is a daily demand for 120+ days every year.

The pot shops here in Michigan won't buy outdoor grown weed.

Ridiculous...
The MOST ridiculous part is that hemp could vastly reduce the environmental impact of growing and harvesting lots of "legal" plants.

5 Ways Hemp Can Save the Planet

 

[KeepTalking]

Overall he general normalization of drugs stared in the 60s has led to the addiction problems we have today, IMO.

Opioid addictions are now considered a crisis.

The Opioid crisis has nothing to do with marijuana regulations, nor with any supposed 'normalization of drugs' (whatever that means). I would suggest that you get informed on what actually precipitated the Opioid crisis, but that is a topic for another thread.

Walking around Seattle people are smocking pot in cars, you can see it and smell it as they drive buy.

I have been smoking pot in cars since the late '70s, this is not a new phenomenon.

Walking around the smell of pot is never far away. The term for a bum drinking wine out of a paper bag is wino. Now it is pot. Teens to adults hanging around on the steets, in parks, and parking lots smoking pot. We need a new tern like potos.

The term is "pothead", it has been with us for decades. I have also been smoking pot in parks since the '70s, that is not a new phenomenon. Smoking on the street is a different story, but that still does not happen here in Illinois where pot is legal, as it is illegal to smoke it in public. I would imagine that this part of the law will change as it becomes more acceptable, and I will note that there are jurisdictions where it is illegal to consume alcohol, or be intoxicated in public.

Instead of beer kids hang out smoking pot. I see it.

I did both when I was a kid. I still do, this is not a new phenomenon.

I know one person who developed lung disease from chronic pot smoking.

It is likely more accurate to say that you know a person who developed lung disease, and was/is a chronic pot smoker. Correlation does not equal causation.

Despite what some argue pot is addictive. There are people who can not get by without it as with tobaccos smokers.

Pot can be psychologically addictive. This is quite different from the physical addiction that can result from the use of alcohol and opioids.

I do know people who say it is effective for chronic pain.

I would say it helps take the edge off of my chronic pain. Opioids are more effective at reducing the pain, but I dislike many of the other effects of opioids on my body. Pot with a tolerable amount of pain is much better than opioids with virtually no pain, IMO.

The recent medical reports I heard indicate long term use can lead to diminished mental functions.

I am a full stack web and mobile developer at the top of my game. I smoked my first joint at age 12. I have been a daily smoker for decades (excepting a month or two here and there for the purposes of passing a drug screen). It can't have diminished my mental functions all that much.

You can ague we allow alcohol and tobacco, why not pot and it is a valid argument.

I do make that argument. What is your response?

I do not think pot is harmless.

I never said it was. Then again that corndog I am eating right now is not harmless either, but I'm not sure life would be worth living without corndogs and pot.

 

[Elixir]

Nothing is harmless unto itself.
The toxicology maxim TDMTP (the dose makes the poison) applies universally.
The notion of "substance abuse" somehow implies the ingestion of drugs, but dropping a brick on your foot also qualifies.

Steve's paranoia about pot is irrational.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Well, if the feds could get on board with this maybe funding to study environmental effects could happen through the EPA and National Science Foundation.

The Environmental Downside of Cannabis Cultivation