The inner world of a prostitute

[DrZoidberg]

Two years ago I moved to Copenhagen. Denmark is a country where prostitution has been fully legalised since 1999. As a result it's become completely normalised. About the same time I moved over I made friends with one such sex worker. I met her in a bar and asked her what she did and she just told me frankly with zero shame. Which seems to be how it works here. Danes are extremely relaxed about it. Over time we've grown to become quite close friends. This Easter she organised a getaway in a country cabin for her friends, most of which also were prostitutes, and invited me.

It was interesting to get a peak into the inner workings of the prostitute's minds. It was the first time I was surrounded by prostitutes who were off the clock, relaxing and just having fun. As well as the others who were their friends, both men and women.

The girl who invited me (my friend) has got an incredibly sharp eye for reading people. Ie, a "people person". This was typical for all of the prostitutes. They were all four steps ahead of where things were going in conversation. Their bodies were incredibly relaxed. I do a lot of power lifting, so have gotten and given a lot of massages. I've never comes across athletic people this damn relaxed in their bodies. I'm not sure what the significance is. But being tense is associated with having stressful jobs. Clearly they didn't feel their jobs were stressful. Which surprised me.

They discussed sex a lot. They were all well read on the psychology of sex and were extremely knowledgeable. Philosophy and such. They discussed how to handle various clients just like I would do in my job (in IT). It was so matter of fact and obvious, I don't understand why I found it surprising.

One of them had a career as an successful accountant. Pulling in tonnes of cash. But was miserable. Went to a tantra course where her sexuality was awakened and found it impossible to go back to her accounting job. She found it soul destroying. So switched career to become a prostitute. Which she finds fulfilling. Albeit, worse paid. But she thought it was worth it.

My friend is a trained massage therapist, with her own practice (still active and is her job when she's on her period). She's still the go to girl for bodybuilders who want a seriously good masseuse. But now has a shortage of hours because she has another preferred profession, prostitution.

It was similar stories for all the girls. None of them were forced into this. It was a career they switched to for various and sensible reasons. They all have jobs to go back to if this doesn't work out.

They also made me realise that it's a very hard job. Just being a hot girl isn't good enough. This shit is hard. They're basically professional psychologists, just with no formal education. Men who have erectile dysfunction turn to prostitutes, rather than psychologists to help them out (obviously) and these girls know exactly how to fix it. It makes me realise how stupid it is that prostitution is ever illegal anywhere. I mean... how else is a psychologist supposed to cure something like this unless they can sleep with the client/patient. We live in a very stupid world. Prostitutes don't get nearly enough respect. They deserve the respect any other qualified job gets. It is not a no skill job.

Anyhoo... I just thought I'd share this peek into a world few ever get to see.

I'm not really arguing for anything. It's not that kind of thread. I'm just sharing.

Other than that people who think trafficking will go up if we legalised prostitution are retarded. Of course it won't. It didn't in Denmark. It went down. Of course.

 

[rousseau]

I've been following a woman who's done a PhD in sex work on Twitter for some months now, and she's really changed the way I look at prostitution. Before I had little to no opinion, but now I get where they're coming from, and can see how this kind of thing is often framed in the media.

Basically the gist is: sex work is real work, and there should be no stigma surrounding that. And also many people who think they're 'saving' prostitutes are actually just taking away their livelihood.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I've been following a woman who's done a PhD in sex work on Twitter for some months now, and she's really changed the way I look at prostitution. Before I had little to no opinion, but now I get where they're coming from, and can see how this kind of thing is often framed in the media.

Basically the gist is: sex work is real work, and there should be no stigma surrounding that. And also many people who think they're 'saving' prostitutes are actually just taking away their livelihood.

Yes. I'm guessing the people who have a problem with prostitution are mostly just women who feel threatened by other women sexually available to their husbands. And it's that damn inane.

BTW, these women all had waiting lists. They had the ability to select customers. I recall my friend once calling me and asking me if I wanted to go for a beer, because she'd just cancelled with a client. When I asked her why she said "I got the feeling he just wanted to fuck. Just anything. Rather than me specifically. I wasn't feeling him. Didn't feel good. So I told him to leave". I wasn't aware it worked that way at all.

 

[DrZoidberg]

This is a good blog on sex work. It's the researcher Laura Augustin who kills off myths.

https://www.lauraagustin.com/

These are also great. The prostitutes union of Sweden. A great resource of research. I have a bit of a mancrush on Pye Jakobsson. The leader. She's awesome. It's purely platonic crush. I admire her from a distance

http://www.rosealliance.se

 

[southernhybrid]

I've never been friends with a sex worker, but I've always been in favor of legalization. Out of curiosity, I've visited forums for sex workers and the women either seemed content with their work, or they felt it was much better than other jobs that they had held, such as waitressing, or working in retail. They loved the freedom of choosing their own hours and here in the states, they can usually make more money working just a few days a week than they can working full time in many other professions. Those that didn't have professional careers prior to doing sex work, were only making 8 or 9 dollars an hour in their former jobs.

One of the more empowering things about female sex workers is that they make a lot more money than male sex workers.

Some of the sex workers on the forums talked about how they loved providing services for handicapped people, who would never have the opportunity to have sexual experiences if it wasn't for their work. I had never thought about that issue before reading their very compassionate outlook. Some of their clients were totally disabled, and some were paralyzed. I know from personal experience inserting catheters that even men who are quadriplegic are still capable of obtaining erections because I had that happen at least once when I was catheterizing a young male quad. These sex workers also served female who were homosexual and suffered from handicaps. How can anyone not appreciate that compassion is beyond me. It's not something that I would want to do, but there are a lot of jobs that I would never want to do, and I've had strangers tell me that they appreciated my work as a nurse, but they could never do my kind of work for a living either.

I know there are women who are forced into doing sex work, but from what I've read, those are the minority and legalizing sex work hasn't increased sex trafficking. It's decreased it by a small percentage. In other words, legalizing things that some people disprove of, doesn't seem to change things. It's like drugs. When they become legal, drug usage doesn't change, it just makes it safer. Portugal is the best example of that.

I use the term sex worker because I have had the impression that is the term that most sex workers like to be called. Anyone ever watch the excellent Netflix show called, "After Life" staring Ricky Gervais? He has a friend who is a sex worker, but he refers to her as a prostitute and she always corrects him by saying she's a sex worker. This thread just made me think of that show, although it wasn't necessary for me to mention it. I just felt like it.

I do have a question about the sex workers in Denmark. Many years ago, I had read that there are older women who are still involved in that line of work. I'm talking about women over 60. Is that still true? It makes sense to me, since a lot of sex workers serve older men, and the older men are often lonely, feel isolated and long for female companionship, as well as sex. I would think some of them would feel more comfortable with a woman closer to their own age. Despite the claims that older men prefer younger women, I actually received a lot more attention from men once I was over 50. ( flirting or hitting on me ) And, I've known plenty of older women who married or dated men who were much younger than them. So, in your experience Dr. Z, are there many older sex workers in Denmark? If not, how do younger sex workers transition, once their services are no longer in demand?

 

[James Brown]

I would expect sex workers would regularly have to deal with clients falling in love with them.

 

[Toni]

I've never been friends with a sex worker, but I've always been in favor of legalization. Out of curiosity, I've visited forums for sex workers and the women either seemed content with their work, or they felt it was much better than other jobs that they had held, such as waitressing, or working in retail. They loved the freedom of choosing their own hours and here in the states, they can usually make more money working just a few days a week than they can working full time in many other professions. Those that didn't have professional careers prior to doing sex work, were only making 8 or 9 dollars an hour in their former jobs.

One of the more empowering things about female sex workers is that they make a lot more money than male sex workers.

Some of the sex workers on the forums talked about how they loved providing services for handicapped people, who would never have the opportunity to have sexual experiences if it wasn't for their work. I had never thought about that issue before reading their very compassionate outlook. Some of their clients were totally disabled, and some were paralyzed. I know from personal experience inserting catheters that even men who are quadriplegic are still capable of obtaining erections because I had that happen at least once when I was catheterizing a young male quad. These sex workers also served female who were homosexual and suffered from handicaps. How can anyone not appreciate that compassion is beyond me. It's not something that I would want to do, but there are a lot of jobs that I would never want to do, and I've had strangers tell me that they appreciated my work as a nurse, but they could never do my kind of work for a living either.

I know there are women who are forced into doing sex work, but from what I've read, those are the minority and legalizing sex work hasn't increased sex trafficking. It's decreased it by a small percentage. In other words, legalizing things that some people disprove of, doesn't seem to change things. It's like drugs. When they become legal, drug usage doesn't change, it just makes it safer. Portugal is the best example of that.

I use the term sex worker because I have had the impression that is the term that most sex workers like to be called. Anyone ever watch the excellent Netflix show called, "After Life" staring Ricky Gervais? He has a friend who is a sex worker, but he refers to her as a prostitute and she always corrects him by saying she's a sex worker. This thread just made me think of that show, although it wasn't necessary for me to mention it. I just felt like it.

I do have a question about the sex workers in Denmark. Many years ago, I had read that there are older women who are still involved in that line of work. I'm talking about women over 60. Is that still true? It makes sense to me, since a lot of sex workers serve older men, and the older men are often lonely, feel isolated and long for female companionship, as well as sex. I would think some of them would feel more comfortable with a woman closer to their own age. Despite the claims that older men prefer younger women, I actually received a lot more attention from men once I was over 50. ( flirting or hitting on me ) And, I've known plenty of older women who married or dated men who were much younger than them. So, in your experience Dr. Z, are there many older sex workers in Denmark? If not, how do younger sex workers transition, once their services are no longer in demand?

I've read the opposite about legalization decreasing forced prostitution--that it increases sex trafficking/forced prostitution. This is the primary reason that I am opposed to legalization. I would feel differently, as well, if numerous sources had not cited 15 (one or two a little older or a little younger but mostly 15) as being the average age that a prostitute begins sex work. At 15, we don't allow people to operate motor vehicles or perform other dangerous tasks. 15 year olds are not mature enough nor do they have the legal status that allows them to effectively advocate for themselves.

I have known a few women who worked as prostitutes although one would not have seen herself as a prostitute although she engaged in sex in exchange for money and expensive gifts. But she was fully adult, if somewhat...unstable (not a judgment based upon her prostitution gigs but on other...behaviors I noticed and she described.) Another was a girl I knew from elementary school until we or I graduated from high school. I'm pretty sure she dropped out but not 100%. She had a very sad and difficult home life. Her mother died when she was young and her father later remarried a woman who was....not a good person. Not that her dad seemed like a good person, either. She was so starved for anything remotely resembling love or affection that she was certain that her 'boyfriend' just found her so hot he had to share her with men and he needed the money and oh, she hid drugs for him in intimate parts of her body. She was so many different kinds of fragile and damaged which made her extremely vulnerable to the pimp who pretended to care for her as long as he could use her. From the little I could gather from very old facebook posts, she seems to have been able to get herself into a more stable way of living (not necessarily referring to prostitution here--she was a mess and it was horrifying and heartbreaking) at least for a while but honestly, I don't know.

So that's the other part of the equation for me: young girls who are very vulnerable due to family situations and/or mental illness/and/or substance abuse being exploited and put at serious risk for all kinds of violence and damage for the profit of other people, starting at ages too young to legally consent to sex in the first place. After spending your adolescence being used, it is hard to imagine how, at age 18 or 20 (still adolescent but legally adult) you are very well able to imagine any other kind of life. Which is very much how many people follow their fathers onto factory lines or stay in farming or a host of other occupations, mostly reserved for men.

I very much understand and have a great deal of sympathy for those who are handicapped and otherwise would not be able to have a sexual relationship. On the other hand, I know a number of people with handicaps, some significant, who manage to have a good sex life without a prostitute. Of course this is extremely individual.

I'm not in any way disputing the experiences of others but I am laying out why I believe the way that I do.

 

[steve_bank]

Heard of the book and movie The Happy Hooker? Her arrest and revelations of client's was a big scandal in the day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xaviera_Hollander

In 1968 she resigned from her job as secretary of the Dutch consulate in Manhattan to become a call girl,[1] where she made $1,000 a night. A year later she opened her own brothel, the Vertical Whorehouse, and soon became New York City's leading madam. In 1971 she was arrested for prostitution by New York Police and forced to leave the United States


In 1971 Hollander published a memoir, The Happy Hooker: My Own Story. Robin Moore, who took Hollander's dictations of the book's contents, came up with the title, while Yvonne Dunleavy either transcribed the book[3] or ghostwrote it.[6] Hollander later wrote a number of other books and produced plays in Amsterdam. Her book Child No More is the story of losing her mother. For 35 years she wrote an advice column for Penthouse magazine entitled Call Me Madam.[7]

 

[J842P]

I recently moved to the San Francisco Bay Area, and prostitution, while illegal here, is pretty openly tolerated. I've met several sex workers who, as you say, brought it up in casual conversation. Something that, coming from the East Coast of the United States, was pretty jarring at first, but sex workers are organized and part of the community.

 

[steve_bank]

I recently moved to the San Francisco Bay Area, and prostitution, while illegal here, is pretty openly tolerated. I've met several sex workers who, as you say, brought it up in casual conversation. Something that, coming from the East Coast of the United States, was pretty jarring at first, but sex workers are organized and part of the community.

It was those Puritans who landed at Plymouth Rock. In the 80s I took a vacation to Montreal and took a walk down St Catherine St, strip clubs. Far more relaxed and stigma free than the Northeast.

I was watching a TV commercial in French. Two couples at a table. One guy is talking cool and snaps his fingers. A box of condoms flies across the screen and into his hand. The other guy snaps his fingers and an unwrapped condom flies across the screen and hits him in the4 head.

Pretty funny, and I doubt you would see it on any mainstream TCV show adverting here today.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I would expect sex workers would regularly have to deal with clients falling in love with them.

But I also suspect they get a lot of practice in how to deal with it. It's not an unsolvable problem. It's a question of clear communication.

A customer wants/has to negotiate with the masculine, but fuck the feminine. Otherwise it'll go all wrong. So a prostitute needs to have the capacity to switch between these two gender roles. It means they need to acknowledge how the genders are different and understand the differences. So they need to be firmly grounded and not harbour any fantasies about how the genders are the same. It was quite refreshing to talk to someone who had a razor sharp understanding of how gendered behaviour worked and could talk about it so matter of factly, complete with examples. I guess it's just a matter of practice. Any prostitute with any other ideas wouldn't be able to do their jobs.

The difference lies in that it's the role of the feminine to add mystery, and chaos. Make it interesting. While the masculine is predictable and stable. It's the contrast between these that makes sex good. So the prostitute needs to be in the feminine while fucking, or the sex will suck. But for a man it adds a hell of a lot of bullshit to put up with when it comes to getting laid. Bullshit the men are paying, to not have to deal with. So a prostitute has to find a way to be both. So the customer will be in love with the feminine. Once she switches to the masculine, all love interest has a way of dying fast. BTW, they didn't explain this at this weekend. My friend explained this a long time ago. Just repeating it here.

 

[southernhybrid]

I've read the opposite about legalization decreasing forced prostitution--that it increases sex trafficking/forced prostitution. This is the primary reason that I am opposed to legalization. I would feel differently, as well, if numerous sources had not cited 15 (one or two a little older or a little younger but mostly 15) as being the average age that a prostitute begins sex work. At 15, we don't allow people to operate motor vehicles or perform other dangerous tasks. 15 year olds are not mature enough nor do they have the legal status that allows them to effectively advocate for themselves.

I appreciate another woman adding her opinion, even if we disagree. Everything that I have read about the legalization of sex work, shows that there is a slight decrease in sex trafficking once sex work has become legalized. I think it's about 10%, but I would have to look it up, when I have more time to be sure that's the number.

The way I look at it that a woman should not be punished if she chooses this line of work. In the US, it's almost always the woman who is arrested, and not the client. That seems unfair to me. When it's legal, the women can do their work without remaining in fear of being charged. It gives the work more dignity once it becomes legal.

As far as working conditions in brothels, of course they need to be improved, but so does the working environment in many other areas which are dominated by females. I remember one nursing job that I had back in the late 70s where the hospital had unfilled positions for 58 nurses. The work was brutally stressful, as I worked on an as needed basis. I did get to choose my own schedule, which I liked, but I never knew where I would be placed, once I arrived at work. From what I've read online from other nurses who work in hospitals and some other areas of nursing, working conditions often remain brutal. There are often staffing shortages etc.

While I'm not comparing professional nursing to sex work, in some ways, there is overlap. By that I mean, both nurses and sex workers provide an intimate type of service to people in need. I don't look down on women who do sex work just because it's something that I personally wouldn't find enjoyable. But, for me, it's a feminist issue to allow other women to choose this line of work. Those who choose this line of work, should not be punished because others are forced and/or treated badly.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I appreciate another woman adding her opinion, even if we disagree. Everything that I have read about the legalization of sex work, shows that there is a slight decrease in sex trafficking once sex work has become legalized. I think it's about 10%, but I would have to look it up, when I have more time to be sure that's the number.

A lot of studies just go with official statistics without enough discussion on what those numbers mean. Laura Augustin has a whole section on her blog where she talks about problems of collecting statistics on trafficking.

https://www.lauraagustin.com/category/trafficking-smuggling

All they're measuring is how often migrant prostitutes say they've been trafficked after their brothel has been raided.

Here's an excellent example of what I'm talking about. In 1999 Denmark decriminalised all prostitution. Buying and selling. Sweden decriminalised selling sex, while criminalising buying sex. In Sweden sex trafficking went down while up in Denmark. In trafficking the women are forced. So their incentives shouldn't matter, only the brothel owner. So what's going on?

If selling sex is legal in the country you are working in but you don't have a work permit you are breaking the law. So any prostitute checked by the police has an incentive to say they were forced even if they weren't. Because victims are not criminals, so are welcome back to the country, (to do more prostitution work). This makes the numbers extremely unreliable.

Why are the trafficking flows going to Denmark? Because the Swedish system is dangerous to prostitutes. In Sweden customers refuse to give personal information to the prostitutes. This means that violent customers are harder to stop and harder to report to the police. While in Denmark there's a whole police task force working with making their jobs safe. It's in everybody's interest to cooperate with the police. So the prostitutes travelling around Europe are picking Denmark over Sweden, simply for safety reasons. But both say they've been trafficked when they get caught by the police.

I'm not saying trafficking doesn't exist. But the numbers are most likely incredibly over-blown. I suspect very few of those in the trafficking statistic are actually trafficking victims.

Anyhoo... you got to analyse the numbers. The same kind of calculation mistake makes it look like Sweden has a rape epidemic. It doesn't.

 

[rousseau]

A search on Google Scholar turned up this article on the impact of legalization, which looks pretty good.

I don't know if trafficking should be considered in isolation, though, you're measuring it against the impacts on legal workers. And that aside - if there is no moral reason a woman shouldn't be able to use her body how she pleases, on what grounds can you make it illegal for her? The crime isn't prostitution, it's trafficking.

 

[Toni]

A search on Google Scholar turned up this article on the impact of legalization, which looks pretty good.

I don't know if trafficking should be considered in isolation, though, you're measuring it against the impacts on legal workers. And that aside - if there is no moral reason a woman shouldn't be able to use her body how she pleases, on what grounds can you make it illegal for her? The crime isn't prostitution, it's trafficking.

There's the thing: how many adults enter prostitution willingly?

We do restrict what people can do with their bodies. Try lobbing off your own arm and see where you end up besides an ER. We restrict the ability of people to get tattoos and piercings without parental consent until they are 18 (most sources say prostitutes begin the work on average at age 15) and heavily regulate tattoo parlors--for very good reason. We restrict the consumption of alcohol and tobacco and forbid the consumption of a whole variety of substances.

 

[rousseau]

A search on Google Scholar turned up this article on the impact of legalization, which looks pretty good.

I don't know if trafficking should be considered in isolation, though, you're measuring it against the impacts on legal workers. And that aside - if there is no moral reason a woman shouldn't be able to use her body how she pleases, on what grounds can you make it illegal for her? The crime isn't prostitution, it's trafficking.

There's the thing: how many adults enter prostitution willingly?

We do restrict what people can do with their bodies. Try lobbing off your own arm and see where you end up besides an ER. We restrict the ability of people to get tattoos and piercings without parental consent until they are 18 (most sources say prostitutes begin the work on average at age 15) and heavily regulate tattoo parlors--for very good reason. We restrict the consumption of alcohol and tobacco and forbid the consumption of a whole variety of substances.

That's a good question worth exploring.

But wouldn't the underage problem be an issue of regulation and enforcement, though? I don't see how legalization has anything to do with teens being forced into prostitution, either way this problem is going to happen. But if you're an adult, and consent to sell your body, on what grounds should you be stopped?

 

[Toni]

A search on Google Scholar turned up this article on the impact of legalization, which looks pretty good.

I don't know if trafficking should be considered in isolation, though, you're measuring it against the impacts on legal workers. And that aside - if there is no moral reason a woman shouldn't be able to use her body how she pleases, on what grounds can you make it illegal for her? The crime isn't prostitution, it's trafficking.

There's the thing: how many adults enter prostitution willingly?

We do restrict what people can do with their bodies. Try lobbing off your own arm and see where you end up besides an ER. We restrict the ability of people to get tattoos and piercings without parental consent until they are 18 (most sources say prostitutes begin the work on average at age 15) and heavily regulate tattoo parlors--for very good reason. We restrict the consumption of alcohol and tobacco and forbid the consumption of a whole variety of substances.

That's a good question worth exploring.

But wouldn't the underage problem be an issue of regulation and enforcement, though? I don't see how legalization has anything to do with teens being forced into prostitution, either way this problem is going to happen. But if you're an adult, and consent to sell your body, on what grounds should you be stopped?

Why aren't laws prohibiting underage prostitution enforced now? There are laws against prostitution, laws against sex with someone under the age of consent and in the US, no one is considered of age to consent to prostitution under the age of 18. I do not buy that law enforcement is unable to enforce laws against prostitution now or against teenagers being prostitutes because it's so hidden. I am pretty certain that if you don't already know where you could purchase the services of a prostitute in your location, you could find out within 5 minutes. So could the police.

Moreover, legalization seems to normalize the idea that girls and women can be purchased to be used for sex whenever a male wishes to do so, that it is the right of males to have access to females whenever they want. As long as you throw some cash at them, the girls and women themselves do not matter.

From what I have read, legalization increases rather than decreases illegal prostitution and trafficking. Instead it being like a WalMart out competing all the local businesses, it is more like, one bar seems to make it seem like a great location to put a second bar. Or same thing with Starbucks.

There is a thriving market for young adolescent girls (and boys) to be used for sex. Also for younger kids. There are stings in my area more or less annually. Hint: if a 15 year old girl is offering herself over the internet, it's probably a 40 year old law enforcement agent.

 

[southernhybrid]

Well, we could use the same argument for using alcohol. Should all adults be denied legally buying and drinking alcohol, because minors also use it illegally? Of course, we are entitled to our own opinions on this issue, but after looking into the positives and negatives of legalizing sex work, to me, it seemed like legalization was the better option for women, as well as for the smaller percentage of men who also enter this line of work.

What would be ideal is for legalization with excellent regulation to make this line of work safer. Requiring a license, that included a mandatory course in self defense, ways to practice safe sex which limit the spread of STIs, and perhaps a few other things to assure that workers are protected by safe practice guidelines.

A sex worker who is abused by a client is likely to report that client to the police if the work is legal, but may not be willing if the work is illegal. To me, that's another reason why legalization has the potential to make the work safer for women. I just don't see the downside to making sex work legal. I know that some feminists, like Gloria Steinem. for example, disagree with my position and while she is one of my favorite feminists, not all feminists agree on all things. I do wonder if such feminists have ever interviewed women who choose and enjoy this profession.

And yes Toni, it would be much better if our laws against the exploitation of children and teens were better enforced, but I personally don't see how that relates to women who choose to work as sex workers. Children are often abused and exploited in many ways and our system often fails those children. It has failed many children who are brutalized by their own parents, but again I don't see a correlation with child abuse and legalization of sex work. There were always be unfit parents, and amoral people who exploit others, including children.

 

[southernhybrid]

Moreover, legalization seems to normalize the idea that girls and women can be purchased to be used for sex whenever a male wishes to do so, that it is the right of males to have access to females whenever they want. As long as you throw some cash at them, the girls and women themselves do not matter.

If this is what the women choose to do, why is that a problem? There are also men who work as sex workers too, so it's not strictly a female line of work. Plus, a woman who chooses this line of work, especially when it's legal, can choose who to take on as a client, what types of sex she offers etc. if she decides to work independently. Shouldn't a women be the one who decides whether or not she wants so sell sexual services? Do you think that all the clients of hair dressers, dental hygienists, private practice NPs etc. are cared about by all of their clients? I would imagine that men who use the same sex worker probably do care about them, at least as much as men care about the other women who provide them with personal services. I don't see it as the woman is denigrating her body. She is simply selling a sexual service, and if she's acting as an independent contractor, she's the one who decides which services she has to offer. I guess I just don't see sexual service as much different than any other personal service. Maybe that's where you and I differ. But, I think we both strongly agree that this line of work should be voluntary and the women who enter it should be able to practice their work in a safe environment. Much work needs to be done in this area. I've heard that some brothels in Las Vegas need to improve the way the women are treated. Well, women can unionize, or at least support each other and refuse to work for managers that don't treat them fairly. But, that can be said about all lines of work. Nurses who have unionized have been treated better. Some nurses in California came up with the concept of a "Code Pink", long before this became a female political movement. A Code Pink was called whenever a male physician was harassing a female nurse. The idea was that the nurse would call a Code Pink and other nurses would come to defend her from the doctor who was acting inappropriately. We women in female dominated professions always have to deal with shit form men. We need to be strong, and united.

And, just to add an anecdote.....Many years ago, there was a member of IIDB who took total care of his dependent wife, who suffered from a neurological disease. I think it was MS. One day she told her husband to go out and find a sex worker and enjoy himself as she was no longer able to participate in sex with him. He took her advice and thanked her for giving him permission to enjoy himself. I thought his wife must be a wonderful, caring, selfless person to be able to give her husband permission to occasionally receive sex from someone who chose to offer that service, when the wife herself was no longer able. He was an older man who had always been loyal to his wife. She just wanted to show her appreciation to him. That's love imo.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I've read the opposite about legalization decreasing forced prostitution--that it increases sex trafficking/forced prostitution. This is the primary reason that I am opposed to legalization. I would feel differently, as well, if numerous sources had not cited 15 (one or two a little older or a little younger but mostly 15) as being the average age that a prostitute begins sex work. At 15, we don't allow people to operate motor vehicles or perform other dangerous tasks. 15 year olds are not mature enough nor do they have the legal status that allows them to effectively advocate for themselves.

And if it were legal it would be a lot harder for those 15 year olds to work as a prostitute. In a realm where it's legal few people are going to take the risk of going to an illegal prostitute. (And note that those 15 year old prostitutes are mostly coming from very bad homes. Fix the real problem, the prostitution is a symptom.)