The Illusion of Self

[DBT]

An expression of self is generated by the brain in response to a need, fear or want.

 

[DBT]

There is no separation. Brain activity is part and parcel and function of a brain. There is no mind/consciousness when a brain ceases to be functional.

Sure there is separation.

I experience green.

I am not green and green is not me.

Separation.

The experience of green is generated by the brain, just as conscious self is. The brain forms the experience of you experiencing green.

 

[untermensche]

There is no separation. Brain activity is part and parcel and function of a brain. There is no mind/consciousness when a brain ceases to be functional.

Sure there is separation.

I experience green.

I am not green and green is not me.

Separation.

The experience of green is generated by the brain, just as conscious self is. The brain forms the experience of you experiencing green.

I am not an experience.

I am that which is aware of experiences.

What people have called consciousness for a long time.

You have not dispensed with the conscious mind that experiences.

That is the reality of the world.

 

[DBT]

The experience of green is generated by the brain, just as conscious self is. The brain forms the experience of you experiencing green.

I am not an experience.

I am that which is aware of experiences.

What people have called consciousness for a long time.

You have not dispensed with the conscious mind that experiences.

That is the reality of the world.

You imply a homunculus. The presence of a self, apart from the brain, having the experience of self and the world was discredited long ago. The brain, as pointed out, is the source of experience, generating a mental representation of self awareness within a mental representation of the world.

You are a part of the experience of consciousness.

 

[fromderinside]

Self is any set of mechanisms that ensure one does not succumb to other, die due to invasion. It is labeling a molecule as other, using other as food defending against other taking over what is one in any aspect. Given that self mechanisms probably lead to the rise of awareness, ultimately creating consciousness that leads one to experience stuff. It is a powerful device for preserving one, keeping one alive. It comes down the genetics for just a bunch of chemical and neurons working to sustain a particular life form.

It's not you, really.

 

[untermensche]

The experience of green is generated by the brain, just as conscious self is. The brain forms the experience of you experiencing green.

I am not an experience.

I am that which is aware of experiences.

What people have called consciousness for a long time.

You have not dispensed with the conscious mind that experiences.

That is the reality of the world.

You imply a homunculus. The presence of a self, apart from the brain, having the experience of self and the world was discredited long ago. The brain, as pointed out, is the source of experience, generating a mental representation of self awareness within a mental representation of the world.

You are a part of the experience of consciousness.

Consciousness means one thing being conscious of some other thing.

Awareness mans one thing being aware of another thing.

Experience means one thing experiencing some other thing.

This is reality and you can't do away with it by saying the word "homunculus".

There is no homunculus or little man inside the brain. I have never implied it. You are irrationally using the concept to try to wipe away reality.

Shame!

To experience is for one thing to experience some other thing.

The mind experiences blue. Blue is not the mind and the mind is not blue. This separation can't be eliminated.

 

[untermensche]

Self is any set of mechanisms that ensure one does not succumb to other, die due to invasion. It is labeling a molecule as other, using other as food defending against other taking over what is one in any aspect. Given that self mechanisms probably lead to the rise of awareness, ultimately creating consciousness that leads one to experience stuff. It is a powerful device for preserving one, keeping one alive. It comes down the genetics for just a bunch of chemical and neurons working to sustain a particular life form.

It's not you, really.

It is me.

It is me that just read what you wrote and thinks it is absurd.

I experience.

There cannot just be experience.

Experience is one thing experiencing some other thing. There must be a separation or there cannot be experience.

 

[untermensche]

The self is not a little man.

The self does not have eyes. It is that which experiences vision.

The self does not have arms. It is what experiences having arms and all that goes with having arms.

Nobody is proposing a little man when they say the self is that which is aware of all things. And aware of them in an individual unique way.

There is no little man proposed when it said that experience is one thing experiencing some other thing.

 

[Angry Floof]

This is not intended as a response to the thread questions or anyone's post in particular. Just seems fitting.

 

[untermensche]

Just because the self is somehow generated by a biological process, meaning temporary process, that does not mean it is not an "entity".

It is just not an entity like other entities.

It took billions of years of evolution to arrive.

 

[DBT]

You imply a homunculus. The presence of a self, apart from the brain, having the experience of self and the world was discredited long ago. The brain, as pointed out, is the source of experience, generating a mental representation of self awareness within a mental representation of the world.

You are a part of the experience of consciousness.

Consciousness means one thing being conscious of some other thing.

Awareness mans one thing being aware of another thing.

Experience means one thing experiencing some other thing.

This is reality and you can't do away with it by saying the word "homunculus".

There is no homunculus or little man inside the brain. I have never implied it. You are irrationally using the concept to try to wipe away reality.

Shame!

To experience is for one thing to experience some other thing.

The mind experiences blue. Blue is not the mind and the mind is not blue. This separation can't be eliminated.

Your wording implies a homunculus. Your wording implies a division between an experiencer and their experience, when in fact the self is itself an experience.

 

[DBT]

Just because the self is somehow generated by a biological process, meaning temporary process, that does not mean it is not an "entity".

It is just not an entity like other entities.

It took billions of years of evolution to arrive.

The self is there as long as the brain is generating it.

 

[untermensche]

You imply a homunculus. The presence of a self, apart from the brain, having the experience of self and the world was discredited long ago. The brain, as pointed out, is the source of experience, generating a mental representation of self awareness within a mental representation of the world.

You are a part of the experience of consciousness.

Consciousness means one thing being conscious of some other thing.

Awareness mans one thing being aware of another thing.

Experience means one thing experiencing some other thing.

This is reality and you can't do away with it by saying the word "homunculus".

There is no homunculus or little man inside the brain. I have never implied it. You are irrationally using the concept to try to wipe away reality.

Shame!

To experience is for one thing to experience some other thing.

The mind experiences blue. Blue is not the mind and the mind is not blue. This separation can't be eliminated.

Your wording implies a homunculus. Your wording implies a division between an experiencer and their experience, when in fact the self is itself an experience.

Your bad reading is not an argument. A division does not imply a homunculus.

An homunculus has eyes. It has a head. It has arms and legs.

They are all just smaller than the external human.

Nowhere am I proposing an homunculus.

That is all you have to try to escape your irrational thinking and wanting to avoid the reality of existence.

I experience blue.

Therefore I am not blue and blue is not me. A separation exists whether you like it or not.

This cannot be escaped with absurd appeals to homunculi.

 

[untermensche]

Just because the self is somehow generated by a biological process, meaning temporary process, that does not mean it is not an "entity".

It is just not an entity like other entities.

It took billions of years of evolution to arrive.

The self is there as long as the brain is generating it.

So?

 

[fromderinside]

Just because the self is somehow generated by a biological process, meaning temporary process, that does not mean it is not an "entity".

It is just not an entity like other entities.

It took billions of years of evolution to arrive. ... in its current forms.

It is the result of a biological process called evolution. It is a culmination of changes over time from it's primitive beginnings to the networks it is today in most every living thing with a spine. If it is just current information it is not self but a current instance of it's status as a growing living material biological machine tending to keeping one as one, in other words keeping itself being.

You really need to get a grip and your philosophy isn't very good either.

 

[untermensche]

Just because the self is somehow generated by a biological process, meaning temporary process, that does not mean it is not an "entity".

It is just not an entity like other entities.

It took billions of years of evolution to arrive. ... in its current forms.

It is the result of a biological process called evolution. It is a culmination of changes over time from it's primitive beginnings to the networks it is today in most every living thing with a spine. If it is just current information it is not self but a current instance of it's status as a growing living material biological machine tending to keeping one as one, in other words keeping itself being.

You really need to get a grip and your philosophy isn't very good either.

You have no idea where or how the ability to experience begins.

Reacting is not experiencing.

Being stimulated by is not experiencing.

To experience blue is not to be stimulated by colorless energy.

 

[DBT]

Your wording implies a homunculus. Your wording implies a division between an experiencer and their experience, when in fact the self is itself an experience.

Your bad reading is not an argument. A division does not imply a homunculus.

An homunculus has eyes. It has a head. It has arms and legs.

They are all just smaller than the external human.

Nowhere am I proposing an homunculus.

That is all you have to try to escape your irrational thinking and wanting to avoid the reality of existence.

I experience blue.

Therefore I am not blue and blue is not me. A separation exists whether you like it or not.

This cannot be escaped with absurd appeals to homunculi.

I don't think that you understand the implications of your own wording. I could try to explain, but I don't think it would help.

For a start, no doubt a waste of time, my use of homunculus is not literally a little man inside your head, rather, it refers to your implied separation between self and experience, a self experiencing as if the self itself is separate from what is being experienced instead of being part and parcel of the faceted nature of experience.

 

[DBT]

Just because the self is somehow generated by a biological process, meaning temporary process, that does not mean it is not an "entity".

It is just not an entity like other entities.

It took billions of years of evolution to arrive.

The self is there as long as the brain is generating it.

So?

So self is a part and parcel of brain generated experience.

 

[untermensche]

So?

So self is a part and parcel of brain generated experience.

The only question is whether the self is a real distinct "entity".

And it is.

I (the self) have experiences, am aware of them.

I am not an experience.

 

[untermensche]

For a start, no doubt a waste of time, my use of homunculus is not literally a little man inside your head, rather, it refers to your implied separation between self and experience, a self experiencing as if the self itself is separate from what is being experienced instead of being part and parcel of the faceted nature of experience.

Yes. You absurdly call reality a homunculus so you don't have to look at it.

Consciousness is ONE THING being conscious of OTHER THINGS.

Awareness is ONE THING being aware of OTHER THINGS.

Experience is ONE THING experiencing OTHER THINGS.

This is not in doubt in any way.