The face of Israeli justice

[untermensche]

The Israeli police thought this young man was just another Palestinian that they are allowed to beat up with impunity. Unfortunately for them he is a US citizen.

There is nothing new about this and nothing rare. And of course this is just the tip of the iceberg. The real torture and criminality takes place in those secret prisons Israel has.

This is how Israeli power treats the people it has imprisoned and abused for decades. There is no crime in using violence to try to free yourself from such oppression.

Israeli police brutally beat, detain Florida teen while he was watching protests over slaying of Palestinian cousin: family

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/israeli-police-beat-detain-fla-teen-family-article-1.1856079

 

[Nexus]

The Israeli police thought this young man was just another Palestinian that they are allowed to beat up with impunity. Unfortunately for them he is a US citizen.

They have nothing to fear attacking American citizens. Their control of US politicians is as firm as any major corporations.

 

[untermensche]

The Israeli police thought this young man was just another Palestinian that they are allowed to beat up with impunity. Unfortunately for them he is a US citizen.

They have nothing to fear attacking American citizens. Their control of US politicians is as firm as any major corporations.

True, but US politicians have to appear that they care about things like justice.

 

[Jayjay]

I was wondering when someone would finally take a note of the latest Israel/Palestine clusterfuck, and start a thread on it. Hamas kidnapping three settlers wasn't newsworthy enough. Israel launching an unprecedent manhunt and detaining hundreds of Palestinians, killing 6 in the process, wasn't quite as sexy enough to break the threshold. Then, them being able to actually find the culprits, and finding out that the kids are dead, ... same-old same-old I guess. Israelis starting revenge facebook revenge campaign and lynch mobs on streets of Jerusalem callign death to Arabs surely didn't interest anyone, after all there are 5 or 10 threads on college rape accusations or proper insertion of IUD going on, who has the time? And finally, settlers capturing another Palestinian kid and burning him alive, .. meh.

But when his cousin, who is an American citizen, gets roughed up and posts a selfie? Stop the press! An AMERICAN has been slighted!

 

[untermensche]

I was wondering when someone would finally take a note of the latest Israel/Palestine clusterfuck, and start a thread on it. Hamas kidnapping three settlers wasn't newsworthy enough. Israel launching an unprecedent manhunt and detaining hundreds of Palestinians, killing 6 in the process, wasn't quite as sexy enough to break the threshold. Then, them being able to actually find the culprits, and finding out that the kids are dead, ... same-old same-old I guess. Israelis starting revenge facebook revenge campaign and lynch mobs on streets of Jerusalem callign death to Arabs surely didn't interest anyone, after all there are 5 or 10 threads on college rape accusations or proper insertion of IUD going on, who has the time? And finally, settlers capturing another Palestinian kid and burning him alive, .. meh.

But when his cousin, who is an American citizen, gets roughed up and posts a selfie? Stop the press! An AMERICAN has been slighted!

What we have in Israel is a very powerful nation oppressing a very weak population so it's citizens can steal land.

The core of this whole situation is decades of brutal oppression.

All talk about the ways the Palestinians have reacted to that oppression is just an attempt to distract from this core issue.

And this is just one face of that oppression.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I was wondering when someone would finally take a note of the latest Israel/Palestine clusterfuck, and start a thread on it. Hamas kidnapping three settlers wasn't newsworthy enough.

Minor issue: I don't think anyone seriously believes Hamas had anything to do with the kidnappings. The settler kids probably just happened to get noticed by somebody who had a cousin or a nephew in an Israeli jail. It's pretty clear at this point that Israel used the abductions as an excuse to crack down on Hamas, although it stands VERY much to reason that those three teenagers would probably still be alive if the IDF hadn't gone rampaging into the West Bank looking for them (leading their captors to simply cut their losses and execute them rather than risk an Israeli death squad busting through the wall during negotiations).

An issue that doesn't get talked about much is the fact that these settlements are indisputably illegal, that the people who live there are effectively squatters occupying land that they have no right to live on, and that technically anything the Palestinians could do to those settlers would count as self-defense under international law.

 

[Jayjay]

What we have in Israel is a very powerful nation oppressing a very weak population so it's citizens can steal land.

The core of this whole situation is decades of brutal oppression.

All talk about the ways the Palestinians have reacted to that oppression is just an attempt to distract from this core issue.

And this is just one face of that oppression.

I beg to differ. The Israeli treatment of protestors and mass detentions is not the "core issue", it's just a consequence of the settlement policy. What makes the recent events noteworthy in my opinion is not Israel beating up protestors, but the fact that Hamas finally hit a nerve (although I think that was by half accident... I think Hamas wanted to use the kidnapped teens as bargaining chips for prisoner exchange, but ended up killing them because they could not transport them amid the IDF search operation) with the settlers and their fanatic supporters, who in turn exposed themselves as the lynch mob they are.

 

[untermensche]

What we have in Israel is a very powerful nation oppressing a very weak population so it's citizens can steal land.

The core of this whole situation is decades of brutal oppression.

All talk about the ways the Palestinians have reacted to that oppression is just an attempt to distract from this core issue.

And this is just one face of that oppression.

I beg to differ. The Israeli treatment of protestors and mass detentions is not the "core issue", it's just a consequence of the settlement policy. What makes the recent events noteworthy in my opinion is not Israel beating up protestors, but the fact that Hamas finally hit a nerve (although I think that was by half accident... I think Hamas wanted to use the kidnapped teens as bargaining chips for prisoner exchange, but ended up killing them because they could not transport them amid the IDF search operation) with the settlers and their fanatic supporters, who in turn exposed themselves as the lynch mob they are.

The core issue is the overall oppression, in all the many ways, that Israel has used and continues to use.

The oppression of protests is one small part of a huge nexus of oppression and abuse.

And again, talking about the ways Palestinians have reacted to the oppression is pure distraction from the core issue.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Israeli police spokeswoman Luba Samri said that Tariq Khdeir had resisted arrest and attacked officers. He was detained with a slingshot in his possession used to hurl stones at police, Samri claimed.

So what if he got a bit hurt resisting arrest? He was trying to kill them.

 

[laughing dog]

Israeli police spokeswoman Luba Samri said that Tariq Khdeir had resisted arrest and attacked officers. He was detained with a slingshot in his possession used to hurl stones at police, Samri claimed.

So what if he got a bit hurt resisting arrest? He was trying to kill them.

You are confusing your asssumptions with fact. 1st, you assume the Israeli police statement is accurate. 2nd, there is no claim in the statement that the teenager was trying to kill anyone.

 

[Samhain]

I was wondering when someone would finally take a note of the latest Israel/Palestine clusterfuck, and start a thread on it. Hamas kidnapping three settlers wasn't newsworthy enough.

Minor issue: I don't think anyone seriously believes Hamas had anything to do with the kidnappings. The settler kids probably just happened to get noticed by somebody who had a cousin or a nephew in an Israeli jail. It's pretty clear at this point that Israel used the abductions as an excuse to crack down on Hamas, although it stands VERY much to reason that those three teenagers would probably still be alive if the IDF hadn't gone rampaging into the West Bank looking for them (leading their captors to simply cut their losses and execute them rather than risk an Israeli death squad busting through the wall during negotiations).

An issue that doesn't get talked about much is the fact that these settlements are indisputably illegal, that the people who live there are effectively squatters occupying land that they have no right to live on, and that technically anything the Palestinians could do to those settlers would count as self-defense under international law.

Well, the issue certainly does get discussed here (I.e. FRDB before this) all the time. Unfortunately the devil is generally lost in the details bickering over whether the IDF was reasonable in using force against threats or perceived threats. What doesn't get stressed enough is that the illegal settlements and general treatment of the Palestinians by the IDF is the root cause of nearly all of the violence. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately depending on how you view the situation), neither the IDF nor Israel in general have a moral leg to stand on in this conflict. But you're right, if nothing else can possibly be said about the legality of Israel itself, it is certainly fact that the settlements are illegal and immoral and indefensible. Yet in the fervor of discussing these more minor issues of the occupation, sight is is lost of the larger issue, which is the illegal settlements.

 

[Bomb#20]

An issue that doesn't get talked about much is the fact that these settlements are indisputably illegal, that the people who live there are effectively squatters occupying land that they have no right to live on, and that technically anything the Palestinians could do to those settlers would count as self-defense under international law.

So if somebody squats on your land and won't leave, kidnapping him and then killing him while he's helpless is legal? It's "self-defense"? "Technically"? Exactly which technicality of which international law says this?

 

[repoman]

If the Palestinians were not muslim, they would have been expelled by now.

Why should a Turkish or an Indonesian care about the oppression of a Palestinian more than other oppressions? It is madness.

 

[Jayjay]

Israeli police spokeswoman Luba Samri said that Tariq Khdeir had resisted arrest and attacked officers. He was detained with a slingshot in his possession used to hurl stones at police, Samri claimed.

So what if he got a bit hurt resisting arrest? He was trying to kill them.

With a slingshot? Do you know of a single case where Israeli police would have been killed by a slingshot? Besides you don't know if the slingshot was used to hurl stones at people, or vehicles or buildings.

You might as well say that the police tried to kill him, but failed. There are certainly more cases of protestors being killed by the police, than vice versa.

Besides, the kid's cousin was captured and burned alive by Israelis, and the police is not lifting a finger to bring the murderer to justice. You think he might have reason to be a bit pissed off at the police, no?

 

[Jayjay]

Minor issue: I don't think anyone seriously believes Hamas had anything to do with the kidnappings. The settler kids probably just happened to get noticed by somebody who had a cousin or a nephew in an Israeli jail. It's pretty clear at this point that Israel used the abductions as an excuse to crack down on Hamas, although it stands VERY much to reason that those three teenagers would probably still be alive if the IDF hadn't gone rampaging into the West Bank looking for them (leading their captors to simply cut their losses and execute them rather than risk an Israeli death squad busting through the wall during negotiations).

An issue that doesn't get talked about much is the fact that these settlements are indisputably illegal, that the people who live there are effectively squatters occupying land that they have no right to live on, and that technically anything the Palestinians could do to those settlers would count as self-defense under international law.

Well, the issue certainly does get discussed here (I.e. FRDB before this) all the time. Unfortunately the devil is generally lost in the details bickering over whether the IDF was reasonable in using force against threats or perceived threats. What doesn't get stressed enough is that the illegal settlements and general treatment of the Palestinians by the IDF is the root cause of nearly all of the violence. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately depending on how you view the situation), neither the IDF nor Israel in general have a moral leg to stand on in this conflict. But you're right, if nothing else can possibly be said about the legality of Israel itself, it is certainly fact that the settlements are illegal and immoral and indefensible. Yet in the fervor of discussing these more minor issues of the occupation, sight is is lost of the larger issue, which is the illegal settlements.

I wasn't referring to the bigger picture, which gets an occasional thread, but the specific current events. What makes the events unfolding presently unusual is precisely that they revolve around the settlers and settlements, rather than just usual violence you see. For one thing, the initial three kids were from West Bank, hence legitimate targets (though I don't agree with Hamas's motivation of using them as bargaining chips), finally bringing the fight to where it belongs. Secondly, the exposition of the ugly face of settler fanaticism with all the "death to arabs" marches. And third, outright murder from and burning alive of a kid just for revenge by the same fanatics, which is also a first.

I think that Palestinians will eventually calm down though. Recent history shows that the folks in West Bank don't have the stomach for violent resistance, and Hamas is more interested in digging its heels in Gaza and useless fire crackers.

 

[Jayjay]

If the Palestinians were not muslim, they would have been expelled by now.

Expelled where? Which country are they citizens of exactly?

 

[Derec]

Unfortunately for them he is a US citizen.

One of the murdered Israeli teens was a US citizen. I did not see any threads started by you then. Why is that?

- - - Updated - - -

They have nothing to fear attacking American citizens.

Apparently neither do the Palestinians (US and EU are still funding the PA), since one of the murdered (a bit more serious than just a bloody nose) Jewish teenagers was a US citizen too. Besides, unlike the murdered Jewish teens, he wasn't an innocent but someone who attacked the police and resisted arrest.

 

[Perspicuo]

Resisting arrest is a reason for beating the jellybeans out of someone? That's new to me.

I always thought resisting arrest is a reason for overpowering that person, not busting her/his face open with repeated bludgeonings, whch is not an uncommon practice the world over (not that popularity is an excuse).

 

[Jayjay]

One of the murdered Israeli teens was a US citizen. I did not see any threads started by you then. Why is that?

- - - Updated - - -

They have nothing to fear attacking American citizens.

Apparently neither do the Palestinians (US and EU are still funding the PA), since one of the murdered (a bit more serious than just a bloody nose) Jewish teenagers was a US citizen too. Besides, unlike the murdered Jewish teens, he wasn't an innocent but someone who attacked the police and resisted arrest.

Was his cousin who was burned to death "resisting arrest" as well?

Besides, the three Israeli teens that were murdered were entering an illegally occupied hostile territory. If a Palestinians did the same thing and was arrested by Israeli border guards, you wouldn't call them "innocent".

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So what if he got a bit hurt resisting arrest? He was trying to kill them.

You are confusing your asssumptions with fact. 1st, you assume the Israeli police statement is accurate. 2nd, there is no claim in the statement that the teenager was trying to kill anyone.

Note the slingshot. You're saying he had it for no reason??

- - - Updated - - -

What doesn't get stressed enough is that the illegal settlements and general treatment of the Palestinians by the IDF is the root cause of nearly all of the violence. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately depending on how you view the situation), neither the IDF nor Israel in general have a moral leg to stand on in this conflict. But you're right, if nothing else can possibly be said about the legality of Israel itself, it is certainly fact that the settlements are illegal and immoral and indefensible. Yet in the fervor of discussing these more minor issues of the occupation, sight is is lost of the larger issue, which is the illegal settlements.

So they have a time machine?

The violence started long before there was any occupation.