The Illusion of Self

[untermensche]

meh, speak a thousand words about this.
View attachment 32875

Your legs experience happiness?

Fine.

"I" experience happiness. And I am not my legs. I experience my legs. They are a thing I experience. Not a thing that experiences.

You have special legs.

 

[none]

meh, speak a thousand words about this.
View attachment 32875

Your legs experience happiness?

Fine.

"I" experience happiness. And I am not my legs. I experience my legs. They are a thing I experience. Not a thing that experiences.

You have special legs.

oh fuck
let me guess, your penis never experienced pleasure
is just a weird word attached to your disconnected consciousness that nobody likes

 

[untermensche]

oh fuck
let me guess, your penis never experienced pleasure
is just a weird word attached to your disconnected consciousness that nobody likes

When I stub my toe I experience the pain as if it is in my toe.

But I experience pain and pleasure. Not the body parts. They can't experience.

It is strange to say your leg experiences happiness.

 

[none]

oh fuck
let me guess, your penis never experienced pleasure
is just a weird word attached to your disconnected consciousness that nobody likes

When I stub my toe I experience the pain as if it is in my toe.

But I experience pain and pleasure. Not the body parts. They can't experience.

It is strange to say your leg experiences happiness.

strange as it may be I can show you where it feels good
duh

 

[untermensche]

oh fuck
let me guess, your penis never experienced pleasure
is just a weird word attached to your disconnected consciousness that nobody likes

When I stub my toe I experience the pain as if it is in my toe.

But I experience pain and pleasure. Not the body parts. They can't experience.

It is strange to say your leg experiences happiness.

strange as it may be I can show you where it feels good
duh

How do you know it feels good?

 

[none]

strange as it may be I can show you where it feels good
duh

How do you know it feels good?

experience

 

[untermensche]

strange as it may be I can show you where it feels good
duh

How do you know it feels good?

experience

Yes.

You experience the sensation.

Not your little wiener.

 

[DBT]

I do not accept your absurd notion that a separation between that which experiences from that which it experiences implies an homunculus.

Your hand waving that it does is a mere unsupported claim.

To experience requires a separation.

It requires something (not a homunculus, a consciousness) that CAN experience things.

And it requires the things that consciousness can possibly experience.

If there is experience then this separation exists. It must exist.

And there is no doubt. I do experience.

I am experiencing a desperate and bad argument from you now.

You imply separation even while you deny it.

If you agree that self is a part and parcel of brain generated experience, that self is a brain generated experience, what is your point?

I don't imply. I state absolutely there is a separation between the conscious mind and all it experiences.

There must be.

And it is not a little man.

It is a mind.

You don't want to accept that a mind experiences blue. It experiences all things. That is reality.

Sorry.

If it is the brain that forms and generates conscious mind and experiences, as it does, there is no separation.

Conscious mind is an experience composed of many facets, self in relation to the events you experience. These are facets of consciousness.

Your belief in a separation between mind and ecperience is absurd. Basically, you have a poor understanding of the subject matter.

 

[none]

experience

Yes.

You experience the sensation.

Not your little wiener.

yes
I've had an experience where my penis feels good.
strange?

 

[untermensche]

experience

Yes.

You experience the sensation.

Not your little wiener.

yes
I've had an experience where my penis feels good.
strange?

No.

You have all experiences.

That is all you have.

 

[none]

yes
I've had an experience where my penis feels good.
strange?

No.

You have all experiences.

That is all you have.

oh my, I have very little patience at this point.

 

[untermensche]

yes
I've had an experience where my penis feels good.
strange?

No.

You have all experiences.

That is all you have.

oh my, I have very little patience at this point.

You have little patience, not your legs.

 

[none]

oh my, I have very little patience at this point.

You have little patience, not your legs.

they just took me for a walk

 

[fromderinside]

...It is an awareness of sensation arising form stimulation of receptors...

Awareness is always some thing aware of some other thing.

I am aware.

There is not just awareness.

There is me too.

Yes. It's called self awareness and it arises in the same manner as does sensation except it is reporting on what systems are doing and what sensing is occurring together forming options for behavior in a continuously changing collage of awareness. Do you really believe that is you?

Go away.

 

[untermensche]

...It is an awareness of sensation arising form stimulation of receptors...

Awareness is always some thing aware of some other thing.

I am aware.

There is not just awareness.

There is me too.

Yes. It's called self awareness and it arises in the same manner as does sensation except it is reporting on what systems are doing and what sensing is occurring together forming options for behavior in a continuously changing collage of awareness. Do you really believe that is you?

Go away.

It is much easier to know what some thing in front of us is than to know how it arose.

It is much easier to study the human pelvis than to know exactly how it arose.

How things arise is usually just a subjective guess.

But you MUST know what something is before you can even speculate on how it arose.

We have no clue what the mind is or what the phenomena of experience (consciousness) that takes place in the mind is.

Your claims to know how something arose without even knowing what that something is is laughable.

You are very funny.

 

[untermensche]

 

[DBT]

You don't think that brain activity is responsible for generating consciousness?

 

[untermensche]

I think consciousness is a biological phenomena.

Associated with an active brain but not with any known activity.

Consciousness is not an electrical effect. If it were MRI's would distort it greatly.

It is not something a computer can attain either. Computers don't have minds with internal thoughts. Human software cannot create a mind.

It is a totally unknown phenomena.

We have not yet begun to climb the mountain necessary to explain it.

We have no idea where to start except it has something to do with an active brain.

 

[DBT]

I think consciousness is a biological phenomena.

Associated with an active brain but not with any known activity.

Consciousness is not an electrical effect. If it were MRI's would distort it greatly.

It is not something a computer can attain either. Computers don't have minds with internal thoughts. Human software cannot create a mind.

It is a totally unknown phenomena.

We have not yet begun to climb the mountain necessary to explain it.

We have no idea where to start except it has something to do with an active brain.

Not with any known activity? Why would you believe that? Is normal brain activity just for show? A charade?

 

[untermensche]

Not with any known activity? Why would you believe that? Is normal brain activity just for show? A charade?

We have no model of consciousness based on electrical activity.

We have no model of consciousness based on cellular activity.

We have no model of consciousness base on the movement of blood through the brain.

We have no model of consciousness period.

It is not associated with any known activity.