The objective mind

[DBT]

I met a few in my life, yes. And you're not one of them.

I know a few things.

Like real completed infinities are absurdities.

They are not something that is possible.

Have you considered the possibility of being wrong?

That what you think you know to be true, may not be true?

 

[Speakpigeon]

I met a few in my life, yes. And you're not one of them.

I know a few things.

Like real completed infinities are absurdities.

They are not something that is possible.

Something you know?! That's absurd.

You just happen to be incapable of rationally thinking about infinities. And you mistake your inability for a fixture of the world, which is in itself a metaphysical belief and as such contradict directly your stated position about the mind. So you're just profoundly irrational. What you say is illogical and you've always been unable to provide any rational justification for your claims despite being called to do so in hundreds of posts throughout the years! It's just fantastic.
EB

 

[untermensche]

I met a few in my life, yes. And you're not one of them.

I know a few things.

Like real completed infinities are absurdities.

They are not something that is possible.

Have you considered the possibility of being wrong?

That what you think you know to be true, may not be true?

I know what is true in some cases. I know it beyond doubt.

Like I know I MUST first do something with my mind to make the arm move the way I choose for it to move.

Like a real completed infinity is an absurdity.

No such thing is possible.

You can never turn over infinite cards. The task can never end.

You cannot hold infinite marbles. They will not fit in infinite universes. They will not fit anywhere.

That should be enough for a mind that thinks.

- - - Updated - - -

I met a few in my life, yes. And you're not one of them.

I know a few things.

Like real completed infinities are absurdities.

They are not something that is possible.

Something you know?! That's absurd.

You just happen to be incapable of rationally thinking about infinities. And you mistake your inability for a fixture of the world, which is in itself a metaphysical belief and as such contradict directly your stated position about the mind. So you're just profoundly irrational. What you say is illogical and you've always been unable to provide any rational justification for your claims despite being called to do so in hundreds of posts throughout the years! It's just fantastic.
EB

What a laugh.

Thanks a lot.

You are the dimwit that thinks that calling infinite elements a set changes the nature of the elements.

I rarely run into such utter stupidity!

 

[Speakpigeon]

What a laugh.

Thanks a lot.

You are the dimwit that thinks that calling infinite elements a set changes the nature of the elements.

You should try arguing your case for a change.

I rarely run into such utter stupidity!

Look thyself into a mirror. Mark 5:12

EB

 

[untermensche]

No no no.

There is nothing more dumb than calling infinite elements a set and thinking you have changed anything about the nature of the elements.

 

[Speakpigeon]

No no no.

There is nothing more dumb than calling infinite elements a set and thinking you have changed anything about the nature of the elements.

So your rationality reduces to the word "dumb". You ask us to believe you on trust when you claim to know the truth because you can't get yourself to articulate any rational explanation to support your claims. Since you won't convince anyone with a non-existing argument, you need us to believe you on trust.
EB

 

[DBT]

Have you considered the possibility of being wrong?

That what you think you know to be true, may not be true?

I know what is true in some cases. I know it beyond doubt.

Like I know I MUST first do something with my mind to make the arm move the way I choose for it to move.

Yet you ignore the process of information acquisition via the senses, transmission and processing of information between the neural networks and structures of the brain prior to your conscious experience of moving at will.

You ignore all the things that shape and form your experience.

You ignore everything that does not suit your beliefs.

 

[untermensche]

Have you considered the possibility of being wrong?

That what you think you know to be true, may not be true?

I know what is true in some cases. I know it beyond doubt.

Like I know I MUST first do something with my mind to make the arm move the way I choose for it to move.

Yet you ignore the process of information acquisition via the senses, transmission and processing of information between the neural networks and structures of the brain prior to your conscious experience of moving at will.

You ignore all the things that shape and form your experience.

You ignore everything that does not suit your beliefs.

I ignore nothing.

Science has nothing to say about it.

Science does not have a clue what the objective mind even is no less what it can do.

 

[DBT]

Yet you ignore the process of information acquisition via the senses, transmission and processing of information between the neural networks and structures of the brain prior to your conscious experience of moving at will.

You ignore all the things that shape and form your experience.

You ignore everything that does not suit your beliefs.

I ignore nothing.

Science has nothing to say about it.

Science does not have a clue what the objective mind even is no less what it can do.

Objective mind?

 

[untermensche]

Yeah.

The name of the thread you are in on post #429.

Nice to know you have actually cared about the topic.

The subjective mind is beyond examination.

By it's nature it cannot be observed by any external observer or my any external device.

It is individual and unique.

In many it is disturbed and bothered by what we call psychological problems. In some it is not bothered so much.

From some minds great works of art flow.

But all that could possibly be seen and examined is the objective mind.

The objective mind is the specific activity that gives rise to the subjective mind.

 

[Speakpigeon]

The objective mind is the specific activity that gives rise to the subjective mind.

Right, that's something we all know:

What is the objective mind?

What the brain and all the little squiggly neurons do.
Done.
EB

Hey, even scientists know it.

So, what's your contribution to the question?

Oh yeah, "The objective mind is the specific activity that gives rise to the subjective mind".

Great, very impressive.
EB

 

[untermensche]

Right, that's something we all know:...

OK.

Then tell me about the specific activity, possibly in the brain, that gives rise to the mind. What is it?

Since this is all so trivial and you know it all already.

 

[DBT]

The objective mind is the specific activity that gives rise to the subjective mind.

Sorry, that still doesn't make sense. You still haven't explained what this specific activity that is 'objective mind' is, or how it gives rise to the 'subjective mind'

 

[untermensche]

The objective mind is the specific activity that gives rise to the subjective mind.

Sorry, that still doesn't make sense. You still haven't explained what this specific activity that is 'objective mind' is, or how it gives rise to the 'subjective mind'

I have said that the specific activity is not known.

Many many times.

When it is known the mind can be studied scientifically.

Until then what is studied are physiological correlations to subjective reports, not the mind.

 

[DBT]

The objective mind is the specific activity that gives rise to the subjective mind.

Sorry, that still doesn't make sense. You still haven't explained what this specific activity that is 'objective mind' is, or how it gives rise to the 'subjective mind'

I have said that the specific activity is not known.

Many many times.

When it is known the mind can be studied scientifically.

Until then what is studied are physiological correlations to subjective reports, not the mind.

So you have nothing.

No explanations, no research, no experiments, no results, no evidence, your claims have no foundation (subjective experience alone being insufficient).

You are just making claims, saying whatever happens to appeal to your desires, even while ignoring actual research, actual experiments, actual evidence that goes against your beliefs.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

There is a huge separation between brain and activity.

There is no separation. Brain activity is activity performed by a brain in relation to its evolved function of acquiring information and responding to that information in both unconscious and conscious ways, regulating bodily functions, responding to external events, generating thoughts, feelings and actions.

They are two completely different things.

Nope, the composition of an active brain includes electrical and chemical activity, chemical signals, ion flow/impulse transmission of information.

The brain can be held and weighed.

Irrelevant for the reasons given above; information content/processing activity.

While I have some sympathy for your position, it does seem an important point here that words are not the things they represent. "This is not a pipe"

 

[Speakpigeon]

Right, that's something we all know:...

OK.

Then tell me about the specific activity, possibly in the brain, that gives rise to the mind. What is it?

Since this is all so trivial and you know it all already.

Derail.

Start a new thread if you want to know what people think of this new question.
EB

 

[untermensche]

I have said that the specific activity is not known.

Many many times.

When it is known the mind can be studied scientifically.

Until then what is studied are physiological correlations to subjective reports, not the mind.

So you have nothing.

No explanations, no research, no experiments, no results, no evidence, your claims have no foundation (subjective experience alone being insufficient).

You are just making claims, saying whatever happens to appeal to your desires, even while ignoring actual research, actual experiments, actual evidence that goes against your beliefs.

You have nothing about the objective mind either.

I have said it for years and you still don't get it.

You can't make any claims about the objective mind without even knowing what it is.

All you can do is examine experience and try to explain it.

Like the universal and constant experience of willfully moving the body with the mind.

This can only be explained scientifically when there is a scientific understanding of the objective mind.

But to deny it has to be explained is wilful ignorance.

And no opinion that matters can be made with a mind that is not autonomous.

 

[untermensche]

Right, that's something we all know:...

OK.

Then tell me about the specific activity, possibly in the brain, that gives rise to the mind. What is it?

Since this is all so trivial and you know it all already.

Derail.

Start a new thread if you want to know what people think of this new question.
EB

It is the topic of this thread!!

The ignorance is so deep there is no air to breath.

 

[Speakpigeon]

Derail.

Start a new thread if you want to know what people think of this new question.
EB

It is the topic of this thread!!

The ignorance is so deep there is no air to breath.

Me, I couldn't tell, I'm no specialist of the brain but I'm sure nobody knows as of last week. I'm quite sure the part of our mind which can report it is subjectively conscious is supported by some specific parts of the brain, while other parts support the part of our mind which either is unconscious or can't report it is conscious. For instance, a logical intuition I may have will be conscious and as such should be correlated with a specific activity in my brain, while the process to produce the same intuition would be at least apparently unconscious and should certainly be correlated with the activity of a different part of my brain. This seems to go without saying but it's also clear there's no scientific confirmation of this. And this doesn't say much since the subjectively conscious parts and the unconscious parts of our brain might well be so closely integrated together that imaging in a distinctive way the different parts might be beyond our capabilities today and perhaps for quite some time. Still, I wouldn't bet on the impossibility of doing it one day. You just need to be very patient.
EB