The God Zoo

[DBT]

I cant find God saying "child rape" is good anywhere.

Ordering massacres, genocide and rape - keep the virgins for yourselves after you butcher the rest of the tribe including their livestock - is a matter of endorsing massacre, genocide and rape. You know the verses.

No.
I dont 'know' the verses.
Show me God saying "child rape" IS good.

The atom bomb isnt good and yet the ostensibly good allies in WW2 used it to massacre thousands.
Obama was/is thought of as a good person and yet he has commanded the killing of human beings.

Where did I mention 'child rape?'

 

[Lion IRC]

Where did I state that you did?

 

[DBT]

Where did I state that you did?

You asked - ''Show me God saying "child rape" IS good'' - which implies that someone made that claim or said something to that effect. Otherwise, why ask the question?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Where did I state that you did?

You asked - ''Show me God saying "child rape" IS good'' -

And then, there you go, down the usual rabbit hole of defending your comments, though Lion did not actually accuse you of making that comment. Not exactly.
It's not a mistake, it's a feature. He ties you up in straightening out what was and wasn't said, and the argument never gets dealt with. Or even acknowledged.

I suggest sticking to what you DID say, if he ever deals with it honestly, and ignore the bullshit, or just ignore Lion as a dishonest apologist.

 

[DBT]

I don't really expect anything to be addressed. Considering it puts the faith to question, how could it? Maybe it's just a matter of curiosity as to how Lion IRC deals with the issue on this occasion.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

No.
I dont 'know' the verses.
Show me God saying "child rape" IS good.

The atom bomb isnt good and yet the ostensibly good allies in WW2 used it to massacre thousands.
Obama was/is thought of as a good person and yet he has commanded the killing of human beings.

Where did I mention 'child rape?'

Numbers 31
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

 

[Lion IRC]

Where did I state that you did?

You asked - ''Show me God saying "child rape" IS good'' - which implies that someone made that claim or said something to that effect. Otherwise, why ask the question?

Yes, someone DID make a claim to that effect.

''You know what would be the optimal course of action to maximize the amount of good here? Child rape, that's what".

 

[Lion IRC]

Numbers 31
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

War is horrible.
God thinks so too.
And in the bible, the only time God intercedes in human warfare is to hasten the END of said war.
Look at every biblical war - all started by humans.

 

[abaddon]

War is horrible.
God thinks so too.

God commanded the slaughter in those verses.

An impartial reader would not conclude God thinks war is horrible.

And in the bible, the only time God intercedes in human warfare is to hasten the END of said war.
Look at every biblical war - all started by humans.

Keeping some context in mind, the Bible clearly states the slaughter is God taking vengeance on those people.

BTW, you skipped over how the virginal girls were kept alive "for yourselves".

You don't see a problem there?

If you say, as Learner did, that it's ok because they married them before fucking them and that's legal, then that's just more evidence that the bible's god isn't good.

 

[DBT]

Yes, someone DID make a claim to that effect.

''You know what would be the optimal course of action to maximize the amount of good here? Child rape, that's what".

Though not explicitly stated, there are bible verses that support the claim. Not to mention genocide, war and murder.....as long as it isn't a fellow Israelite, to whom the law, thou shalt not kill/murder, applies.

 

[Lion IRC]

War is horrible.
God thinks so too.

God commanded the slaughter in those verses.

That's right. The end justifies the means.
Nothing to apologise for here.

An impartial reader would not conclude God thinks war is horrible.

If God enjoyed war He wouldnt intervene to put an end to wars.

And in the bible, the only time God intercedes in human warfare is to hasten the END of said war.
Look at every biblical war - all started by humans.

Keeping some context in mind, the Bible clearly states the slaughter is God taking vengeance on those people.

Punishment isnt vengeance but if that's your semantic take, so be it.

BTW, you skipped over how the virginal girls were kept alive "for yourselves".

You don't see a problem there?

I never 'skip' over any part of God's Word.
And I've already affirmed that war as depicted in the bible IS horrible.
Victims of war. War slaves. Spoils of war. That is the unvarnished historical truth.
Shall we take a look at the combatants and see whether Israels' enemies did anything to try and avoid war?
I love bible study. Lets see whether the horror of virgins being taken as war trophies was a sufficient disincentive for the bloodthirsty enemies of Israel - who apparently werent bothered by the prospect of that happening to their women.

If you say, as Learner did, that it's ok because they married them before fucking them and that's legal, then that's just more evidence that the bible's god isn't good.

I dont call it rape but if you want to define it in some statutory manner I accept that, yes, there has to have been some coercion. There may also have been some grateful relief. It's conceivable that those unmarried virgins viewed the Israelites as a little bit more civilized, and wealthier and cleaner.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Yes, someone DID make a claim to that effect.

''You know what would be the optimal course of action to maximize the amount of good here? Child rape, that's what".

Ya, that was me. It was in response to your claim that seemingly evil things are necessary because a greater good would result from the event and you used the analogy of a surgeon cutting off someone's arm in order to save the patient's life, so it's wrong to ignorantly call it evil.

My question was how things like child rape would fit into your claimed structure of the world. They are actions which seem objectively evil, the same as someone cutting off an arm would be, but your thesis is that they lead to a greater good so it's ignorant to call the child rape evil. I cannot see how.

What is a scenario where God would look down on the world, see a child getting raped and say to himself "I'm allowing this and choosing not to intervene in response to that child's prayers for help because it is the optimal way to lead to a better outcome than would have been possible without the child rape"? I don't see such a scenario existing, but you clearly do and I'm curious what it would be.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

That's right. The end justifies the means.

Funny how you're the one pushing the "ends justify the means" idea rather than us atheists. Quite funny.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Numbers 31
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

War is horrible.
God thinks so too.
And in the bible, the only time God intercedes in human warfare is to hasten the END of said war.
Look at every biblical war - all started by humans.

Uhmmmmm.... Have you ever read the Bible's minor prophets? Micah, Zecharia, etc ? Yahweh is a God of war.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Deuteronomy 20:17 -- But you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord your God has commanded. Etc., etc. etc. A god who commands genocide is a primitive artifact from an earlier historic era. In today's world, outside of the Biblical context, we don't see this kind of language outside of discussions of the Wannsee Conference or the insanity of Pol Pot. That it's fictional doesn't excuse it.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

See Luke 14
²³ And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.

The parable of the great feast. Augustine created and entire ideology around this parable to deal with pesky heretics. If it took force to bring them back to the right Catholic church, so be it. This doctrine was used for forced conversions and heresy hunts and inquisitions for centuries. This resulted in centuries of brutality, savagery, crusades and mass murders.

This thoughtless parable of Jesus has probably been one of the worst set verses in the NT.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Even worse is MT 27:25, where the Jewish mob tells Pilate, as no mob ever told anyone, "Let the penalty for his death fall on us and our children!" Try to imagine those words coming as a group chant, in a superstitious age. Written by a vengeful evangelist, and used to justify centuries of ghettoized Jewish communities, forced conversions, and pogroms.

 

[Lion IRC]

Deuteronomy 20:17 -- But you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord your God has commanded. Etc., etc. etc. A god who commands genocide is a primitive artifact from an earlier historic era.
In today's world, outside of the Biblical context, we don't see this kind of language outside of discussions of the Wannsee Conference or the insanity of Pol Pot. That it's fictional doesn't excuse it.

We can and we will defeat those who threaten the safety and security not only of our own people but of those all around the world," he added.
Obama pledged to destroy the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/274045-obama-we-must-unite-to-destroy-isis

 

[ideologyhunter]

Since does "defeat" equal exterminate? Joshua was given mission of murdering babies, children, mothers, elderly, not to mention livestock.

 

[Lion IRC]

I'm sure "destroy" means destroy.
And I dont recall any gender specific exemptions from Obama for "those who threaten the safety and security not only of our own people but of those all around the world"