The idea of an infinite past

[untermensche]

No sir. You speak of process, events in time. The two tied at the hip.

Like Heraclitus argued for perpetual change is almost exactly your position.

So not only can I read I can come up with others who laid out these positions. What you fail to do is to understand that improperly joined through an invention of an imaginary unnecessary thing that supports process. What we call cause and effect may be no more than nows which is just as consistent with QM where there is order but no time. In that scenario it is clearly possible there are many worlds, universerses, sharing in producing the illusion of time. What you try to do is to so constrain explanation as to force it to a single untenable construction. In the timeless world, from a time perspective process and completion is not meaningful. Perhaps there is another dimension or seven we need take into account to explain what appears to be beginning and ending.

You are waving your arms and jumping up and down.

It's a spectacle and amusing but it isn't an argument.

Infinite events are not an amount of events that can complete.

Period. End of story.

 

[fromderinside]

I'm not waving or jumping at all. I just presented original arguments on the topic. You fall into the illusion group. Sorry. Just sayin'

 

[untermensche]

I'm not waving or jumping at all. I just presented original arguments on the topic. You fall into the illusion group. Sorry. Just sayin'

The delusion is thinking there could be a real infinity.

And you have no argument showing one is possible.

 

[DBT]

You have no argument to show that infinity or eternity is impossible, only a flawed set of assumptions which you appear to repeat infinitely.

 

[untermensche]

You have no argument to show that infinity or eternity is impossible, only a flawed set of assumptions which you appear to repeat infinitely.

I do have an argument.

Infinity and a completed series are not compatible. No infinite series completes.

The series of events in the past are complete at every present moment. At a present moment no more events in the past will occur. They have all completed.

Looking at the series of events in the past from a present moment we can clearly see they are not compatible with the concept of infinity.

You have no answer to this.

That is why you drone on and on about unrelated unconnected side issues.

Infinity is a magic concept if applied to something real. Something that goes on without end. It is not a real world concept. It can be used in mathematics.

 

[DBT]

You have no argument to show that infinity or eternity is impossible, only a flawed set of assumptions which you appear to repeat infinitely.

I do have an argument.

Infinity and a completed series are not compatible. No infinite series completes.

The series of events in the past are complete at every present moment. At a present moment no more events in the past will occur. They have all completed.

Looking at the series of events in the past from a present moment we can clearly see they are not compatible with the concept of infinity.

You have no answer to this.

That is why you drone on and on about unrelated unconnected side issues.

Infinity is a magic concept if applied to something real. Something that goes on without end. It is not a real world concept. It can be used in mathematics.

What you have is a set of assertions based on your own terms and conditions. Several posters on this forum have already pointed out the problems with both your terms and conditions and assertions.....which do not make an argument.

 

[fromderinside]

Untermenche what is completion? Didn't think so. I understand now since I experience it continuously. Past and future are just not now. Or do you have a definition that is operable? Didn't think so.

Define terms, you haven't, before you use them as elements of argument. Oh, you can't? Thought so.

 

[untermensche]

You have no argument to show that infinity or eternity is impossible, only a flawed set of assumptions which you appear to repeat infinitely.

I do have an argument.

Infinity and a completed series are not compatible. No infinite series completes.

The series of events in the past are complete at every present moment. At a present moment no more events in the past will occur. They have all completed.

Looking at the series of events in the past from a present moment we can clearly see they are not compatible with the concept of infinity.

You have no answer to this.

That is why you drone on and on about unrelated unconnected side issues.

Infinity is a magic concept if applied to something real. Something that goes on without end. It is not a real world concept. It can be used in mathematics.

What you have is a set of assertions based on your own terms and conditions. Several posters on this forum have already pointed out the problems with both your terms and conditions and assertions.....which do not make an argument.

I have arguments.

And you can't deal with any of them.

You have nothing to offer here.

And nobody has pointed out one problem. Some have left in a childish rage after failing to address anything. Some with magical claims like if we just call an infinite series a set it can by magic be complete.

 

[untermensche]

Untermenche what is completion? Didn't think so. I understand now since I experience it continuously. Past and future are just not now. Or do you have a definition that is operable? Didn't think so.

Define terms, you haven't, before you use them as elements of argument. Oh, you can't? Thought so.

Completion in terms of events in time means they have occurred. They have completed.

If we were to imagine some event, like the turning over of a card, completion would be when a card is turned over.

And infinite time would mean that infinite cards were turned over.

Something that will never complete.

It is impossible that infinite cards were turned over in the past or could be turned over in the future or under any circumstances. It is not something that can occur.

Infinite time is not something that can occur. No matter how much time passes it is never "infinite time". It certainly didn't occur in the past.

 

[Juma]

Untermenche what is completion? Didn't think so. I understand now since I experience it continuously. Past and future are just not now. Or do you have a definition that is operable? Didn't think so.

Define terms, you haven't, before you use them as elements of argument. Oh, you can't? Thought so.

Completion in terms of events in time means they have occurred. They have completed.

If we were to imagine some event, like the turning over of a card, completion would be when a card is turned over.

And infinite time would mean that infinite cards were turned over.

Something that will never complete.

It is impossible that infinite cards were turned over in the past or could be turned over in the future or under any circumstances. It is not something that can occur.

Infinite time is not something that can occur. No matter how much time passes it is never "infinite time". It certainly didn't occur in the past.

Define ”never”.

 

[DBT]

What you have is a set of assertions based on your own terms and conditions. Several posters on this forum have already pointed out the problems with both your terms and conditions and assertions.....which do not make an argument.

I have arguments.

And you can't deal with any of them.

You have nothing to offer here.

And nobody has pointed out one problem. Some have left in a childish rage after failing to address anything. Some with magical claims like if we just call an infinite series a set it can by magic be complete.

That is your assessment and your opinion. Those who participated in pointing out the error of your assumptions would most likely disagree.

 

[untermensche]

Untermenche what is completion? Didn't think so. I understand now since I experience it continuously. Past and future are just not now. Or do you have a definition that is operable? Didn't think so.

Define terms, you haven't, before you use them as elements of argument. Oh, you can't? Thought so.

Completion in terms of events in time means they have occurred. They have completed.

If we were to imagine some event, like the turning over of a card, completion would be when a card is turned over.

And infinite time would mean that infinite cards were turned over.

Something that will never complete.

It is impossible that infinite cards were turned over in the past or could be turned over in the future or under any circumstances. It is not something that can occur.

Infinite time is not something that can occur. No matter how much time passes it is never "infinite time". It certainly didn't occur in the past.

Define ”never”.

not ever

 

[untermensche]

What you have is a set of assertions based on your own terms and conditions. Several posters on this forum have already pointed out the problems with both your terms and conditions and assertions.....which do not make an argument.

I have arguments.

And you can't deal with any of them.

You have nothing to offer here.

And nobody has pointed out one problem. Some have left in a childish rage after failing to address anything. Some with magical claims like if we just call an infinite series a set it can by magic be complete.

That is your assessment and your opinion. Those who participated in pointing out the error of your assumptions would most likely disagree.

You have pointed out no errors in my argument.

You have done nothing but deflect to other arguments. Bad arguments that I have shown to be bad. You call an unknown a problem and pretend you have some problem. Worthless.

Infinity is not a quantity. It is not something that can be achieved. In the real world it does not exist except as an accepted mathematical concept where it is useful.

 

[DBT]

That is your assessment and your opinion. Those who participated in pointing out the error of your assumptions would most likely disagree.

You have pointed out no errors in my argument.

You have done nothing but deflect to other arguments. Bad arguments that I have shown to be bad. You call an unknown a problem and pretend you have some problem. Worthless.

Infinity is not a quantity. It is not something that can be achieved. In the real world it does not exist except as an accepted mathematical concept where it is useful.

You studiously and meticulously ignore and deflect your problem of infinite regression. Despite your deflections, the fact that it is your claim that everything that exists, that is detectable, must have a beginning and a cause, must apply to each and every cause and each and every beginning....unless you have something from nothing (which you reject), so you -according to your own terms and conditions- are left with infinite regression, the very thing you seek to refute.

There lies just one of your terminal problems, based on your own rules and principles.....which you brush aside as being an ''unknown'' or ''irrelevant'' all the while pretending that you have made a point, haha.

 

[untermensche]

Infinite regression is a problem for those who claim the past was infinite.

A finite past has a finite progression.

No problem.

There is just the unknown of how the finite progression began.

 

[fromderinside]

So how can one complete going to the past to determine if it is infinite? As you say, it's over so not ever. You are just a jumble of logical inconsistencies.

Every thing you use to justify the past occurs in the present so it isn't in the past at all. It is current memory. I can turn over a card but that 'event' is actually an infinite number of events from the card being picked up to it being placed back down when it has been turned. There is no minimum time for an event so what you call an event can be divided into an infinite number of nows which are all events.

Like I said your argument need operations to nail them down.

 

[untermensche]

If a series completes you know for certain it was finite.

An infinite series never completes.

 

[Elixir]

If a series completes you know for certain it was finite.

And if it doesn't complete, YOU DON'T.

I think you should go argue your case at the "The myth of an ending" thread. At least people might appreciate your reassurances, flawed though they may be.

 

[untermensche]

All the events in the past do complete.

They complete at every present moment.

At a present moment all past events have completed. The only events that will occur are future events.

 

[DBT]

Infinite regression is a problem for those who claim the past was infinite.

A finite past has a finite progression.

No problem.

There is just the unknown of how the finite progression began.

I didn't say that you said or claimed that the past is infinite. I pointed out that infinite regression is implied in the things you have said - everything that exists must have a beginning and a cause, etc. Now you can deny this as much as you like but the problem of infinite regression that is related to what you said does not miraculously vanish.