The Mental State of the Country

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

So I've been reading things on the Internet, like this forum, for example. I see a lot of hate and a lot of that is related to threads where race is a topic, at least peripherally. Also, I read recently a comment about diversity and being against Nazis by a CEO and the majority of responses online were hateful, even calling for his resignation. I've read also that Trump's supporters are undeterred by all this Nazi business. Trump is not just using the well-oiled machine that was the conservative media, his supporters have an alternative hate-filled reality they can plug into. I am beginning to be worried that this hate and alt-reality being created can find new directions someday.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Why would Trump's supporters be deterred by the Nazi business?

That would be like Lenin's supporters saying "Whoa, dude. I'm seeing that a lot of your policies have bit if a communist influence and that's making me kind of uncomfortable".

This is what Tump ran on. If any of his supporters are shocked, then those supporters are idiots.

 

[Opoponax]

The term "dogwhistle" is appropriate here. Trump said and continues to say certain things that white supremacists happily construe as support for them, e.g. Trump's delay in condemning them tells them those condemnations were done only for political purposes.

At the same time, his supporters who aren't white supremacists can now say that Trump has officially condemned the bad guys, so fuck you snowflake. The question of whether Trump does this by design is immaterial because the effect is the same whether he does it on purpose or if it's a byproduct of his incompetence.

Either way, the right now turns around and whatabouts the hell out of Antifa, an organization with little influence, little history, and almost no identity. It would dry up and blow away upon Trump's demise. Yet in Antifa, conservatives really, really, really want to believe they've found the left's equivalent of the KKK. Of course that's utter shit, but look who the POTUS is. Utter shit is the norm now.

As for Trump supporters online, well, the comments sections of a lot of entities are overwhelmed by fake accounts that claim support for the President. On Facebook I notice that the earliest responses to CNN articles are overwhelmingly by Trump supporters. They seem to have notifications sent to them, whereupon they lay siege to the article almost immediately upon its posting. I don't know what they think this accomplishes, but it sure is annoying.

Anyway, as to the specific mental state of the country, it's sick. We can comfort ourselves all day long that only 30-odd percent of the country is Trump-stupid, but 1) that's a fuck of a lot people, and 2) a person suffering from some form of severe mental psychosis 30-odd percent of the time is a serious danger to himself and others, and likely needs to be institutionalized.

Even if the world were to have the great good luck of a Trump heart attack and subsequent death, Fox News and all of its awful pundits, Rush Limbaugh, Infowars, Breitbart, etc. would all remain to continue to fill the non-critical heads of tens of millions of Americans with dog shit 24/7.

We're so fucked.

 

[dismal]

The term "dogwhistle" is appropriate here.

If you can hear the dogwhistle...you're the dog.

We're so fucked.

Yeah, apparently someone spent the last 2 weeks setting up offensive confederate statues all around the country.

I don't see how we can survive them.

 

[ideologyhunter]

A few days ago, a CNN reporter assembled 6 Trump supporters and asked them about their support for Trump, with an emphasis on Charlottesville. The big takeaway: their news source is Facebook!!! A few of them cited videos they'd seen where paid demonstrators in costume took to the streets. This conspiracy theory mentality is a consistent feature in the 34%. It would seem to be an intractable problem -- they're tuned in only to the sites that confirm what Dear Leader says. When Trump was ranting in Phoenix the other night, and he deliberately changed the transcript of what he'd said THREE DAYS PREVIOUSLY, leaving out the key phrases that got him in trouble -- I wondered, how many people are in that hall? Isn't there ANYONE who realizes what this guy just did to them? The age of the Internet, which is sometimes touted as the great democratization of expression, has become the age of the propagandist.

 

[Malintent]

I don't see how we can survive them.

So that's the bar now... Survival. forget "doing OK".. never mind the possibility of "getting along"... and totally give up on the idea of ever being "fine".

"We Survived!" is the best you can hope for? What a looser-mentality, that would be.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I am more frightened by how people seem to be supporting Trump supporters who clearly are so unbelievably misinformed. I believe these people would do almost anything for Trump, much like other dictators had similar support. Trump supporters are non-partisans, they are much worse than partisans. They believe in Trump as an image.

 

[dismal]

I don't see how we can survive them.

So that's the bar now... Survival. forget "doing OK".. never mind the possibility of "getting along"... and totally give up on the idea of ever being "fine".

"We Survived!" is the best you can hope for? What a looser-mentality, that would be.

Well, I personally plan to get freaked out over one thing or another every two weeks.

This week it's that there are confederate statues everywhere.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

So that's the bar now... Survival. forget "doing OK".. never mind the possibility of "getting along"... and totally give up on the idea of ever being "fine".

"We Survived!" is the best you can hope for? What a looser-mentality, that would be.

Well, I personally plan to get freaked out over one thing or another every two weeks.

This week it's that there are confederate statues everywhere.

Yes, they are. Even Montana had one until last week. Montana didn't exist in 1861, not even as a territory. Pretty freaky.

 

[Opoponax]

If you can hear the dogwhistle...you're the dog.

Thank you for providing what is likely the most useless, facile thing I'll read on this site today.

 

[dismal]

Well, I personally plan to get freaked out over one thing or another every two weeks.

This week it's that there are confederate statues everywhere.

Yes, they are. Even Montana had one until last week. Montana didn't exist in 1861, not even as a territory. Pretty freaky.

I saw they had one in Toronto. Which in 1861 wasn't even part of this country.

Fortunately it's gone now. So we, or perhaps they, can rest a little easier.

 

[ZiprHead]

If you can hear the dogwhistle...you're the dog.

Thank you for providing what is likely the most useless, facile thing I'll read on this site today.

Just doing his job, ma'am.

 

[dismal]

Thank you for providing what is likely the most useless, facile thing I'll read on this site today.

Just doing his job, ma'am.

Actually, "dogs hear it but people don't" is a rather central and important feature of dogwhistles. Indeed it's the defining feature.

If it's a whistle that everyone hears we call it a "whistle".

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If you can hear the dogwhistle...you're the dog.

Thank you for providing what is likely the most useless, facile thing I'll read on this site today.

Some dog whistles are easier to tell. I remember when George W. Bush said he'd support Supreme Court Justices who were against the Dred Scott decision and I was absolutely knocked on the side of the head as to what he was on about... turns out it was a dog whistle against abortion.

But when Trump was rallying about "LAAAAAHHHWWWW and ORDAWWWWWW", that was clearly a dog whistle about blacks who commit crime and how it is just out of control and he'd put an end to it.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

If you can hear the dogwhistle...you're the dog.

We're so fucked.

Yeah, apparently someone spent the last 2 weeks setting up offensive confederate statues all around the country.

I don't see how we can survive them.

Proof the OP is on target.

 

[dismal]

If you can hear the dogwhistle...you're the dog.



Yeah, apparently someone spent the last 2 weeks setting up offensive confederate statues all around the country.

I don't see how we can survive them.

Proof the OP is on target.

Huh? in what way?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I am still amazed that the establishment people in the political parties haven't gotten the crystal clear message that Trump's election was. Trump, THIS GUY, a truly horrible person, defeated all of the republicans in the primary and Clinton in the general.. That should tell them something about how poorly they have been doing for the public at large. Trump, for all he is, still comes across as an outsider and a guy who speaks his (very troubled self absorbed) mind. You do have bigots he appeals to in his base, but much of his support to getting elected was a protest vote. And it seems to have accomplished very little so far in way of people opening their eyes.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I am still amazed that the establishment people in the political parties haven't gotten the crystal clear message that Trump's election was. Trump, THIS GUY, a truly horrible person, defeated all of the republicans in the primary and Clinton in the general.. That should tell them something about how poorly they have been doing for the public at large.

How poorly... or how poorly they've been led to believe. Trump supporters actually believed the economy was worse off in '16 than '08. Nuff said. The message is, the people have been lied to by right-wing media so much, they have no idea what anything actually is. Much like the older conservatives railing about entitlements, but loving Social Security and Medicare.

Trump then gave the simpleton answers to the hard questions. We'll just blame trade deals for the woes of America. Sure, the prices of manufactured goods have crashed so low, but woe is white America. We want cheap goods and high paying manufacturing jobs. Add to that, the 30 years of propaganda against Clinton, and Trump's Cult of Personality, and that is what happened in '16.

 

[Ford]

Either way, the right now turns around and whatabouts the hell out of Antifa, an organization with little influence, little history, and almost no identity. It would dry up and blow away upon Trump's demise. Yet in Antifa, conservatives really, really, really want to believe they've found the left's equivalent of the KKK. Of course that's utter shit, but look who the POTUS is. Utter shit is the norm now.

I like to think that I'm fairly well informed (at least better than the average 'Murican) and I hadn't even heard of Antifa until a Trump-supporting friend on Facebook trotted out the accusation that the Charlottesville attacker was one. This was before law enforcement released the identity of the attacker. Apparently the false accusation came from alt-right sources. I asked my friend for a source. He didn't respond. It wasn't until after the attacker was identified that he retracted his claim, but still didn't provide a source.

Then he posted some odd claim that Jason Kessler - one of the white nationalists behind the rally - was once a CNN journalist and Obama supporter who was involved in Occupy. Again, asked for a source. While waiting, I did some research and couldn't find a source for the story other than whack-job conspiracy/alt-right/white nationalist ones. After repeatedly pressing him for a source, he finally conceded that he could have been wrong about the claim, and said he got it from Twitter. No specifics, just Twitter.

So there's not just an alt-right. There's an alt-reality. An echo chamber of questionable information bypassing reality-based media and being spoon fed right into the minds of these people, who lap it up uncritically.

The latest example is the guy protesting in Phoenix Tuesday night who got hit in the strike zone with a gas grenade. He became a bit of a sensation, and did a Q&A on the Phoenix sub-Reddit. Was he Antifa? No. Was he paid by Soros? No. Was he bused in from another state? No. Yet the very next day what pops up on my Facebook? A meme claiming he was a Soros-paid Antifa agitator bused in to cause trouble.

The alt-reality is real!

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Trump then gave the simpleton answers to the hard questions.

Dave Rubin had a great monologue about this that nailed it perfectly. The country had become so politically polarized that actual discussion could no longer take place. If a reasonable conservative said something liberals don't agree with, they were shouted down or silenced or branded a bigot, etc. So no reasonable conservative could be hard. If a reasonable liberal said something conservatives don't agree with, they were dismissed as snowflakes. So no reasonable liberal could be heard. With no room for actual discussion in the public eye of complicated issues, that only leaves room for the simpleton easy answers of somebody like a Trump.

Just look at any speech by Jordan Peterson or Ben Shapiro, both of whom speak pretty softly and say some interesting things from time to time, even if they are flawed or you strongly disagree. In response you get people shouting and screaming them down with mindless slogans and chants (I've seen reactions to them on here that are similar; rarely addressing anything they actually say). The same happens to Noam Chomsky from the other side. He gets dismissed as a loon by people on the right, without any actual analysis of what he actually says. We need to find a way to have calm point and counterpoint discussions again.