The motive and effect of "Black people can't be racist"

[laughing dog]

Or it's an example of a historically oppressed people taking the terms that have been used to marginalize and degrade them and giving them a new positive spin in order to take control of the terms to empower themselves.

It's one or the other.

And so this is something that all white people should know? Were flyers being passed out in white neighborhoods explaining this? Some of us have a life and don't have time to take an ethnic studies class at night school to learn all the nuances, history and context to safely interact with other races. How about everyone just keep things simple and not use ethnic slurs against other races (or your own).

Its getting to the point where you need a god damn sociology degree to understand and/or not offend people of other races or genders.

Are you serious that you think someone needs a degree to figure out that the terms "nigger" or "nigga" should not be used by white people? Really?

 

[thebeave]

Where you get that? I said just the opposite:

How about everyone just keep things simple and not use ethnic slurs against other races (or your own).

Its getting to the point where you need a god damn sociology degree to understand and/or not offend people of other races or genders.

Emphasis mine. And yes, I was being hyperbolic about the sociology degree reference.

White people shouldn't say nigger (or nigga). Black people shouldn't say nigger (or nigga). Do you agree with this or not?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I think the argument is really moot, because it clearly gives the impression of a false equivalence between the problem of potential or actual black "racism" and white racism towards blacks in the US.

No, it really doesn't. The OP is not complaining about "black racism", much less comparing it to "white racism". It is not downplaying "white racism". It isn't a reaction to any complaint of "white racism" to play down. It is a reaction to somebody who has gone out of their way to claim that "Black people can't be racist".

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Found an article on this topic that makes a few good points, and claims to trace the history of the "Black people can't be racist" rhetoric.

http://www.wetasphalt.com/content/why-racism-prejudice-power-wrong-way-approach-problems-racism

 

[laughing dog]

I think the argument is really moot, because it clearly gives the impression of a false equivalence between the problem of potential or actual black "racism" and white racism towards blacks in the US.

No, it really doesn't. The OP is not complaining about "black racism", much less comparing it to "white racism". It is not downplaying "white racism". It isn't a reaction to any complaint of "white racism" to play down. It is a reaction to somebody who has gone out of their way to claim that "Black people can't be racist".

You missed the point. Why should you care that there are some people who black people can't be "racist"?

 

[laughing dog]

Where you get that? I said just the opposite:
How about everyone just keep things simple and not use ethnic slurs against other races (or your own).

Its getting to the point where you need a god damn sociology degree to understand and/or not offend people of other races or genders.

I got it directly from the 2nd bolded sentence. And you did preface it with "And so this is something that all white people should know? Were flyers being passed out in white neighborhoods explaining this? Some of us have a life and don't have time to take an ethnic studies class at night school to learn all the nuances, history and context to safely interact with other races"

Emphasis mine. And yes, I was being hyperbolic about the sociology degree reference.

White people shouldn't say nigger (or nigga). Black people shouldn't say nigger (or nigga). Do you agree with this or not?

No for a couple of reasons. First, whether I agree or not will not change the reality. Second, while I can understand and appreciate the goal of simplifying life in general, and I don't understand why anyone would use the term "nigger" or "nigga", some people do without insulting each other.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Why should you care that there are some people who black people can't be "racist"?

Because it is false and looks dishonest, so it undermines our credibility when we make honest efforts to defeat racism against black people. Because it is racist. And most of all, because it creates division where unity is needed and resentment where empathy is needed.

 

[thebeave]

Why should you care that there are some people who black people can't be "racist"?

Because it is false and looks dishonest, so it undermines our credibility when we make honest efforts to defeat racism against black people. Because it is racist. And most of all, because it creates division where unity is needed and resentment where empathy is needed.

Well said.

 

[laughing dog]

Why should you care that there are some people who black people can't be "racist"?

Because it is false and looks dishonest, so it undermines our credibility when we make honest efforts to defeat racism against black people.

Except is neither false nor dishonest. Words have different acceptable definitions. Is it false and dishonest to use "bad" to mean something good? You need to explain how it "undermines our credability when we make honest efforts to defeat racism against black people" because it looks like this complaining undermines "your credability when..."

Because it is racist.

Nope.

And most of all, because it creates division where unity is needed and resentment where empathy is needed.

Why?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

And most of all, because it creates division where unity is needed and resentment where empathy is needed.

Division among whom? Why is there resentment over a definition of a word? Is there a need to call black folk racist?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Explained multiple times throughout the thread.

 

[Derec]

Except is neither false nor dishonest. Words have different acceptable definitions.

Except when a particular definition is invented for the sole purpose of defining only white people as "racist".

Division among whom?

Between races. The so-called "modern liberal" approach to race relations has been a disaster.

Why is there resentment over a definition of a word?

Because it has been redefined (in certain circles) solely on order to be able to claim that only white people can be racist.

Is there a need to call black folk racist?

When particular black folk are racist, sure. Al Sharpton is a racist for example. Yet he and other black racists get a pass.

 

[laughing dog]

Explained multiple times throughout the thread.

Sorry but the explanation lacks cogency. Why does such a definition reduce the credibility of those who are working to eliminate white racism?

- - - Updated - - -

Except when a particular definition is invented for the sole purpose of defining only white people as "racist".

That assumes facts not in evidence.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Except when a particular definition is invented for the sole purpose of defining only white people as "racist".

Division among whom?

Between races. The so-called "modern liberal" approach to race relations has been a disaster.

Why is there resentment over a definition of a word?

Because it has been redefined (in certain circles) solely on order to be able to claim that only white people can be racist.

Is there a need to call black folk racist?

When particular black folk are racist, sure. Al Sharpton is a racist for example. Yet he and other black racists get a pass.

I find that there is more division within races over such topics as in the OP than among them. In my experience, most white people will tell you that racism is real and it effects non-white people. And when you have these discussions face to face, a person may not agree with the sentiment "black people can't be racist," but they will say that they can accept that definition as ONE among others in certain circumstances, or for the sake of argument.

Al Sharpton is an opportunist and a comedian. Great on entertainment value, long on playing politics, short on those things that don't benefit Al Sharpton. And Al Sharpton will bluster and bellow, but he will never upset the apple cart, his antics will have no effect on supremacy.

What if only white people can be racist? What happens to the world if every other word that means prejudiced can be used for everyone EXCEPT this one?

 

[PyramidHead]

What if only white people can be racist? What happens to the world if every other word that means prejudiced can be used for everyone EXCEPT this one?

You phrased this as an 'if' statement, so I presume (correct me if I'm mistaken) that you mean this is not the current state of affairs, i.e. most people use the word 'racist' in a way that can be used for everyone. That being the case, why does it need to be changed?

Of course, to answer your question, nothing about the world would be different. People would just have another general word to use when talking about prejudice.

But as it happens, in the actual world, the word most people use for that purpose is 'racist.' So it falls to those who want to introduce a more restrictive connotation to explain why it should be so.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

What if only white people can be racist? What happens to the world if every other word that means prejudiced can be used for everyone EXCEPT this one?

The same thing that happens if the word "fruit" becomes used to only mean "banana". If everyone's using it the same, then it's no problem because it's just a word. If they aren't all using it the same then discussions about fruit become confusing because you have one guy talking about fruit salad and another person saying that it's not fruit salad because it's got some apples and pears and other non-fruits in it.

 

[doubtingt]

What if only white people can be racist?

Then reality would have to be different than it is, because given the current universe, it is an objectively false statement.

In the absence of qualification that it only applies to particular socio-cultural and historical circumstances, you statment implies a fundamental internal difference between the humans categorized as white versus non-white that transcends time, place, context, etc..

If non-whites can in principle be racist, assuming different historical circumstances, then the statement is false. It is only true if racism is a trait inherent to "whteness" and thus under no possible circumstances would non-whites be able to be racist. Which, ironically, is itself a racist claim.

If, as your other posts argued, you want to reserve "racism" for societal structures, then no person, white or non-white, can be a racist because it is not a property that a person can have. Rather it is only a property applicable to social infrastructure. At most, you might say that "Only whites benefit for (structural) racism", which is a different from whites being racist as the claim "I am sitting in a chair" is from "I am a chair". And even that statement about benefits is not actually true, unless it limits the difference to the current context and allows for blacks to have done and be doing what whites currently are, if various mostly random historical contingencies had played out differently (unless you want to claim that blacks and whites are inherently different in their fundamental psychological nature.

 

[crispy]

What if only white people can be racist? What happens to the world if every other word that means prejudiced can be used for everyone EXCEPT this one?

I have never heard anyone say that only white people can be labeled racist. Why would you want to redefine the meaning of the word? It makes absolutely no sense. I hear you, white racism has much larger consequences here in the western world than other forms of racism because it is actually white people in power. But so what? That doesnt change the meaning of the word.

I guess that if some white racist moved to china he would no longer be racist because he has no power there

Im just.. I dont get it...

What if only white people can be racist? What happens to the world if every other word that means prejudiced can be used for everyone EXCEPT this one?

Also prejudice != racism.

 

[Malintent]

What if only white people can be racist? What happens to the world if every other word that means prejudiced can be used for everyone EXCEPT this one?

I have never heard anyone say that only white people can be labeled racist. Why would you want to redefine the meaning of the word? It makes absolutely no sense. I hear you, white racism has much larger consequences here in the western world than other forms of racism because it is actually white people in power. But so what? That doesnt change the meaning of the word.

I guess that if some white racist moved to china he would no longer be racist because he has no power there

Im just.. I dont get it...

It is because, as I said earlier, that this entire concept is born of "black people are not racist when they use the N-word". Any extension of the "...cant be racist.." statement beyond that is a misunderstanding. It is not that complicated.

Now, if ya'll want to have a conversation about "racist affirmative action", whereby black people are ALLOWED to be racist, because, come on, give me a break... that is another dialog entierly, and not the same thing as "this isn't racist".

 

[crispy]

I have never heard anyone say that only white people can be labeled racist. Why would you want to redefine the meaning of the word? It makes absolutely no sense. I hear you, white racism has much larger consequences here in the western world than other forms of racism because it is actually white people in power. But so what? That doesnt change the meaning of the word.

I guess that if some white racist moved to china he would no longer be racist because he has no power there

Im just.. I dont get it...

It is because, as I said earlier, that this entire concept is born of "black people are not racist when they use the N-word". Any extension of the "...cant be racist.." statement beyond that is a misunderstanding. It is not that complicated.

Now, if ya'll want to have a conversation about "racist affirmative action", whereby black people are ALLOWED to be racist, because, come on, give me a break... that is another dialog entierly, and not the same thing as "this isn't racist".

So you and Athena are not actually arguing that only white people can be racist?