The face of Israeli justice

[tupac chopra]

A mugger wants your wallet and peace. He'll do his best to minimise civilian casualties damage to you in the process. Victims who shout or scream or try to hurt him are so unreasonable.

I know you're from the UK..but I'm not sure if you know this.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Iia8SgD6J0

 

[tupac chopra]

The question put to you and others was whether or not you believed Israel would demolish the homes of the accused Jewish terrorists as a disincentive to other Jewish terrorists. The answer is no, you do not believe Israel will destroy an accused Jewish terrorist's home. Neither do I. I think Israel's home leveling policy is applied along the usual racial, religious lines.

Accusing Israel of racism is racist (and this applies even if they are racist). But it's worse because that racism is anti semitic. It's worse than normal racism.
It is impossible for jew in Israel to be racist...because they are by definition the only victims of racism..and anyone who disagrees is anti semitic and a nazi.
So will everyone stop being Nazi's and let Israeli jews steal from and kill Palestinians.

 

[Derec]

 

[Loren Pechtel]

As for the compensation that you don't think exists: Here's an old source:

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/isrl-pa/ISRAELPA1002-06.htm

(And if HRW bashes Israel's enemies you can be pretty sure they're right.) In other words, it's been going on at least 14 years.

And 10 years later I find:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/cash-s...on-per-month-compensating-security-detainees/

(Yeah, it's mostly about those in jail but it also mentions money paid to suicide bomber's families.)

I know about the PA granting pensions to imprisoned fighters and paying death benefits to the families of fighters KIA. I was asking for support of the claim that the PA is celebrating the Hamas terrorists who killed the 3 Jewish boys and is making payments to their families. Do you have any?

You're setting an impossible standard here.

How are we supposed to know if the specific individuals are getting payments?

I'm showing that such payments are the norm, the burden is on you to show that it's an exception to this.

 

[laughing dog]

You're setting an impossible standard here.

Wow, asking for actual evidence to support claims of fact is not considered an impossible standard in normal discussion.

How are we supposed to know if the specific individuals are getting payments?

If you don't know something is true, then you ought not to claim it is true. You could claim that you believe it is true or that you wish it to be true.

I'm showing that such payments are the norm, the burden is on you to show that it's an exception to this.

No, you have not shown such payments are the norm in reality because that would require some sort of statistical or data based analysis - something you have not shown. You have assumed this to be true because you believe it to be true. That does not make it true.

And, of course, it is moot to the actual discussion. You claim the IDF bulldozes the homes of the families of convicted and suspected Palestinian terrorists to provide disincentives for terrorism. But you also seem to believe that bulldozing the homes of families of Israeli terrorists will not provide disincentives to them for terrorism. It seems you are basing your position on some sort of assumption about the motivations of Palestinian and Israeli terrorists because otherwise, your claim seems internally inconsistent. Now, if the real motivation for the IDF to bulldoze those homes is punishment, then the contradiction disappears: it yet another example of Israeli "justice" in action.

 

[arkirk]

I know about the PA granting pensions to imprisoned fighters and paying death benefits to the families of fighters KIA. I was asking for support of the claim that the PA is celebrating the Hamas terrorists who killed the 3 Jewish boys and is making payments to their families. Do you have any?

You're setting an impossible standard here.

How are we supposed to know if the specific individuals are getting payments?

I'm showing that such payments are the norm, the burden is on you to show that it's an exception to this.

Israel is in the business of running the Arabs out of Palestine, bit by bit. Kid by school by hospital by sewage plant, by power plant by olive grove...it is not a war. It is ethnic cleansing. It is silly to argue about these events in a vacuum of understanding of the history of the area.

The status of Arabs in the area is somewhere between that of a dog and a criminal human. When do we ask our government to stop supporting this apartheid "government?" Israel is not a legitimate entity. It simply has spent all the sympathy it could have had by its continuing actions and will meet with a bad end. Things like Israel are sorely in need of international criminal court investigation.

At the very least, refugee status should be granted to EVERY PALETINIAN... If the Israelis want land, then let them BUY IT. It would probably be cheaper than paying for all that war making equipment. The government of Israel is completely misguided. Who cast the first stone? There is no doubt that Israel will attempt eliminate Arab presence in all of Palestine eventually. We have watched this travesty play out for more than sixty years. Just because it has been persistent and will financed from outside, does not mean that it will last a lot longer.

Hamas and the IDF are just excuses for each other. The people of Gaza has no idea of what peace would be like, so all this talk of terrorism must mean nothing to them. We could go a long way toward resolving this issue, but we have to separate from this lock step support of the dispossession of the Palestinian people. Israel's true name for all Palestinians is simply misery. If they stop being that, there will be peace. Both sides need to have equal status and equal power. Perhaps we should send military hardware to the Palestinians. I don't really mean this, but if they were armed to the teeth, this silly horror would be closer to being ended. Israel has no reason to grant any concessions to the Arabs when they keep being outfitted with the weapons of conquest. We should at least stop that.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yup, quite accurate.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No, you have not shown such payments are the norm in reality because that would require some sort of statistical or data based analysis - something you have not shown. You have assumed this to be true because you believe it to be true. That does not make it true.

The % of their budget that goes to such payments shows that it must be widespread.

And, of course, it is moot to the actual discussion. You claim the IDF bulldozes the homes of the families of convicted and suspected Palestinian terrorists to provide disincentives for terrorism. But you also seem to believe that bulldozing the homes of families of Israeli terrorists will not provide disincentives to them for terrorism. It seems you are basing your position on some sort of assumption about the motivations of Palestinian and Israeli terrorists because otherwise, your claim seems internally inconsistent. Now, if the real motivation for the IDF to bulldoze those homes is punishment, then the contradiction disappears: it yet another example of Israeli "justice" in action.

No contradiction--Israeli terrorists don't get paychecks for their actions. The bulldozing is a response to the paychecks.

Israel is in the business of running the Arabs out of Palestine, bit by bit. Kid by school by hospital by sewage plant, by power plant by olive grove...it is not a war. It is ethnic cleansing. It is silly to argue about these events in a vacuum of understanding of the history of the area.

If that really were their goal they're awfully incompetent. They do not strike me as incompetent--thus I conclude that that's not their objective.

The status of Arabs in the area is somewhere between that of a dog and a criminal human. When do we ask our government to stop supporting this apartheid "government?" Israel is not a legitimate entity. It simply has spent all the sympathy it could have had by its continuing actions and will meet with a bad end. Things like Israel are sorely in need of international criminal court investigation.

You let yourself be duped by Hamas' sacrificing Palestinians.

At the very least, refugee status should be granted to EVERY PALETINIAN... If the Israelis want land, then let them BUY IT. It would probably be cheaper than paying for all that war making equipment. The government of Israel is completely misguided. Who cast the first stone? There is no doubt that Israel will attempt eliminate Arab presence in all of Palestine eventually. We have watched this travesty play out for more than sixty years. Just because it has been persistent and will financed from outside, does not mean that it will last a lot longer.

Yeah, we have watched the Arabs attack, get defeated and be worse off and then repeat the cycle over and over.

Hamas and the IDF are just excuses for each other. The people of Gaza has no idea of what peace would be like, so all this talk of terrorism must mean nothing to them. We could go a long way toward resolving this issue, but we have to separate from this lock step support of the dispossession of the Palestinian people. Israel's true name for all Palestinians is simply misery. If they stop being that, there will be peace. Both sides need to have equal status and equal power. Perhaps we should send military hardware to the Palestinians. I don't really mean this, but if they were armed to the teeth, this silly horror would be closer to being ended. Israel has no reason to grant any concessions to the Arabs when they keep being outfitted with the weapons of conquest. We should at least stop that.

They pretty much had peace. They had a standard of living superior to that of any other Arab nation without oil. They threw it all away with the second intifada.

 

[laughing dog]

The % of their budget that goes to such payments shows that it must be widespread.

It is faulty reasoning to conclude that it must be widespread and that being widespread means that the PA pays the families of Hamas terrorists.

No contradiction--Israeli terrorists don't get paychecks for their actions. The bulldozing is a response to the paychecks.

This is faulty reasoning because it is focusing on the wrong aspect. It is the disincentive part your kneejerk apologia is ignoring. It is also ignores the obvious: the bulldozing has little to nothing to do with disincentives.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It is faulty reasoning to conclude that it must be widespread and that being widespread means that the PA pays the families of Hamas terrorists.

The article gave the % of the budget. Either the payments are huge or they're going to a lot of people.

No contradiction--Israeli terrorists don't get paychecks for their actions. The bulldozing is a response to the paychecks.

This is faulty reasoning because it is focusing on the wrong aspect. It is the disincentive part your kneejerk apologia is ignoring. It is also ignores the obvious: the bulldozing has little to nothing to do with disincentives.

You're just asserting this with no evidence.

 

[laughing dog]

The article gave the % of the budget. Either the payments are huge or they're going to a lot of people.

That is non-responsive. Why do you assume that being widespread means the PA pays the families of Hamas terrorists? And, as you admit, the payments may be large enough for them not to be widespread. Yet, you presume that they are widespread and that means it goes to Hamas terrorists as well.

You're just asserting this with no evidence.

Still evading the issue. I don't need disinterested evidence to show the faults in the "logic" of your position. Your responses ignore the disincentive part. If bulldozing homes of the families of terrorists is a disincentive for the terrorists, it is a disincentive for Israeli terrorists as well. Yet, the gov't of Israel does not bulldoze the homes of the families of suspected Israeli terrorists. That asymmetry suggests that "disincentives" plays little role, as does the bulldozing of the homes of suspected terrorists.