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The "me-ness" of being me

I disagree. Would you say that I am you without the memories?
You are you’re memories and special wiring of your brain.

Suppose you were kidnapped by a mad scientist. He tells you that he is about to perform a series of invasive experiments on you without your consent and without anesthesia. You immediately recoil in anticipation of the horrible things you imagine him doing to you! But then he gets more specific: the first thing he will do is rewire your brain so that your current memories and personality will be lost, and then he will start prying off your fingernails and sticking needles in your eyelids. You sigh in relief at this information, knowing that the person whose fingernails and eyelids will be tortured will have different memories and brain wiring than you, so you have no reason to anticipate going through such agony. Is this an accurate representation of your view so far?

Then, suppose he tells you that he has created an exact replica of your current body and brain, and the replica is strapped to a gurney in the adjacent lab. While he's busy performing his painful manipulations on you (after rewiring your brain), his assistant will be performing the same sorts of experiments on your replica in the adjacent room, but WITHOUT having rewired its brain. Since there will now be a person with your memories and brain wiring that experiences the torture of being operated on while wide awake--even though this person has a different body and is in a different location than you now--you again are filled with dread for the ensuing experience! Am I still accurately reflecting your views?
 
Okay, so you, and presumably the cartoon, seem to argue that there only needs to be one me for everybody. Is that an accurate implication?

If so, then there is still a sense of me that is not you in the present without the use of memories (assuming the present is what we think it is). If this consciousness were truly universal, I should have a simultaneous present experience of multiple consciousnesses, not just one. In other words, I should feel (me should feel) not quite omniscient but rather "multiscient" (for lack of a real term, lol) but more than just a singular subjectivity.

Why? Even under the ordinary view of things, you do not have direct access to all of the experiential states you consider yours. If you get very drunk and do something stupid at a party but don't remember it the next day, you still feel guilty about it even though you have neither the memory nor the immediate sensation of what your past self did. And in all the examples of brain bisection, the right hemisphere and left hemisphere have independent experiences even though they are both the experiences of the same person. What I am suggesting is to take these implications to their logical conclusion, namely that something can be you even if its experiences are not integrated within a single boundary. Just as you would rightly say that you did perform some stupid stunt while you were drunk, you can use the same reasoning to say you do experience what is happening in multiple brains--but from the perspective of each one, you only have access to its integrated content.

I agree with what you are saying, and I was not saying otherwise. The subjective "me" (or the individual illusion of a local me) of is my consciousness. Cut out a part of my brain that is storing a memory and you will still have this me. Cut off my ear, feet etc. you still have me.

What you said doesn't change anything about what I said.

Are you and the cartoon saying that there is only one me in the universe instead of a me for each person?

Access, or integration, is a physical phenomenon. Information can only travel through time and space if the channels are there to enable such communication. But even assuming I am wrong, and you are just Ryan, you (Ryan) STILL only have access to part of you: the part that you consider to be happening right now. Your only access to other parts, including those that you are not even aware of right now (such as the fact that 2x3=6) is through memory recall, which still takes place in your immediate experience as a sensation, a first-person perception. And even that access is not perfect or complete by any means. Yet, you have no trouble calling even the parts that are missing yours, so long as you can be reasonably certain they were experienced in the immediate and internal way that characterizes all your experiences. So, this notion that in order for something to be you, all of its experiential ingredients must be at your fingertips all the time, is flawed and incoherent from the start.


There are only moments of experience taking place in different substrates, at different times, in different places. No criteria related to the objective identity of any brain, its physical composition, or its DNA are sufficient to establish which of these moments of experience belong to you. The only quality that you can use to make this designation is the actual first-person nature of your experience, even if you cannot magically summon that quality across physical barriers at an instant's notice. You must conclude, then, that since all experience is presented in this first-person and immediate way (having dispensed with any notion that the substrate, time, or place of its occurrence is a relevant factor), all experience is happening to you.

Okay, but let's make clear what "you" means in this last sentence of yours. That's what I was trying to get at.

So is there a universal me and also a subjective me, by integration, somehow existing simultaneously? Or is there just the universal me?
 
I agree with what you are saying, and I was not saying otherwise. The subjective "me" (or the individual illusion of a local me) of is my consciousness. Cut out a part of my brain that is storing a memory and you will still have this me. Cut off my ear, feet etc. you still have me.

I was saying a bit more than that; I was saying that if you cut off a piece of your brain with your memories and personality represented in it and put it into another body, that person would also be you.

What you said doesn't change anything about what I said.

Are you and the cartoon saying that there is only one me in the universe instead of a me for each person?

Yes; just like there is not a separate "literature" for every written work, but just one, that exists as long as there is at least one example of it.

Access, or integration, is a physical phenomenon. Information can only travel through time and space if the channels are there to enable such communication. But even assuming I am wrong, and you are just Ryan, you (Ryan) STILL only have access to part of you: the part that you consider to be happening right now. Your only access to other parts, including those that you are not even aware of right now (such as the fact that 2x3=6) is through memory recall, which still takes place in your immediate experience as a sensation, a first-person perception. And even that access is not perfect or complete by any means. Yet, you have no trouble calling even the parts that are missing yours, so long as you can be reasonably certain they were experienced in the immediate and internal way that characterizes all your experiences. So, this notion that in order for something to be you, all of its experiential ingredients must be at your fingertips all the time, is flawed and incoherent from the start.


There are only moments of experience taking place in different substrates, at different times, in different places. No criteria related to the objective identity of any brain, its physical composition, or its DNA are sufficient to establish which of these moments of experience belong to you. The only quality that you can use to make this designation is the actual first-person nature of your experience, even if you cannot magically summon that quality across physical barriers at an instant's notice. You must conclude, then, that since all experience is presented in this first-person and immediate way (having dispensed with any notion that the substrate, time, or place of its occurrence is a relevant factor), all experience is happening to you.

Okay, but let's make clear what "you" means in this last sentence of yours. That's what I was trying to get at.

So is there a universal me and also a subjective me, by integration, somehow existing simultaneously? Or is there just the universal me?

Drop the idea that there is anything important about Ryan. That organism is just one conscious being, and you are any conscious being. You think that you are only Ryan because part of being Ryan (or any individual organism) is that only the information coming through from that particular conduit is presented to you in an integrated way. But you are still experiencing everything that is being presented through the other conduits, the other neurological inputs that are not integrated with Ryan. So, I'm not saying that all experience belongs to the organism that is Ryan, but that it belongs to you, which is much more than just Ryan.

Also, Ryan happens to be my name too.
 
By the way, this view of personal identity is also the only way to counter the fine-tuning argument for creationism.

The usual response to that argument is to posit a multiverse of randomly varying universes, each with different physical constants and forces, etc. This would almost guarantee that a universe such as ours would emerge by chance. But this argument is not sufficient, because it still cannot explain why THIS universe has such features. If it did not, we would not be here to wonder about it, goes the refrain...

Time said:
But that last point is surely useless: That we could not have been in our universe if it were in that respect different cannot possibly tell us why specifically our universe happened not to be different (happened not to fail to be anthropic, as did the vast majority of universes), with us indeed not being here. That would have been immensely more probable. That we would then not have been here to ask about its failure makes it not one bit less probable that it would fail. [...] To eliminate the anthropic coincidence from our view, as rationality regarding the probabilities requires, we must loosen the conditions for personal identity, so that you, the observer, would automatically be in any of the universes in which the right conditions occurred.

So, it's like having to flip a coin and have it land on heads 1,000 times in a row in order to escape your prison cell; even if there are trillions of billions of other prisoners engaged in their own attempts at the same thing, it doesn't make it any more likely that YOU will be able to do it. From your perspective, being conscious in an anthropic universe is still a huge fluke, unless whoever managed to get the 1,000 heads in a row would simply be you anyway. Thus universalism about personal identity is a requirement for explaining our place in a universe hospitable for life, without invoking a cosmic designer.
 
By the way, this view of personal identity is also the only way to counter the fine-tuning argument for creationism.

The only way?

I guess it depends on how seriously one buys into the creationist fine-tuning argument. I've always been completely bewildered by the fact that any non-theists think that this argument need be taken seriously.
 
By the way, this view of personal identity is also the only way to counter the fine-tuning argument for creationism.

The only way?

I guess it depends on how seriously one buys into the creationist fine-tuning argument. I've always been completely bewildered by the fact that any non-theists think that this argument need be taken seriously.

I should rephrase it: it's the only way the multiple-universes rebuttal to the fine-tuning argument makes any sense.
 
By the way, this view of personal identity is also the only way to counter the fine-tuning argument for creationism.

The usual response to that argument is to posit a multiverse of randomly varying universes, each with different physical constants and forces, etc. This would almost guarantee that a universe such as ours would emerge by chance. But this argument is not sufficient, because it still cannot explain why THIS universe has such features. If it did not, we would not be here to wonder about it, goes the refrain...
Why does the second part remain a problem with a multiverse? And how does this identity argument solve the problem?


As for the other conversation, the universal "me" patches up some problems, but I still see there being a subjective me. A finite me seems to occupy the pressent with or without the "universal me".

More importantly and specifically, why is the universal me not conscious to other memories? This universal me is only being shown Ryan's memories but nobody else's, why?
 
By the way, this view of personal identity is also the only way to counter the fine-tuning argument for creationism.

The usual response to that argument is to posit a multiverse of randomly varying universes, each with different physical constants and forces, etc. This would almost guarantee that a universe such as ours would emerge by chance. But this argument is not sufficient, because it still cannot explain why THIS universe has such features. If it did not, we would not be here to wonder about it, goes the refrain...
Why does the second part remain a problem with a multiverse? And how does this identity argument solve the problem?

I think I explained it pretty thoroughly in my earlier post in the part after what you quoted, which aspect is confusing to you? Think of the example of flipping a coin to escape from prison. If you have to get heads 1,000 times in a row (which represents this universe having the right properties for intelligent life purely by chance), the likelihood of doing so would be incredibly low even if there were billions of other prisoners attempting the same thing in parallel (which represents all the other bubbles in the multiverse with random properties). Other people doing the same thing would increase the probability that SOMEONE would win, but that's not important to YOU; in order to escape prison (in order to actually exist), YOU have to get 1,000 heads in a row. Unless universalism is true, in which case whoever wins would simply be you anyway (which means, whichever universe ends up generating intelligent life, you would be in that universe).

As for the other conversation, the universal "me" patches up some problems, but I still see there being a subjective me. A finite me seems to occupy the pressent with or without the "universal me".

More importantly and specifically, why is the universal me not conscious to other memories? This universal me is only being shown Ryan's memories but nobody else's, why?

You're still not getting the substance of what is being said. There is no "somebody else"! They are all me. As I keep saying, from the perspective of each organism, only the contents that are presented through the sensory machinery of each one appear to be contained in my experience. So, from the perspective of Ryan, only the experiences (and memories) that are associated with the brain of that particular organism are presented with the immediacy that indicates they are my experiences. And so on for all the other conscious beings. But I am all of them, so I am being shown all of their memories, right now. The illusion of being just one of them is powerful, but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
 
I disagree. Would you say that I am you without the memories?
You are you’re memories and special wiring of your brain.

Suppose you were kidnapped by a mad scientist. He tells you that he is about to perform a series of invasive experiments on you without your consent and without anesthesia. You immediately recoil in anticipation of the horrible things you imagine him doing to you! But then he gets more specific: the first thing he will do is rewire your brain so that your current memories and personality will be lost, and then he will start prying off your fingernails and sticking needles in your eyelids. You sigh in relief at this information, knowing that the person whose fingernails and eyelids will be tortured will have different memories and brain wiring than you, so you have no reason to anticipate going through such agony. Is this an accurate representation of your view so far?

Then, suppose he tells you that he has created an exact replica of your current body and brain, and the replica is strapped to a gurney in the adjacent lab. While he's busy performing his painful manipulations on you (after rewiring your brain), his assistant will be performing the same sorts of experiments on your replica in the adjacent room, but WITHOUT having rewired its brain. Since there will now be a person with your memories and brain wiring that experiences the torture of being operated on while wide awake--even though this person has a different body and is in a different location than you now--you again are filled with dread for the ensuing experience! Am I still accurately reflecting your views?

I suppose that what matters here is the subjective experiencing of the pain. So the question implicit in your piece here is who is going to do the experiencing in the various scenarios your proposing.

My view is that, as far as I can tell, my subjective experience comes with my body. If somebody somehow removes all my memories about myself, I will still feel the pain inflicted to my body but I wouldn't feel any dread about the prospect of pain inflicted to my clone or replica.

Not that we could put that to the test, though, so it's a bit academic. Still, it's a very good thought-experiment, I think.
EB
 
You keep forgetting about "mirror cells" speakpigeon.

No, I certainly wouldn't.

I learnt we had them maybe thirty years ago and I thought at the time that it made sense.

They're probably the reason why I feel for you each time you miss the point.

Which appears to be the case here. You seem to miss the distinction between actually experiencing physical pain and the kind of feeling we may have watching somebody in pain. Personally, if I had to choose, I'd rather be in the latter situation.
EB
 
Personally, if I had to choose, I'd rather be in the latter situation.
EB

Generally speaking so would I.

It's just that when I feel your pain -Thank you William Jefferson Clinton - I could have avoided that had I only not mbbe so interested in your well being. Ans that seems to be the point of distinction between us. I can't disassociate myself from feeling feeling your pain because I'm built that way.
 
Suppose you were kidnapped by a mad scientist. He tells you that he is about to perform a series of invasive experiments on you without your consent and without anesthesia. You immediately recoil in anticipation of the horrible things you imagine him doing to you! But then he gets more specific: the first thing he will do is rewire your brain so that your current memories and personality will be lost, and then he will start prying off your fingernails and sticking needles in your eyelids. You sigh in relief at this information, knowing that the person whose fingernails and eyelids will be tortured will have different memories and brain wiring than you, so you have no reason to anticipate going through such agony. Is this an accurate representation of your view so far?

Then, suppose he tells you that he has created an exact replica of your current body and brain, and the replica is strapped to a gurney in the adjacent lab. While he's busy performing his painful manipulations on you (after rewiring your brain), his assistant will be performing the same sorts of experiments on your replica in the adjacent room, but WITHOUT having rewired its brain. Since there will now be a person with your memories and brain wiring that experiences the torture of being operated on while wide awake--even though this person has a different body and is in a different location than you now--you again are filled with dread for the ensuing experience! Am I still accurately reflecting your views?

I suppose that what matters here is the subjective experiencing of the pain. So the question implicit in your piece here is who is going to do the experiencing in the various scenarios your proposing.

My view is that, as far as I can tell, my subjective experience comes with my body. If somebody somehow removes all my memories about myself, I will still feel the pain inflicted to my body but I wouldn't feel any dread about the prospect of pain inflicted to my clone or replica.

Not that we could put that to the test, though, so it's a bit academic. Still, it's a very good thought-experiment, I think.
EB

I share your intuition, but I want to suggest that it is the product of a perspective illusion. When you reflect on it, how do you know that a pain is yours? Do you look down at yourself to check that it's happening to a certain body that you call yours? If you felt a pain and, upon checking your body, found that it was the body of a female in her late teens, would the pain be any less yours? It would not. What makes an experience yours is the quality of immediacy that accompanies it, the sense that it is happening "from the inside". That's it. But all experience, everywhere, has with it this quality of immediacy. So, it must be merely an incidental fact about brain physiology that within each brain, you are only presented in the immediate and first-person way the sensations that are currently being processed by that brain. It's simply a peculiarity of physics and biology that brains cannot directly integrate each other's content unless they are connected in some way (just as the hemispheres of a single brain cannot integrate one another's content if the connection between them is severed, but this does not make each hemisphere a distinct person). My proposal is that this lack of integration should be treated as irrelevant to which experiences count as yours, and thus who counts as you.
 
I would like to add onto this that universalism about personal identity is also the only way to avoid Cartesian dualism in the following scenario:

Recall that without the connecting fibers between the left and right hemispheres of a single brain, each hemisphere's experience will fall prey to the illusion of being the entirety of that person's experience. Restoring the connection, if that were possible, would make it immediately clear that both experiences were happening to the same person. Someday, it might be possible to integrate many brains together in the same way that the hemispheres of a single brain are integrated. What would that experience would be like, and who would be having that experience?

I think the second question is much easier than the first! If my brain were connected to 10 others in such a way, how could I fail to experience whatever would happen next? And, since all of the sensory information would be shared among all the brains, there would be nothing "missing" from my experience that would differentiate me from the owners of the other 10 brains, so I would have to conclude that I was simply the same person as all of them. I don't think there's any way to maintain that I became the same person as them due to the connection (what happened to the individual persons that existed beforehand?), so I must have been the same person all along.

But later on, if the connection were deactivated, which of them would "I" return to? It's tempting to think I would just experience being a lone brain again (and maybe the same one I thought was my "only" brain before the linking with the other 10), but that would imply something like a soul, a ghost-in-the-machine that hops into a swimming pool with some other souls and then hops out, making sure not to hop into the "wrong" one. That can't be the case. It must be true, then, that I would still be "in" all of the brains, and since this couldn't be the result of linking them together (or else we're back into some kind of weird mental essence being spread around), it must have always been this way. In summary, the only way to avoid naive Cartesian dualism about the mind is to recognize that I am the same person as anyone who has an experience I would regard as first-person if our brains were appropriately integrated.
 
I share your intuition, but I want to suggest that it is the product of a perspective illusion. When you reflect on it, how do you know that a pain is yours? Do you look down at yourself to check that it's happening to a certain body that you call yours? If you felt a pain and, upon checking your body, found that it was the body of a female in her late teens, would the pain be any less yours? It would not. What makes an experience yours is the quality of immediacy that accompanies it, the sense that it is happening "from the inside". That's it. But all experience, everywhere, has with it this quality of immediacy. So, it must be merely an incidental fact about brain physiology that within each brain, you are only presented in the immediate and first-person way the sensations that are currently being processed by that brain. It's simply a peculiarity of physics and biology that brains cannot directly integrate each other's content unless they are connected in some way (just as the hemispheres of a single brain cannot integrate one another's content if the connection between them is severed,

I agree that it's at least a reasonable possibility, although obviously I don't actually know, nor do you, that there's isn't a more substantial relation between brain and subjective experience than the one you suggest.

but this does not make each hemisphere a distinct person).

Not a different person but only because the concept of a person is essentially a social construct and one essentially grounded on the body and in this case there's still apparently just one body, ergo one person too, as far as other people can see.

My proposal is that this lack of integration should be treated as irrelevant to which experiences count as yours, and thus who counts as you.

I will go back on this idea that what matters here is the experiencing. I suspect that a split brain gives rise inevitably to two separate experiences. So not two different persons but two different experiences, at least because there will be two disconnected minds to be experienced.

Obviously, I wouldn't know this for a fact but that's what seems reasonable to me.

And I don't think it's so very different from what you say.
EB
 
Not a different person but only because the concept of a person is essentially a social construct and one essentially grounded on the body and in this case there's still apparently just one body, ergo one person too, as far as other people can see.

If you mean that the concept of a person is colored by our perception of there being multiple autonomous organisms roaming around, I agree. But the concept itself has a meaning that is not socially constructed. In this case, it means the same subject is experiencing the mutually exclusive sensations produced in each hemisphere--even assuming the ordinary interpretation of subjects--because otherwise we have to resort to positing a mental substance that splits and merges in order to keep track of a disparate subject over time. Most people are comfortable with this conclusion as it applies to split-brain patients, but fail to realize that it also implies that the same is true of individual organisms.

I will go back on this idea that what matters here is the experiencing. I suspect that a split brain gives rise inevitably to two separate experiences. So not two different persons but two different experiences, at least because there will be two disconnected minds to be experienced.

Obviously, I wouldn't know this for a fact but that's what seems reasonable to me.

And I don't think it's so very different from what you say.
EB

It's exactly what I'm saying, in fact. If there can be two separate experiences that are never integrated, never causally connected to each other, always experienced as being the only one that belongs to me, and yet both experiences are still mine, then there can be no grounds to dispute that a given experience is mine on the grounds of any of these factors. If there can be two minds in one brain, and both are me, than any mind must be me.
 
I would like to add onto this that universalism about personal identity is also the only way to avoid Cartesian dualism in the following scenario:

I'm comfortable with the idea of some kind of dualism, although not with Descartes'.

Recall that without the connecting fibers between the left and right hemispheres of a single brain, each hemisphere's experience will fall prey to the illusion of being the entirety of that person's experience.

In this case, there are effectively two disconnected, and therefore different, minds to be experienced. Yes, one person, but that's not essential to how the split brain is experienced.

There's no illusion. Each brain will have its own distinct mind, and each mind will have its own idea of what person it is, and I think we can assume those two ideas would be substantially different, for example in terms of perception or in terms of memory etc.

Restoring the connection, if that were possible, would make it immediately clear that both experiences were happening to the same person. Someday, it might be possible to integrate many brains together in the same way that the hemispheres of a single brain are integrated. What would that experience would be like, and who would be having that experience?

Yeah, I already discussed this.

Initially, I suspect that each of the two reconnected halves of the brain will still have its own distinct self. All you'll have will be a very confused individual requiring time to reconstruct his one self.

I think the second question is much easier than the first! If my brain were connected to 10 others in such a way, how could I fail to experience whatever would happen next? And, since all of the sensory information would be shared among all the brains, there would be nothing "missing" from my experience that would differentiate me from the owners of the other 10 brains, so I would have to conclude that I was simply the same person as all of them. I don't think there's any way to maintain that I became the same person as them due to the connection (what happened to the individual persons that existed beforehand?), so I must have been the same person all along.

I think that where you go wrong is when you try to maintain the fiction of personhood as one entity existing at different, successive moments in time. That's your illusion, because there is in fact no such entity. The only sense of being a person is through our sense of self, which is itself essentially whatever memorised biographical data you remember. So, in effect, we are something else at every moment in time because our biographical data cannot possibly stay the same. But there is usually broad continuity in our biography, enough of it at least, to support our notion of being the same person, but that doesn't make us the same thing as what we were a moment ago. Again, personhood has essentially a social utility so it's no surprise that we should want to stick to it as something essential. But it's only essential to our social life. It's not fundamental. I will be whatever person comes out of the biographical data I can remember.

Again, I think there's not much difference between us. Essentially, I locate all the me-ness in the self, i.e. essentially the remembered biographical data. I see experience as entirely impersonal, entirely lacking personhood, entirely lacking me-ness. It's a blank screen on which the brain project our self.

But later on, if the connection were deactivated, which of them would "I" return to? It's tempting to think I would just experience being a lone brain again (and maybe the same one I thought was my "only" brain before the linking with the other 10), but that would imply something like a soul, a ghost-in-the-machine that hops into a swimming pool with some other souls and then hops out, making sure not to hop into the "wrong" one. That can't be the case. It must be true, then, that I would still be "in" all of the brains, and since this couldn't be the result of linking them together (or else we're back into some kind of weird mental essence being spread around), it must have always been this way. In summary, the only way to avoid naive Cartesian dualism about the mind is to recognize that I am the same person as anyone who has an experience I would regard as first-person if our brains were appropriately integrated.

Once the connection is removed, we're back to what we were previously, essentially each one feeling being a distinct person. And that would be an accurate perception. The difficulty would be in reconciling the person now and the person while these people were all connected. There's a serious discontinuity there, one I suspect would cause serious psychological difficulties for all those concerned.

So, I guess I assume a form of dualism, i.e. experience and minds. Experience would work relative to minds (or relative to brains) as space works relative to objects. So no big metaphysical problem there I think.
EB
 
Speakpigeon said:
I think that where you go wrong is when you try to maintain the fiction of personhood as one entity existing at different, successive moments in time. That's your illusion, because there is in fact no such entity. The only sense of being a person is through our sense of self, which is itself essentially whatever memorised biographical data you remember.

This is essentially Parfit's view. It implies some of the same things as my view, but has some consequences that don't make sense to me. The ordinary view, the "no such entity" view, and the view I am currently espousing have been termed closed individualism, empty individualism, and open individualism respectively. Under empty individualism, no enduring subject of experience exists for more than a fraction of an instant; there are only slices of time that contain experiences, and these experiences are not happening to anything in any real sense. As such, there is no reason to treat experiences you regard as your own differently from any other experience (open individualism reaches the same conclusion for different reasons). The closest you can get to endurance over time is what you call biography and what Parfit calls psychological connectedness. Your self-interest should apply just to any being that has similar biographical data to you. Yet, in my thought experiment where a mad scientist has set up a clone of your current body and brain in an adjacent room, and plans on torturing him while wiping your brain of all traces of memory, etc., you still maintained that you would not experience what is happening to the clone. That can't be true unless you regard yourself as an enduring subject that exists through time, distinct from other such subjects, including ones that have the same biography as you.
 
I think I explained it pretty thoroughly in my earlier post in the part after what you quoted, which aspect is confusing to you? Think of the example of flipping a coin to escape from prison. If you have to get heads 1,000 times in a row (which represents this universe having the right properties for intelligent life purely by chance), the likelihood of doing so would be incredibly low even if there were billions of other prisoners attempting the same thing in parallel (which represents all the other bubbles in the multiverse with random properties). Other people doing the same thing would increase the probability that SOMEONE would win, but that's not important to YOU; in order to escape prison (in order to actually exist), YOU have to get 1,000 heads in a row. Unless universalism is true, in which case whoever wins would simply be you anyway (which means, whichever universe ends up generating intelligent life, you would be in that universe).

As for the other conversation, the universal "me" patches up some problems, but I still see there being a subjective me. A finite me seems to occupy the pressent with or without the "universal me".

More importantly and specifically, why is the universal me not conscious to other memories? This universal me is only being shown Ryan's memories but nobody else's, why?

You're still not getting the substance of what is being said. There is no "somebody else"! They are all me. As I keep saying, from the perspective of each organism, only the contents that are presented through the sensory machinery of each one appear to be contained in my experience. So, from the perspective of Ryan, only the experiences (and memories) that are associated with the brain of that particular organism are presented with the immediacy that indicates they are my experiences. And so on for all the other conscious beings. But I am all of them, so I am being shown all of their memories, right now. The illusion of being just one of them is powerful, but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Hey, I still plan on responding as this is VERY interesting to me. I am just a little busy and really need to think about this one, so I am just saying that I haven't forgotten and I should have a reply soon.
 
This is essentially Parfit's view. It implies some of the same things as my view, but has some consequences that don't make sense to me. The ordinary view, the "no such entity" view, and the view I am currently espousing have been termed closed individualism, empty individualism, and open individualism respectively. Under empty individualism, no enduring subject of experience exists for more than a fraction of an instant; there are only slices of time that contain experiences, and these experiences are not happening to anything in any real sense. As such, there is no reason to treat experiences you regard as your own differently from any other experience (open individualism reaches the same conclusion for different reasons). The closest you can get to endurance over time is what you call biography and what Parfit calls psychological connectedness. Your self-interest should apply just to any being that has similar biographical data to you. Yet, in my thought experiment where a mad scientist has set up a clone of your current body and brain in an adjacent room, and plans on torturing him while wiping your brain of all traces of memory, etc., you still maintained that you would not experience what is happening to the clone.

Somebody without memory, therefore without any remembered biographical data, therefore without any sense of self, would definitely experience pain inflicted on him. So the remembered biographical data is irrelevant. Pain is only painful when you experience it, and it will be painful irrespective of who you happen to think you are and whether you're right about who you are. I would definitely not experience the pain inflicted on a "duplicate" of me. He would, and he would be the only one to suffer.

Now, I can't possibly know that for a fact. It's just my expectation. And I don't believe we will ever get to experiment with duplicates to test this.

That can't be true unless you regard yourself as an enduring subject that exists through time, distinct from other such subjects, including ones that have the same biography as you.

It is my own self which regards itself as enduring. It's not something amenable to rationalisation. I can't argue with my self. It won't listen.

That being said, again, what matters is experience. And experience here and now doesn't care about experience over there or tomorrow. We don't feel the pain we ourselves experienced yesterday and we don't feel the pain being experienced now but somewhere else, i.e. outside our own body. That's just a fact.

And then, you have the mechanisms of the self by which it takes itself to be an entity perduring over time, different from one moment to the next but still essentially the same. And so, as such, it can only dread the prospect of pain. But notice that the self doesn't feel now the pain that will be inflicted on it the next morning. The mechanism is restricted to "dread" about expected future experience, not the actual experiencing itself, even in case of actual pain inflicted in the future.

So, essentially, we may agree on the fact that experience is in itself, forgetting the specific of the selves, the same irrespective of the person. But I don't want to call "me" the experience of other people, just as I don't want to call "here" the different places where other people are located, even though we're all supposed to be located on strictly identical expenses of three-dimensional space. So, maybe the difference is that I see experience as analogous to space, rather than some unique thing, you want to call "me", experiencing the minds of all creatures in the whole universe (sounds suddenly like the definition of God to me!).

We won't be able to tell who is right, if any.
EB
 
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