The Far Right heading across Europe?

[Derec]

What is the NY Times definition of a far right party? Border security with immigration control, safe cities, and sensible government spending did not used to be called "far right". But those values which used to be called moderate values are now called "far right" by most of the liberal media these days.

AfD is very much far right. They hold right-wing positions on issues outside of migration (gays, abortion, EU, etc.) and have done things like minimize the crimes done by Nazis.

And like far left "Alliance Sahra Wagenknecht" they are pro-Putin, leading to this Postillon (German Onion) article about them meeting for coalition talks in Moscow.
AfD und BSW treffen sich zu Sondierungsgesprächen in Moskau
Technically they would have enough for a majority, even if they are on the opposite ends of the horseshoe.

What is true is that the rise of AfD is definitely due to the migration crisis. Angela Merkel, the chancellor from the center-right CDU, opened the floodgates to mass migration of millions of Muslims in 2015, making the already ongoing problem of mass migration much worse. That was in 2015, and it was ridiculous. German women were told that they should dress more modestly because of these migrants, and on German state TB (ARD) a Muslim woman was triumphantly declaring that in future wearing the hijab is what it will mean to "be German". Since the left-of-center parties have been even more pro-migration (a Green Party politician said in the Bundestag speech that she longs for the day when Germans will lose majority status and become just one of many ethnic groups in Germany) there was really no mainstream party for anybody critical of mass migration to go to. That gave a huge boost to AfD. In 2013 they had only 4.7% and did not get into the Bundestag (generally, 5% is required). In 2017, they already jumped to 12.6%. The rise of AfD is the result of mainstream parties, especially center-right CDU not engaging seriously with the issue of mass migration.

 

[bilby]

What is true is that the rise of AfD is definitely due to the manufacturing of a migration crisis by the far-right.

FTFY.

The migration "crisis" is largely fictional, and is the 21st Century version of the equally fictional (and equally racist) "Jewish Problem" that enthralled political discourse a century earlier. The migration is real; The idea that it is a "crisis" thereby becomes easy to tack on without thinking.

There is migration, therefore there is a "Migration Crisis" that must be addressed; There are Jews, therefore there is a "Jewish Problem" that must be solved. Both are nonsense, but are incredibly useful propaganda if you are a far-right politician seeking power.

Migration is a net positive for destination countries; Unless their racist element are allowed to use it as a political lever to seize power.

Typically they do this by declaring the outgroup to be irreconcilably alien due to religious beliefs that the vast majority of that outgroup do not particularly care about, or at least have no particular interest in imposing on their neighbours. They use cartoonish imagery and simplistic sloganeering to win popular support, focussing narrowly on the tiny subset of extremists that can be found in any outgroup of sufficient size, and on trivial differences in culture, clothing, and physical appearance (most of which are absurdly exaggerated, or apply only to a small subset of the outgroup).

Of course, nobody here would stoop to using use cartoonish imagery and simplistic sloganeering to denigrate an outgroup. But it does happen, I am told.

 

[scombrid]

They certainly drink from the same fire hose these days. The inbred South African cunt and his buddies have the chatbots running hard and it’s no point trying distinguish between AFD in Germany and Doug Wilson Hegseth here in the US. They’ve been very effectively homogenized. At least that’s the way the bot messaging that swarms social makes it feel.

 

[Derec]

FTFY.

Nope.

The migration "crisis" is largely fictional, and is the 21st Century version of the equally fictional (and equally racist) "Jewish Problem" that enthralled political discourse a century earlier. The migration is real; The idea that it is a "crisis" thereby becomes easy to tack on without thinking.

The migration crisis is very much real, and trying to somehow make a false equivalence with Jewish people is completely unjustified.

Migration is a net positive for destination countries; Unless their racist element are allowed to use it as a political lever to seize power.

Whether migration is a net positive is wholly dependent on number of migrants and who these migrants are.
Mass migration is rarely beneficial under any circumstances. For example, the Celtic societies of the British Islands did not benefit from mass influx of Angels, Saxons and Jutes.
And in the case of the invasion of Europe, we have millions of mass migrants who are mostly uneducated and mostly Islamist.
There is nothing positive about this for "destination countries" in Europe.
What they love to do is rape.
Ten men convicted over gang rape in Germany
Afghan Illegal Migrants Convicted of Knifepoint Rape of Woman on Stargazing Date
Nigerian national who raped teenager wasn't deported to respect his human rights
Government 'cannot deport' grooming gang ringleader
And sometimes murder too.
Germany migrant jailed for life for murdering Freiburg student

In Europe, it's virtually impossible to deport these mass migrants, even if they committed serious crimes. Is it any wonder people look for alternatives?

Typically they do this by declaring the outgroup to be irreconcilably alien due to religious beliefs that the vast majority of that outgroup do not particularly care about, or at least have no particular interest in imposing on their neighbours.

Definitely does not apply to these Islamist invaders.

They care very much.

They use cartoonish imagery and simplistic sloganeering to win popular support, focussing narrowly on the tiny subset of extremists that can be found in any outgroup of sufficient size, and on trivial differences in culture, clothing, and physical appearance (most of which are absurdly exaggerated, or apply only to a small subset of the outgroup).

The differences are not trivial and the number of Islamists is not tiny.
There are legitimate concerns over mass migration, and mainstream parties should not have abandoned this entire issue to the far right nutjobs.

 

[Derec]

They certainly drink from the same fire hose these days. The inbred South African cunt

I assume you mean Musk. What evidence do you have that he is "inbred"?

And btw, inbreeding is common in the cultures your Ilk wants to import by countless millions into the West.

Over 60% in Pakistan. And that persists among Pakistanis in the UK.
Couple defend first-cousin marriages amid ban call

Who is really "inbred"?

 

[bilby]

They use cartoonish imagery and simplistic sloganeering to win popular support, focussing narrowly on the tiny subset of extremists that can be found in any outgroup of sufficient size, and on trivial differences in culture, clothing, and physical appearance (most of which are absurdly exaggerated, or apply only to a small subset of the outgroup).

...and apparently, they have zero shame about doing so, even when replying to a post in which they are called out for it.

Pathetic.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Do not forget that what is "right" in Europe is "center" in the US, and what is "center" in Europe is "left" in the US. Or so I've been told.

That's correct; And what is "far right" in Europe is "right" in the US.

Which is why everyone who is horrified by Trump, is also (so far, needlessly) worried by AfD, Reform, National Rally, One Nation etc., etc.

We saw all this ninety years ago, but that time around the USA fascist far right were a marginal (though well funded) group, whereas this time they are in control of the Whitehouse and both chambers of Congress.

It still ended in world war.

So we agree, the "far right" in Europe is merely right wing and not actually far right.

Calling Trump "far right" and saying you are "horrified" also makes sense, as none of his ideology has changed since he switched from Democrat to Republican.

 

[southernhybrid]

https://theconversation.com/the-far...europe-what-will-this-mean-for-ukraine-282724

The above link doesn't require any signing up and this is what I had hoped would be discussed in this thread. Anyone with a working brain knows that Trump is a totally deranged, incompetent president, regardless of his political views. He's an extreme narcissist, who doesn't even do the job of a president. His cognition is rapidly declining. It's all about him, his name wherever he can place it, but his incompetency is not what I had hoped would be discussed. I don't think this right wing movement is due to Muslims or immigrants. There is more behind it, including spreading lies on social media and maybe someone here has an actual good understanding as to why so many democracies are being threatened by what appears to be a pretty far right or shall we just say, right wing movement. The link was written a few months ago, but the election in Germany is more evidence that things aren't going well for Europe. I don't know that much about most of the right wing politicians in Europe although I have read a bit about a few. So, if anyone here actually is willing to make a rational argument about why this is happening, I'm listening, or will listen when I have time. Good luck!

In recent local elections in the United Kingdom and Australia, right-wing populism has appeared to be on the march. Support has surged for the Reform UK and One Nation parties.

Media speculation about a future Prime Minister Nigel Farage, or even a Prime Minister Pauline Hanson, is no longer off limits. Right-wing populists are already in power in other countries in Europe, such as Italy.

The next big electoral tests for the far right in Europe will be in Germany and France.

Is this surge in Europe real, and how successful can far-right parties be in actually getting elected?

A far-right Italy – and Austria may be next​

The most successful transformation of far-right populism in a large European country has been Giorgia Meloni’s Brothers of Italy. It won the most votes in the 2022 election and leads a right-wing coalition government.

The party has a fascist history, anti-immigration rhetoric and attempts at concentrating power. Despite this, Meloni has managed to somewhat normalise her government in Europe by strongly backing the European Union, NATO and Ukraine (in contrast to some other far-right parties).

In Austria, the platform of the far-right Freedom Party includes xenophobic and Eurosceptic propaganda and opposition to EU climate policies. It also opposes support for Ukraine and sanctions against Russia.

It has been in government as a junior partner previously, but won the 2024 elections with almost 29% of the vote. Although it was kept out of power by a coalition of centrist parties, it seems only a matter of time before it leads a government in Vienna.

The far right surging in France and Germany​

Parties such as National Rally in France and Alternative for Germany (AfD) have historically undermined the European Union, while aligning themselves with the growing autocratisation and authoritarianism of Putin’s Russia.

Two regional German elections are due in September, where Alternative for Germany are leading polls.

National Rally candidates are also preforming strongly in polls for France’s presidential election due in April 2017.

In other words, right-wing populists may soon acquire significant executive power in the EU’s two most influential countries. This could affect Europe’s future commitments to Ukraine.

Cosying up to Russia​

In Germany, the AfD proposes ending military aid for Ukraine, ending sanctions on Russia and restoring Russian fossil fuel imports.

The party’s main focus is on restricting immigration and asylum. It promotes “remigration”. This radical idea proposes up to two million “unassimilated German citizens” could be “relocated” to a “model state” in North Africa, while sharply reducing immigration and restricting asylum.

The party has been labelled an “extremist entity” by Germany’s federal domestic intelligence agency.

 

[bilby]

Do not forget that what is "right" in Europe is "center" in the US, and what is "center" in Europe is "left" in the US. Or so I've been told.

That's correct; And what is "far right" in Europe is "right" in the US.

Which is why everyone who is horrified by Trump, is also (so far, needlessly) worried by AfD, Reform, National Rally, One Nation etc., etc.

We saw all this ninety years ago, but that time around the USA fascist far right were a marginal (though well funded) group, whereas this time they are in control of the Whitehouse and both chambers of Congress.

It still ended in world war.

So we agree, the "far right" in Europe is merely right wing and not actually far right.

Not only do we NOT agree on that; I am really struggling to grasp how you could possibly have concluded that I would agree with that, based on the stuff I actually wrote.

Have you suffered a recent blow to the head?

Calling Trump "far right" and saying you are "horrified" also makes sense, as none of his ideology has changed since he switched from Democrat to Republican.

Trump is far right; Any sane person would be horrified that he has been allowed the slightest power over anything, much less the presidency of the USA, and I neither know nor care what changes his ideology may have gone through, nor what political parties he has been a member of in the past.

Trump joins organisations (including political parties) for the same reason he does anything else - because he hopes that doing so will make him richer, more powerful, or more respected (though he has no grasp that "respect" and "fear" are different things).

I honestly couldn't give a flying fuck about either of the parties in the US two-party system, and your parochial focus on your own country's party politics, as though it were important to those of us fortunate enough not to live in the USA, I find pathetic, small-minded, and utterly unsurprising.

It is a certainty that the US system is incapable of supporting more than two significant parties for any reasonable length of time, and that the consequent desperate lack of a left wing voice in US politics has massively harmed the vast majority of the American people.

The only solution within the current constraints of the US Constitution is to vote D, in the (folorn) hope of dragging the Overton window to the left.

A better solution would be to re-write the constitution and drag the US kicking and screaming into the twentieth century; But we all know that won't happen without a bloody revolution.

I am astonished that American workers have not yet brought out the guillotines - but then, we see examples around the world of how hard it is for the people to overthrow their rulers. As it is in China, Russia and Iran, so it is in the USA.

American workers are insanely tolerant of horrific pay and conditions. It's as if they don't have access to guns or ammo - but we know that's not true.

The real problem is how easy it is for those responsible for the shit to deflect blame, onto immigrants, Muslims, foreigners, and even transsexuals.

Everyone is the enemy, except those hard working job creators in their gilded palaces, who clearly have nothing to do with the massive inequality of wealth.

 

[barbos]

No other party will form a coalition with the AfD.

Patently false. Sahra Wagenknecht said she would. And her party overcame 5% barrier.

 

[Derec]

Two more former East German states voted today. It was a victory not just for the far right (AfD) but also the far left (Die Linke). For orientation, here's a map of Germany:

In Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, a largely rural state on the Baltic coast, AfD managed to more than double their vote share. Most other parties, other than BSW (Sahra Wagenknecht's splitter party) but apparently not enough to make it to 5%. Biggest loser is CDU, which looks like to be <5% as well, and thus will have to leave the Landtag (state parliament).


From here.

The state has been governed by an SPD-Linke coalition. It does not look like it will be enough for a majority, so either they will try a minority government or invite the Greens to join them.

Stay tuned for Berlin next.

 

[Derec]

Berlin obviously is the capital, but also a city-state - one of three, along with Hamburg and Bremen. Thus its mayor (Bürgermeister) has the rank of governor (Ministerpräsident).



From here.

Most parties lost, but there were big gains for both AfD and Die Linke, which more than doubled its share. I think Die Linke is more dangerous than AfD because AfD is shunned, while Die Linke has been part of state governments (See Mecklenburg-Vorpommern above).

Berlin has been governed as a CDU/SPD coalition. Now, it looks like either CDU/Greens/SPD ("Kenya", because of the flag) or Linke/Greens/SPD.